2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[fifteenth]

Can we please stop with the Straw Man arguments. 

WHY DO YOU HATE DFS SO MUCH!!?? 

Oh, wait. Did I do that wrong?

[ItsGoTime]

DFS is so overrated around here.

[KillerLeft]

DFS is so overrated around here.

And around the league, apparently.

[Kammrath]

RE: John Collins Pursuit

So I assume that ATL would want to swap JC ($23M) for Maxi ($9M). Thoughts on who ATL would want to close the salary gap? Would DFS be included here as well?

[KillerLeft]

RE: John Collins Pursuit

So I assume that ATL would want to swap JC ($23M) for Maxi ($9M). Thoughts on who ATL would want to close the salary gap? Would DFS be included here as well?

Most of the people I've heard believe that the Collins availability isn't all that substantive, and that Gallo is the other piece ATL is really trying to move. 

But if it's true, my guess would be that the deal they want is for Ben Simmons, only they DON'T want Harris coming back. I think Dallas' way in is to take Harris, which, hopefully, is a non-starter.

[Mavs03]

RE: John Collins Pursuit

So I assume that ATL would want to swap JC ($23M) for Maxi ($9M). Thoughts on who ATL would want to close the salary gap? Would DFS be included here as well?

Maxi, WCS, S. Brown and future 1st round pick for JC?  Allow us to keep Chriss on the roster for the whole year

[Kammrath]

Most of the people I've heard believe that the Collins availability isn't all that substantive

Who is saying that? 

JC has expressed his frustrations in ATL. Schlenk just traded Reddish because Reddish didn't want to be there and Schlenk has said he only wants players who want to be there. Stein is reporting the Mavs trying to get in on JC. Others are reporting JC could be part of a BS trade.

[KillerLeft]

Who is saying that? 

JC has expressed his frustrations in ATL. Schlenk just traded Reddish because Reddish didn't want to be there and Schlenk has said he only wants players who want to be there. Stein is reporting the Mavs trying to get in on JC. Others are reporting JC could be part of a BS trade.

I've heard it in a few places. Sorry, no links or anything. 

I do think he's available for Ben Simmons, but not available as in being shopped.

[mvossman]

Trying to put some rumors together...Boston trying to get under the tax and Indy moving MT here...I come up with the following:

Dallas:  Sends DP (or MK) plus DFS, Burke and WCS.  Receives MT, Schroeder and J. Hernangomez

Boston:  Sends Schroeder and J. Hernangomez (gets under the LT).  Receives Burke (takes the multi-year guy as penance).  

Indy:    Sends MT.  Receives Powell (or MK) plus DFS and WCS.

Everyone stays under the tax.  Schroeder and J-Hern are expiring (in fact, there isn't a path to bringing back Schroeder other than the T-MLE).  I suspect Dallas and Indy would both rather have Maxi (and I agree with the position that Maxi being here helps to retain Brunson).  

1.  I get the concern about the KP/MT fit.  It isn't knowable until it actually happens.  I looked at shot charts for both and found it interesting how much KP operates from the right side of the court and how much MT operates from the left.

2.  I get that DFS is an irreplaceable unique multi-position player.  But with KP/MT and Maxi on the squad, you are committing to two bigs pretty much the entire game.  At that point Dorian is just a three.  Still a good one (and we'll spend years trying to replace what he has become), but replacing him at the three-only isn't as impossible as replacing him as a 3/4.

MT         Maxi/Chriss
KP          Maxi/Chriss
RB          THJ/SBrown
Luka       J. Green/Frank
Brunson  Schroeder

I get this whole DFS discussion is emotional for some, but I have a request.  Can we please stop with the Straw Man arguments.  If you aren't familiar with the term it is when a post says something like "some people want to give Dorian away for free" or "some people think Dorian is a worthless dog".  The post then goes on to knock down the Straw Man.  It is lazy and a crutch.  It misrepresents the positions people are taking and doesn't advance the cumulative knowledge of the board in any way.  We'd all be better off if the post simply said I like Dorian better than MT and here is why (as many have done).

My contention has always been that you can't get enough value in a DFS trade to be worth it.  If we could actually essentially trade DFS for Myles Turner, then you have to pull that trigger.  But I don't think he will be enough.  At the minimum it would require Maxi, and/or a first.  If Maxi and DFS go out, you are looking at a gaping hole at the 4.  If we get to keep Maxi, would you do DFS + a first?

Personally, I would rather keep DFS and Maxi and find a third team to do KP for Turner/Lamb.  That would also save us 16 mil next year and cover most of the distance to stay under the tax.

