2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[dirkfansince1998]

In the 00s Cuban was succesful because he was willing to pay more than any other owner before they changed the rules and added the repeater tax. He has been flat out cheap ever since. At times the Mavs had the lowest payroll in the league. One season even under the minimum. In the last couple of years the Mavs punted on multiple opportunities to use capspace or trade exceptions. And we used the same excuse for him.
Now the Mavs have a great talent like Luka. Some bad front office decisions that involved Cuban have put the Mavs in a difficlt situation. In the past he used money to compensate for his/GMs/coaches incompetence but I am not sure if he is still as committed.

[cow]

In the 00s Cuban was succesful because he was willing to pay more than any other owner before they changed the rules and added the repeater tax. He has been flat out cheap ever since. At times the Mavs had the lowest payroll in the league. One season even under the minimum. In the last couple of years the Mavs punted on multiple opportunities to use capspace or trade exceptions. And we used the same excuse for him.
Now the Mavs have a great talent like Luka. Some bad front office decisions that involved Cuban have put the Mavs in a difficlt situation. In the past he used money to compensate for his/GMs/coaches incompetence but I am not sure if he is still as committed.

I think (hope?) he'll be less frugal once he knows he has a contender...if we ever get there.  I dunk on Cuban a lot but I do believe he wants to win (to his own detriment at times).

[ClutchDirk]

Funny how? I mean, funny like I'm a clown? Like I amuse you?

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/72fea04...24ba6.jpeg

[dirkfansince1998]

I think (hope?) he'll be less frugal once he knows he has a contender...if we ever get there.  I dunk on Cuban a lot but I do believe he wants to win (to his own detriment at times).

I used to think that he was just waiting for the team to get back into contention but started to have doubt when the Mavs didn´t use 10m in capspace in 2019.

[fifteenth]

Won't ever "get there" if you can't keep your talent

[SleepingHero]

On the one hand, DFS is a key role player and his value to this team is unmatched. He's the spirit and grit the Mavs desperately need to play with.

On the other hand.... he's still a role player. He's a good one, but he shouldn't be treated like royalty as much as it hurts (I already foresee the cow and Killer gif on this statement alone).

I'm only really interested in trading DFS if we can find another wing that can replace his defense. Siakam, Simmons, Covington (+ a lot more) are necessary returns if we're letting go DFS.

If Nico can find a way to turn DFS+KP into Turner+ 1 of those guys then that's just flat out smart team building. And you can't get mad at that strategy.

[cow]

Won't ever "get there" if you can't keep your talent

That just brings me back to my "how tradeable is the contract" thinking.  Overpaying Brunson would be far more tolerable if we weren't overpaying Powell, WCS, Bullock, THJ (debatable?) and KP.  All those missteps add up over time.

We need to do a much better job of the bargain (DFS) and fair (Maxi) contracts.

[cow]

I'm only really interested in trading DFS if we can find another wing that can replace his defense. Siakam, Simmons, Covington (+ a lot more) are necessary returns if we're letting go DFS.

On a serious note, we've pined for RoCo so long that we didn't realize we already had him.  I'd take DFS over RoCo at this point in time.  I was reading on another board that RoCo is the guy you love until you have him on your own team and then you see all the shortcomings.  The dude does get traded a whole lot.  

I don't think Simmons is a replacement for DFS.  They both play defense but DFS is the floor spacer and Simmons is the playmaker.  That tandem on defense could be fun.  As much as we think Simmons value has tanked, I don't think the Mavs have the ammunition to get him.  And that might be a good thing as despite our teams faults, the chemistry is mostly great and KP is enough of a pro to overcome the shortcomings he has with Luka.  

Siakam is interesting but who knows what the cost would be.  I still think a Grant for THJ swap is super interesting and one I'd be willing to break my "no FRPs" stance for.  Turner is interesting too as I think he'd be easy to retain.  Pacer's asking price seems insane though.

