2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[mvossman]

If we want to lean into this team's current identity and get some depth in our front court, then a name that I think needs to be talked about more is PJ Washington.  

He's been on the trade block already because the Hornets have to pay Bridges and is basically a Maxi clone.  He is also probably gettable without giving up anyone in our current playoff rotation and without giving up significant draft assets.

I'm guessing he would require our first, but I would do that for a young rotation C who is still developing and would completely fit our model.

[Kammrath]

One of the best things about a deep playoff run is the perception of your players and their talent goes up, sometimes pretty significantly. Nico will now have the benefit of other teams perceiving the Mavs having a glut of talent on their team and their players should become more desirable than they were.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

One of the best things about a deep playoff run is the perception of your players and their talent goes up, sometimes pretty significantly. Nico will now have the benefit of other teams perceiving the Mavs having a glut of talent on their team and their players should become more desirable than they were.

But the talent level here is not perception, it's reality and we need to keep that in mind when we talk about trading players like Maxi.

[vfromlmf]

Luka is on our team but if you guys are watching what's happening in the East you'll see Tatum doing similar things. Mavs and Celtics are playing very similar basketball, exploiting bigs and putting the opposition in the blender on every single possession.

The Bucks have a 7 foot MVP and Brook Lopez was beasting, doing big man stuff. Offensive rebounds, layups, dunks. Boston just didn't have enough size to match up and one can imagine they would dominate the Mavs too. Conventional wisdom says Dallas needs a big to neutralize big physically dominant centers. 

But Boston stuck with a front court of 6' 9" Horford and a 6' 6" wing who can shoot and won by 30. Why wouldn't the Mavs just do the same thing with the guys who are already on the roster? I mean, Dallas just did this to the Suns with three big centers and won by damn near 40.

Look, I'm all for adding "another Kleber" I just don't know who that is. Horford maybe?

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

I'm guessing he would require our first, but I would do that for a young rotation C who is still developing and would completely fit our model.

I think I would too with this year's pick unless there was someone there that we realllllly want like Mark Williams.  My pipe dream would be the Hornet going for Josh Green and a couple seconds and then using our first on a rim runner/rim protector.

[Kammrath]

But the talent level here is not perception, it's reality

This is THE great debate (and why I opened the "coaching or talent?" thread). 

I have heard for YEARS from this very board about how talent starved the Mavs are. Die-hard fans, who watch every game telling me how terrible Donnie/Cuban had been with talent acquisition. 

Now suddenly that has changed? 


My personal take:

• The Mavs of the Luka-era have always been MORE talented than most fans have realized (I know it's not a popular opinion, but I was a believer that RC was underachieving his talent most years and can point to old posts saying exactly that). 
  
• However, I DO think the Mavs are overachieving right now being in the WCF and still have significant ways to improve the roster talent.
  
• The roster talent was never as bad as guys were saying. But it also isn't as good as some guys are saying now that the Mavs have beaten PHX. I don't think the roster is good enough to just "stand pat" and "bring back the gang." 
  

[sterlingmallory]

At this point my offseason plan is resign Brunson, draft the best player available and keep developing Green & Ntilikina. Maybe you offload some salary and add another versatile wing defender like Taurean Prince, but I'm honestly curious how THJ will look when he comes back. He'll fit into the five-out concept perfectly if he just commits to the defensive end and knocks down open threes.

Agreed on this. I was one of the people that wanted to trade for Turner at the deadline and I will admit I was wrong about that. Totally agree we should not spend any significant assets on a center. I would like to find a way to get a Steven Adams type center for cheap just to have some depth and save wear and tear on the core guys during the regular season, but I am fully on board with the 5 out concept come playoff time. 

The priorities for me are re-sign Brunson, get another wing in the DFS/Bullock mold, see what you can get for THJ, and grab a regular season rotation big for cheap.

Whatever we do we have to lean into this identity we created, that means surrounding Luka with playmakers and switchable defensive wings/bigs that can spread the floor.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

I don't think the roster is good enough to just "stand pat" and "bring back the gang."

No roster ever is but we sure seem to have the talent to get us to the conference finals and potentially beyond.  I just would think it's clear now that we need to be adding pieces to this core as opposed to swapping them.  Not a lot of assets to do that but making lateral moves while we reload assets is a pretty ok move from where I'm sitting currently.

