2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[Kammrath]

Trading JB is objectively punting on this season unless a major shot-creator comes back directly in the deal.

This season is already "lost" with Luka not being his best self and everyone learning new schemes and systems. 

NOW is the time to strike and cash in on JB. He is the Mavs single best asset right now (other than Luka). I think the idea of him being a "rental" is false. Teams will be getting assurances from his agent and preliminary contract conversations will be had. Anyone who trades for him WILL sign him this summer. 

JB offers the best way to remaking the roster in a significant way.

[KillerLeft]

JB offers the best way to remaking the roster in a significant way.

I think this is true. There are others who might be valuable to certain teams, but JB is a universally recognized up-and-coming prospect. 

[DanSchwartzgan]

Even without the WCS/Kemba side action this still makes sense. It hurts just enough that it's probably fair. And it also secures a more predictable payroll for Dallas next year without worrying about retaining JB and/or DFS.

BTW, as much as the Knicks are thirsting after Brunson, it also wouldn't surprise me if we're able to extract something else of value from them in the deal. That could either be an extra sweetener to Philly or something affordable worth keeping. For example, I'd love to also get NY's 22 pick to send to Philly with ours this summer so that we can keep our picks in 23 and beyond. But even if that's asking too much, maybe there's a cheap player that could be useful.

Yeah, there are probably a dozen ways we can use the TPE to absorb some money and help our trading partners manage their tax (or their 22/23 cap commitments).  I picked a NY PG coming here because I don’t see them needing Brunson, Quickley, Rose and Walker.  But, depending on the trading partner, maybe the NY PG goes there and they dump something else to us (maybe Indy and McConnell).  Or, maybe the NY PG comes here in a non-Simmons deal like Turner or Collins since we would still need a PG to back up Luka.

The main thing is I’m just realizing how many doors can be opened by getting our pick back from NY.  I’ve been discounting any deal where the receiving team needs a pick or picks, but maybe I was premature.  Yeah, it costs us Brunson, but that may be the key that unlocks a star.

[cow]

Getting our pick back from the Knicks let's you bundle THJ + this year's FRP for Grant.

[Scott41theMavs]

This season is already "lost" with Luka not being his best self and everyone learning new schemes and systems. 

NOW is the time to strike and cash in on JB. He is the Mavs single best asset right now (other than Luka). I think the idea of him being a "rental" is false. Teams will be getting assurances from his agent and preliminary contract conversations will be had. Anyone who trades for him WILL sign him this summer. 

JB offers the best way to remaking the roster in a significant way.

Cow's suggestion is way too little in return. And it doesn't "re-make the roster" unless one regards Robinson as our long-term solution at center. 

We have a very flawed "Big Three" right now with Luka, KP, and JB. You and I (and many others) regard KP as the one who *really* needs to be replaced. If you're trading away JB, there has to be a clear path to the acquisition of a star (not necessarily All-Star) level player in there. 

There is a single scenario in which trading JB in any deal is acceptable to me as a Mavs fan - if JB and his agent have made it clear that JB isn't coming back at any price because he doesn't want to carry Luka's luggage (which I don't believe is what's happening on the court this year, and certainly not the last couple of weeks). Otherwise, you pay the man, one way or the other. 

And I call complete BS on your take that Luka in any way shape or form makes this a lost year. Way to motivate him for next year!!!!1!11!11!11!

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Getting our pick back from the Knicks let's you bundle THJ + this year's FRP for Grant.

Our pick for this year will be a pretty high one if they trade Brunson away.

[Mavs2021]

Mitchell Robinson, one of our garbage contracts and our pick back, please.

Why our pick? That pick is protected. I´d rather have the Knicks 2023 unprotected. If they want him badly, I´d add ask for a 2025 1st on top.

[cow]

Cow's suggestion is way too little in return. And it doesn't "re-make the roster" unless one regards Robinson as our long-term solution at center. 

If you could flip JB for Robinson, a FRP and swap Bullock for Kemba, you wouldn't consider that a good haul?

-Put Robinson in the Tyson Chandler "how to play the 5" Academy. 
-Get off of Bullocks overpayment. 
-It also means both Powell and Kemba expire next year and an expiring Kemba is something that could be trade since his contract is so low.
-Kemba can still get you shot creation and buckets.  While I'd rather have JB's consistency, Kemba can go en fuego in a way that JB's never proven he can do.  Not bad for a rental and a contract dump.
-Getting your FRP back gives you the full arsenal of FRPs to play with.  That can help with the rumors of wanting to move off of KP/THJ.

I'd honestly be surprised if they can get that much for half a season and bird rights to JB.  And like Killer and Kamm said, we don't know that the Mavs can or want to retain JB for the contract he will earn.  I'd love to keep JB but if you have to trade him, that New York trade could open up a bunch of potential.

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Why our pick? That pick is protected. I´d rather have the Knicks 2023 unprotected. If they want him badly, I´d add ask for a 2025 1st on top.

Either would work.  I doubt you'd get two picks but I wouldn't complain either.

[Scott41theMavs]

If you could flip JB for Robinson, a FRP and swap Bullock for Kemba, you wouldn't consider that a good haul.