Maxi's the guy I'd look at trading.  As much as I love him, he's not a starter.  We've got 2.6 starters on this team in my estimation so upgrading that would be nice.

[KillerLeft]

If Nico can find a way to turn DFS+KP into Turner+ 1 of those guys then that's just flat out smart team building. And you can't get mad at that strategy.

Sounds great. Show me the KP deal first, then we can talk. Until then me and the five guys I hired are going to rally around DFS with shotguns.

[Jym]

Siakam is interesting but who knows what the cost would be. 

His 3 point shot has fallen off but he's exactly the guy who I'd love to buy low on. I'd pick him over Simmons as a fit with Luka

Somehow coming out of the deadline with Turner and Siakam would be a dream to me. I'd be more than comfortable blowing all of our assets and a lot of our depth

[aguiar95]

In terms of trading, here is the pecking order of who needs to go IMO:

Waive for roster spot if needed in trade OR for Chriss

- W. Cauley-Stein
- M. Brown

Filler on a trade that brings a rotation piece (10-15mpg guy)

- T. Burke
- B. Marjanovic
- 2nd Round picks

Filler on a trade that brings a role player (20-25mpg guy)

- T. Hardaway Jr.
- TPE (10,865,952)
- F. Ntilikina
- S. Brown

Filler on a trade that brings a starter (30-35mpg guy)

- R. Bullock
- D. Powell
- J. Green
- M. Kleber
- 1st Round picks

Filler on a trade that brings a 2nd/3rd star

- K. Porzingis
- J. Brunson
- D. Finney-Smith

Untouchable

- L. Doncic

[TXBamanut]

60% of games played tanks his value.

If this dude played 100% of his games, I'm convinced that folks l would find a way to hate the guy ...

[Chicagojk]

The most important thing for for Kidd/front office is to fix the offense.  It is great the team is fighting hard on defense and this allows them to stay in most games.  But it is my opinion in todays game you need to always put pressure on the other team on offense.    And if the other team goes on a 4 minute cold streak, they look up and you are on a 16-4 run.   The Mavs offense just lacks any spurtability.   Other teams may got in 4-5 minute droughts, but the Mavs will give it right back to  them with our own drought.   There is very little concern of the Mavs running away from you.  That needs to change. 

The other thing is being able to execute late in close games and getting good shots on these possessions.  

Until the Mavs fix both, they will not be a serious threat.


On Jan 12th Bill Simmons Podcast, they go through the mid-season awards.   Two of the guys have Luka in their last slot on the third team (player #15), but Bill does not have Luka on his first three teams.  He does say he expects Luka to be on the second or third team by years end.  At around the 40 minute mark they have a short conversation on the Mavs plus Jalen Brunson.

https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmo...ew-belloni

[DanSchwartzgan]

Trying to put some rumors together...Boston trying to get under the tax and Indy moving MT here...I come up with the following:

Dallas:  Sends DP (or MK) plus DFS, Burke and WCS.  Receives MT, Schroeder and J. Hernangomez

Boston:  Sends Schroeder and J. Hernangomez (gets under the LT).  Receives Burke (takes the multi-year guy as penance).  

Indy:    Sends MT.  Receives Powell (or MK) plus DFS and WCS.

Everyone stays under the tax.  Schroeder and J-Hern are expiring (in fact, there isn't a path to bringing back Schroeder other than the T-MLE).  I suspect Dallas and Indy would both rather have Maxi (and I agree with the position that Maxi being here helps to retain Brunson).  

1.  I get the concern about the KP/MT fit.  It isn't knowable until it actually happens.  I looked at shot charts for both and found it interesting how much KP operates from the right side of the court and how much MT operates from the left.

2.  I get that DFS is an irreplaceable unique multi-position player.  But with KP/MT and Maxi on the squad, you are committing to two bigs pretty much the entire game.  At that point Dorian is just a three.  Still a good one (and we'll spend years trying to replace what he has become), but replacing him at the three-only isn't as impossible as replacing him as a 3/4.