[mvossman]

Agreed on this. I was one of the people that wanted to trade for Turner at the deadline and I will admit I was wrong about that. Totally agree we should not spend any significant assets on a center. I would like to find a way to get a Steven Adams type center for cheap just to have some depth and save wear and tear on the core guys during the regular season, but I am fully on board with the 5 out concept come playoff time. 

The priorities for me are re-sign Brunson, get another wing in the DFS/Bullock mold, see what you can get for THJ, and grab a regular season rotation big for cheap.

Whatever we do we have to lean into this identity we created, that means surrounding Luka with playmakers and switchable defensive wings/bigs that can spread the floor.

I don't think you are going to be successful with a 5 out having Luka or Dorian as your center for significant minutes.  The teams that have done that really well have an elite defensive small ball center (Draymond for GS).  Maxi has been our guy in that roll, but I'm not sure it is a good plan count on playing him 35 minutes a game next post season.

[michaeltex]

The Warriors won 63 games and added Kevin Durant the next year. It's never the wrong time to think about getting better.

This was more about KD's frustration with OKC management and deciding to ring chase with a better team. GSW had just lost to CLE in the finals, blowing a 3-1 lead, and felt like they needed more against LBJ and Kyrie and was excited to add KD's skill set (who wouldn't). 

Getting better is often finding players you can use in an existing scheme rather than finding a player you have to build a scheme around. What we are seeing in DAL is the growth of a philosophy and team culture that will determine who best fits when looking to upgrade talent.

[loki]

Even if the Mavs win the title I think they should be looking to add a major piece in the offseason. If they explore all avenues and can't find the right move....fine, I get it. Try to add some depth and then be happy. But I don't see a reason to go into the offseason with that as Plan A. 

Other teams are getting much better. The Clippers and Nuggets will be healthy again. Memphis, Minnesota, and Golden State all have a ton of young talent that will be improving. The West is going to be a bloodbath next year, and if you're not moving forward you could easily be passed up.

[michaeltex]

The roster talent was never as bad as guys were saying. But it also isn't as good as some guys are saying now that the Mavs have beaten PHX. I don't think the roster is good enough to just "stand pat" and "bring back the gang." 

I agree that there is room for improvement, if for no other reason that players age and lose effectiveness. Not too much of an issue with the current roster, but some are now 30+. Of course, there was this German player that was pretty effective in his 30s.


I also think you make considered moves, not just stirring the pot. I'm hoping the new MBT are better evaluators. With the developing culture, they should have more of a fit idea than just signing a body and hoping it works.

[SkenfromLMF]

This is THE great debate (and why I opened the "coaching or talent?" thread). 

I have heard for YEARS from this very board about how talent starved the Mavs are. Die-hard fans, who watch every game telling me how terrible Donnie/Cuban had been with talent acquisition. 

Now suddenly that has changed? 


My personal take:

• The Mavs of the Luka-era have always been MORE talented than most fans have realized (I know it's not a popular opinion, but I was a believer that RC was underachieving his talent most years and can point to old posts saying exactly that). 
  
• However, I DO think the Mavs are overachieving right now being in the WCF and still have significant ways to improve the roster talent.
  
• The roster talent was never as bad as guys were saying. But it also isn't as good as some guys are saying now that the Mavs have beaten PHX. I don't think the roster is good enough to just "stand pat" and "bring back the gang." 
  

I think the challenge is how does this team add talent greater than THJ?
It either comes down to trading for fit or wise use of assets. The Bullock and Ntiliikina acquisition gives me great hope that assets can get the job done via the Mini-MLE, the pick, and the Trade Exception.

So I would prioritize an additional Bullock/DFS lite version ; a bigger wing Crowder-type; and an improvement at C.
I am ok if keeping THJ is the preferred/taken route on the wing if he is committed to improvement defensively and not letting his diminished role on offense (and it will with SD & JB) be detrimental to his overall game.
I am really hoping that a Turner trade can be swung using minimal assets and a future pick. This run makes me willing to sacrifice some of the future in order to secure better returns in the short-term (to show Luka a serious commitment to winning!) 
I'd settle for Holmes using the TE combined with a post-draft trade that sent the draft rights to the player selected back to Sacramento.