-Put Robinson in the Tyson Chandler "how to play the 5" Academy. 
-Get off of Bullocks overpayment. 
-It also means both Powell and Kemba expire next year and an expiring Kemba is something that could be trade since his contract is so low.
-Kemba can still get you shot creation and buckets.  While I'd rather have JB's consistency, Kemba can go en fuego in a way that JB's never proven he can do.  Not bad for a rental and a contract dump.
-Getting your FRP back gives you the full arsenal of FRPs to play with.  That can help with the rumors of wanting to move off of KP/THJ.

I'd honestly be surprised if they can get that much for half a season and bird rights to JB.  And like Killer and Kamm said, we don't know that the Mavs can or want to retain JB for the contract he will earn.  I'd love to keep JB but if you have to trade him, that New York trade could open up a bunch of potential.

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Either would work.  I doubt you'd get two picks but I wouldn't complain either.

Given our current team, we have three bad contracts: KP, THJ, and Powell. Bullock isn't that overpaid given his recent performance and career numbers. If we're flushing this season down the toilet, let's make sure to line up deals for THJ and KP by the deadline as well. At that point, maybe there's even a route to cap room this summer, if that's what they want. 

7-1 over the past eight, with three impressive victories. Let's blow the whole thing up!

[Tyler]

Not that I think this is likely, but there would be some major universal karma involved in trading JB for Reddish and our 23 pick. Getting back two things we sent out for KP and Luka would be fun.

[cow]

Given our current team, we have three bad contracts: KP, THJ, and Powell. Bullock isn't that overpaid given his recent performance and career numbers. If we're flushing this season down the toilet, let's make sure to line up deals for THJ and KP by the deadline as well. At that point, maybe there's even a route to cap room this summer, if that's what they want. 

7-1 over the past eight, with three impressive victories. Let's blow the whole thing up!

Combing into a THJ trade is exactly what I mentioned.  I'd consider Bullock a bad contract in I don't think anyone would pay you for him.

Is this a championship team?  No.  If MBT have knowledge that they can't or are unwilling to retain JB, it would be monumentally dumb to not extract value from him.

[Mavs2021]

I´d rather keep Bullock. I think he´s been solid after his rough start. Dump Burke and Boban on the Knicks.

Brunson + Burke + Boban for Kemba + Grimes + Quickley + Knicks 2023 1st round pick unprotected.

[cow]

I´d rather keep Bullock. I think he´s been solid after his rough start. Dump Burke and Boban on the Knicks.

Brunson + Burke + Boban for Kemba + Grimes + Quickley + Knicks 2023 1st round pick unprotected.

Mavs aren't trading Boban.  He's not here for his play.  You could sub Powell for Bullock.

[mvossman]

If you could flip JB for Robinson, a FRP and swap Bullock for Kemba, you wouldn't consider that a good haul.

-Put Robinson in the Tyson Chandler "how to play the 5" Academy. 
-Get off of Bullocks overpayment. 
-It also means both Powell and Kemba expire next year and an expiring Kemba is something that could be trade since his contract is so low.
-Kemba can still get you shot creation and buckets.  While I'd rather have JB's consistency, Kemba can go en fuego in a way that JB's never proven he can do.  Not bad for a rental and a contract dump.
-Getting your FRP back gives you the full arsenal of FRPs to play with.  That can help with the rumors of wanting to move off of KP/THJ.

I'd honestly be surprised if they can get that much for half a season and bird rights to JB.  And like Killer and Kamm said, we don't know that the Mavs can or want to retain JB for the contract he will earn.  I'd love to keep JB but if you have to trade him, that New York trade could open up a bunch of potential.

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Either would work.  I doubt you'd get two picks but I wouldn't complain either.

If they do the Brunson trade to NY for a pick+, I am guessing that would be in conjunction with another move involving picks.  I have a real hard time seeing Cuban dump Brunson for picks without a reasonable replacement.  That is not really his style, especially when the team is playing so well right now.

[Scott41theMavs]

Combing into a THJ trade is exactly what I mentioned.

Is this a championship team?  No.  If MBT have knowledge that they can't or are unwilling to retain JB, it would be monumentally dumb to not extract value from him.

I mentioned, back in the game thread, that the Mavs have been on this tear without KP (surprise!) and with THJ not contributing that much other than minutes. Just try to get *anything* back for them - a rotation player for each, plus an expiring for each, for example - and you have a better team, *plus* the ability to re-sign JB and GK. 

I'm completely out on any trading of Brunson unless it brings back a proven all-star (not likely to happen unless he's packaged with KP), or if his agent has told the Mavs that he wants his own team and isn't coming back at any price. Being "unwilling" to retain Brunson is binarily unacceptable to me as a Mavs fan.

[cow]

I mentioned, back in the game thread, that the Mavs have been on this tear without KP (surprise!) and with THJ not contributing that much other than minutes. Just try to get *anything* back for them - a rotation player for each, plus an expiring for each, for example - and you have a better team, *plus* the ability to re-sign JB and GK. 