[Kammrath]

If Maxi and DFS go out, you are looking at a gaping hole at the 4.

Not if JC is the return.....

[cow]

Starting to get free agency vibes with all the big names thrown around.  Setting expectations to disappointment.

[mvossman]

Not if JC is the return.....

If we did make that trade for JC, I would so much rather have Maxi as our third big than Powell.  If we end up making a trade like that, I would feel more desire for KP/Turner swap.  Turner would be the perfect match with JC.

The thing is though, a big part of the reason any of these guys might be on the move is they are not happy with their current usage (KP last year).  I worry that putting any two of these guys together is not going to help addressing that.

[KillerLeft]

Starting to get free agency vibes with all the big names thrown around.  Setting expectations to disappointment.

For sure. 

The Mavs might be a trade or two, but I don't think either will be on the scale people's minds are entertaining. The only way to do that is to move Porzingis, which makes it quite a long shot. Even if Porzingis is moved, I think the incoming name will be smaller than his. 

But, it's what we do around here. It's fun, I guess.

[cow]

For sure. 

The Mavs might be a trade or two, but I don't think either will be on the scale people's minds are entertaining. The only way to do that is to move Porzingis, which makes it quite a long shot. Even if Porzingis is moved, I think the incoming name will be smaller than his. 

But, it's what we do around here. It's fun, I guess.

I'm hoping but not expecting THJ to get moved.  I hate being right.  I really do.

[KillerLeft]

I'm hoping but not expecting THJ to get moved.  I hate being right.  I really do.

THJ still has value to a team that will use him right, I’m sure of it. If they want to move him, I think they will be able to.

I just don’t think it’s going to be a big name coming back in return.

[cow]

THJ still has value to a team that will use him right, I’m sure of it. If they want to move him, I think they will be able to.

I just don’t think it’s going to be a big name coming back in return.

I think you could pry Grant away but is he worth the cost?  THJ's contract is kind of neutral but he could be a great culture guy for that rebuilding franchise.

[mvossman]

Maxi, WCS, S. Brown and future 1st round pick for JC?  Allow us to keep Chriss on the roster for the whole year

Don't think that will be enough.  Collins is going to be expensive.  Maxi is not a starter.  My guess is that it will likely take Maxi + DFS + 1st to get it done.

[mvossman]

I think you could pry Grant away but is he worth the cost?  THJ's contract is kind of neutral but he could be a great culture guy for that rebuilding franchise.

Assuming the cost is THJ and a first, I say no.  If I am going to burn a first I would rather do it for Turner than Grant.

[cow]

Assuming the cost is THJ and a first, I say no.  If I am going to burn a first I would rather do it for Turner than Grant.

I think part of what you are buying with that first is getting rid of THJ.  Indy's asking price seems crazy right now.  I'm sure it will come down but unless we can get rid of other dead weight, I don't really want to spend a FRP for either.  

It's not going to happen but I really want clear all the Knick themed deck chairs.  I think this team is better without them.

---

Don't think that will be enough.  Collins is going to be expensive.  Maxi is not a starter.  My guess is that it will likely take Maxi + DFS + 1st to get it done.

I bet Collins would cost multiple FRPs if another star player isn't being swapped.

[Chicagojk]

I have no idea what the Mavs think long term on Jalen and DFS.  Jalen has been excellent this year and DFS has been very good.   I have felt for years the previous leadership had always undervalued Jalen and didn't fully understand what they had.  Maybe I am off on that.   It is tough to think the new leadership thought differently.   Their main offseason target was Lowry.    If they got Lowry it is difficult to think Brunson would have been a big re-signing priority or if Jalen would even want to play behind Lowry and Luka.   Same with the Dragic push this offseason.  Personally, I think all three (Luka, Jalen and Dragic) could play together with having two on the court at all times.   Honesty though, Goran could have made Jalen expendable.   I just think Jalen will produce similarly how he is now on a championship contending team.   Good scoring, solid assists, low turnovers, good shooting, and smart play.   That is the beauty of his game.  He is not a guy who gets stats just because he gets a lot of opportunities.  I think he will get stats in the flow of a team.

This offseason I thought the signing of Bullock meant DFS would be expendable.   The new leadership brought in their guy in Bullock.   I just had trouble thinking you would pay 20-25 million for two wings who were both limited in some ways.   So far, DFS has outplayed Bullock by a wide margin imo.   

So I am not sure what they think of both.   I would like both to stay.  Jalen above DFS for me.   I think Hardaway and maybe one of Bullock/Maxi may be the odd man out.  Maybe not right away but in the next year or so, I would think maybe two of those are gone....if Jalen and DFS are brought back.