[Jakeospikez]

Don't really get what all the chirping is about now. Nothing really changed. Discussion before was always to find a center that can play in Kidd's switch & swarm or whatever it's called defense that can combine Maxi & Powell's skillsets while also being on Luka's timeline. All that talk was fine and still relevant. Need to keep Maxi, he's way too valuable. Pretty sure Powell will actually get to play this series after being erased by 2 horrible matchups vs elite traditional bigs. Lob threat might be a bigger factor than 5 out in this series.

Really a great thing to beat Phoenix and get a fresh series against another style of play. If the rest of the league starts going small, they probably crowd 3 point shooters way better and the value of an inside force goes way up. Even vs Phoenix, there were a good number of times where the ball was being swung around the perimeter and Maxi leaked into the middle. If he was great at winning 1 on 1 there, it'd be easy buckets. Coaching staff should know whether a certain player can work in the system and pass that along to the FO. Turner might work, just cause Ayton is getting beat doesn't imply anything for the Mavericks cause the Suns don't play Kidd's defense.

[dynamicalVoid]

I'm actually hyped to see THJ with this group if he ever gets another chance.

Without knowing the offensive gameplan and what assignments are...

I think we need a 3, 4 or 5 that is able to put it on the floor, blow by closeouts and finish at the rim or be able to create on his way to the rim.

It seems like dallas has a lot of opportunity for blow by's and attacking the rim but we lack guys talented enough to do it.

Love dorian...but he's not great at it.  Bullock seems to kind of know how to do it but doesn't do it much.  Maybe it's coaching and they don't want wings doing that?

I get that 3andD players are hard to find...and messing with the defensive chemistry is risky....but if we had one player st either 3 4 or 5 that had dribbles and ability to create/playmake on way to the rim it would do wonders imo.

[SwisherPrice]

The "Space Ball" Era is here. If you play a lot of minutes at the 5 then you better have some 3-pt shooting ability! Even better if you aren't a complete mismatch on switches

https://theathletic.com/3314194/2022/05/...spaceball/

Underlying their 2022 postseason shortcomings, however, is one potential failure that was consistent across both teams: They couldn’t deal with spread-out lineups. This isn’t “small ball” so much as it is “space ball.”

Space ball is what happens when the size of the players on the court isn’t the issue, but rather where they are standing. It’s what happens when the Mavericks put five capable 3-point shooters on the perimeter and leave Rudy Gobert and Ayton in no man’s land, or when the Bucks’ protect-the-rim-first defensive ethos leaves them essentially daring Grant Williams to eliminate them.

You thought centers were dinosaurs now? Just you wait. Gobert has been one of the most valuable players in the league the past few regular seasons, but the Mavs’ space-ball approach,  much like that of the Clippers a year earlier, rendered him irrelevant. It wasn’t that he sucked; it was that he was no longer in a position to offset the carnage on the perimeter. The Mavs beat Utah twice even without Dončić by employing this approach.

Ayton met a similar fate in the conference semifinals, as did his backup JaVale McGee. In the ultimate irony, a Phoenix team that lost in the NBA Finals a year ago because it didn’t have enough quality size, lost this year because it lacked the perimeter groupings to face off against space ball. The Suns’ only good player between 6-foot-7 and 6-foot-11 was Cameron Johnson; when they tried to go small without one of their traditional centers, they ended up too small. (For the second postseason in a row, having Dario Saric might have helped.)

[Jakeospikez]

I think people need to remember the Bucks were missing Middleton and still took the Celtics to 7 games without home court advantage. Can't really draw instant conclusions off of their roster if they're missing one of their max contract players for an entire series.

[F Gump]

I think people need to remember the Bucks were missing Middleton and still took the Celtics to 7 games without home court advantage. Can't really draw instant conclusions off of their roster if they're missing one of their max contract players for an entire series.

Great point. They also (inexplicably) let PJ Tucker get away in free agency, which was a self-inflicted loss that made no sense and really hurt their ability.

[vfromlmf]

That Hollinger article expresses my point exactly. Also, love the coining of space ball lol

Paraphrasing "What teams need are their own versions of Grant Williams, PJ Tucker, Maxi Kleber"

[BoulderMFFL]

Derrick Favors fits into our trade exception.  What do you guys think about:

Does he have anything left in his tank?
Would he be a good fit and would he significantly improve our C position?
Sam Presti would require an asset or two in return. What would it take to get him?