MT         Maxi/Chriss
KP          Maxi/Chriss
RB          THJ/SBrown
Luka       J. Green/Frank
Brunson  Schroeder

I get this whole DFS discussion is emotional for some, but I have a request.  Can we please stop with the Straw Man arguments.  If you aren't familiar with the term it is when a post says something like "some people want to give Dorian away for free" or "some people think Dorian is a worthless dog".  The post then goes on to knock down the Straw Man.  It is lazy and a crutch.  It misrepresents the positions people are taking and doesn't advance the cumulative knowledge of the board in any way.  We'd all be better off if the post simply said I like Dorian better than MT and here is why (as many have done).

[ClutchDirk]

Mark Stein quote posted on Discord by dallaskid...

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments...G_1766.png

[cow]

If this dude played 100% of his games, I'm convinced that folks l would find a way to hate the guy ...

What's hateful about stating facts?

[Kammrath]

RE: Stein's Report

Stein saying the Mavs are trying to get in on MT or JC is SUPER interesting to me. 

My gut says that means they have a KP trade lined up IF they can secure another big through another trade. I obviously could be dead wrong there and they could be trying to pair one of those guys WITH KP. 

@"DanSchwartzgan" can you remind me again on what you have seen with two big lineups this season? My gut says they suck, but didn't you highlight some stretches where they were quite successful?

[Chicagojk]

Trying to put some rumors together...Boston trying to get under the tax and Indy moving MT here...I come up with the following:

Dallas:  Sends DP (or MK) plus DFS, Burke and WCS.  Receives MT, Schroeder and J. Hernangomez

Boston:  Sends Schroeder and J. Hernangomez (gets under the LT).  Receives Burke (takes the multi-year guy as penance).  

Indy:    Sends MT.  Receives Powell (or MK) plus DFS and WCS.

Any way to expand to include Toronto?  Maybe they get Schroeder, another expiring and a couple of seconds?  Dragic comes to Dallas.   

I have been thinking of Turner as well.   I still think the more you watch him, the less excited you get about him.   But I have begun wondering if dallas zigs while everyone else zags by going super big at the 4 and 5.    Maybe they do see KP as a long term 4 and Turner as the 5.   I don't know.  I am still not sure of the fit or if it would be worth to try for what we would need to give up, but I have been thinking about it.

---

Mark Stein quote posted on Discord by dallaskid...

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments...G_1766.png

It sucks Dallas is already looking for a taker for Hardaway if true.   Just bad management.   

i would imagine the demand is low now.  We will need to rebuild his value.  If Hardaway plays to last year level, he does not have a bad contract.   His fit this years just feels off though.   For what I believe he could probably retrieve, I would probably hold on to him and try to get him back to playing to last years level and look to move him at that time.   I fear if you moved him right now, you are getting back .50 of the dollar.

[Kammrath]

It sucks Dallas is already looking for a taker for Hardaway if true.   Just bad management.   

i would imagine the demand is low now.  We will need to rebuild his value.  If Hardaway plays to last year level, he does not have a bad contract.   His fit this years just feels off though.   For what I believe he could probably retrieve, I would probably hold on to him and try to get him back to playing to last years level and look to move him at that time.   I fear if you moved him right now, you are getting back .50 of the dollar.

I liked the descending contract they did with him. This year is the biggest hit $21M, then down to $19M, $17.5M, and $16M to end the contract. It feels like he is easily flippable, even with him not playing well. I might be wrong, but we will see.

[vfromlmf]

It sucks Dallas is already looking for a taker for Hardaway if true.   Just bad management. 

Disagree. THJ is a tradable asset. The alternative was to lose him for nothing. It's an upgrade business so Dallas will obviously look to get better, but if they don't trade him, like it or not, THJ is a big (30 mpg) part of this team.