I'm completely out on any trading of Brunson unless it brings back a proven all-star (not likely to happen unless he's packaged with KP), or if his agent has told the Mavs that he wants his own team and isn't coming back at any price.

I've been championing that this team is better the fewer minutes our Knicks players get.  In a vacuum, I'd like to keep JB but that might not be feasible.  And as much as my perception has turned around on JB, he might be a starter on certain teams but I don't think he's a championship cornerstone short of being a super sixth man.  If you could use your 22 pick + THJ for Grant, here's your squad:

Starters:  Luka, DFS, KP, Grant, Kemba 
Bench:  Maxi, Robinson (can start when KP is hurt), Power or Bullock (whoever doesn't get dumped), Chriss, Strerling, Josh, Dragic (pickup?)

You'd need to resign Robinson in the offseason.  But once draft has passed, you are right back to having a full set of FRPs again.

[Scott41theMavs]

I've been championing that this team is better the fewer minutes our Knicks players get.  In a vacuum, I'd like to keep JB but that might not be feasible.  And as much as my perception has turned around on JB, he might be a starter on certain teams but I don't think he's a championship cornerstone short of being a super sixth man.  If you could use your 22 pick + THJ for Grant, here's your squad:

Starters:  Luka, DFS, KP, Grant, Kemba 
Bench:  Maxi, Robinson (can start when KP is hurt), Power or Bullock (whoever doesn't get dumped), Chriss, Strerling, Josh, Dragic (pickup?)

You'd need to resign Robinson in the offseason.  But once draft has passed, you are right back to having a full set of FRPs again.

That wouldn't be terrible, but I'd still want KP gone if possible. Throw in KP for Siakam and I might be sold (I view MR as a starter).

[Mikelo]

The music from Jalen to Knicks has been playing for a while..they really want it and I guess it must be tempting for Jalen to go run his own Knicks team..they seem to want to build around Barrett/Reddish and eventually chase Zion..honestly Jalen fits like a glove.. I think that a change based on Brunson/Randle makes a lot of sense... perhaps we have to wait for the off-season, to facilitate salaries, etc.
Brunson/Bullock/Dallas 22 for Randle/Kemba or Burks/Dallas 23 .. We get a substitute for Jalen and a Dallas native 4 who could work very well as a 2/3 option... We can also risk getting to the FA and getting paid by the Knicks... just sending Fournier would put us in trouble to overpay Jalen massively or let DFS walk.

[mvossman]

I've been championing that this team is better the fewer minutes our Knicks players get.  In a vacuum, I'd like to keep JB but that might not be feasible.  And as much as my perception has turned around on JB, he might be a starter on certain teams but I don't think he's a championship cornerstone short of being a super sixth man.  If you could use your 22 pick + THJ for Grant, here's your squad:

Starters:  Luka, DFS, KP, Grant, Kemba 
Bench:  Maxi, Robinson (can start when KP is hurt), Power or Bullock (whoever doesn't get dumped), Chriss, Strerling, Josh, Dragic (pickup?)

You'd need to resign Robinson in the offseason.  But once draft has passed, you are right back to having a full set of FRPs again.

That lineup doesn't really do it for me.  Kemba defense is so bad now (significantly worse than Brunson) I'm not sure you can put him in the starting lineup.  Grant is not a great floor stretcher, and his offensive game is based on (fairly inefficient) volume (his usage has been upper 20s last two years).  Don't see that being a great fit with Luka.  That lineup has a lot of mouths to feed and not enough defense.

[cow]

That lineup doesn't really do it for me.  Kemba defense is so bad now (significantly worse than Brunson) I'm not sure you can put him in the starting lineup.  Grant is not a great floor stretcher, and his offensive game is based on (fairly inefficient) volume (his usage has been upper 20s last two years).  Don't see that being a great fit with Luka.  That lineup has a lot of mouths to feed and not enough defense.

It's not a finished project though and nothing is perfect.  This team is more than a move or two away from being a contender.  The prize to me is getting off of THJ.  I'm not married to Robinson (though I think he's got a lot of upside) or Grant (but I'd take him over THJ).  I'm also pretty skeptical that the Knicks would give up everything I'm asking for.

[hakeemfaan]

I hated. absolutely hated JJB for many years. It was a pure bias due to his height and my feeling that you could not win a title with this guy. I overlooked the fact that the guy belonged in the NBA. We talk about heart and other intangibles, but  IMO I feel now it comes to processing things quickly in your head and seeing options a split second before the defense does.  JJB had that.  His inconsistency in shooting kept him from having an even better career than he had ( and he had a fine career) more than his height limitations. 

Reason I say this is I was upset at the JB pick to now flat out enjoying watch the guy play. He is so I ncredibly crafty that he can do this for a long time to come. IMO it is not about whether he perfectly complements Luka or not.  He can play and can absolutely be a key piece on a title run. 

If we are going to give him up I might be ok if they can get rid of THJ in the process Else No. Even if they can get rid of THJ..I would still lean towards a No. We have given up Barnes,Seth, Delon and really didn’t get better talent Talent that can play with the big boys is not easy to find. JB has that. Sign him even if it’s a bit too pricey and then worry later. Currently he is the clear 2nd best player on the roster.