2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[Jym]

Something to note
May not be coming here, but I think it's clear he's out of Indy

https://twitter.com/JPadmore92/status/14...wcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2Fboards%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D2144781start%3D240

[mvossman]

why is Charlotte valuing Hayward who can't stay on the court and PJ who is their backup center?  Now Indy would definitely have value for PJ because he should be starting and would do well next to Sabonis.

they have no center of any value and KP would be huge for them. their injury risk portfolio stays the same.  if you think KP is not enough for those two, then you are undervaluing KP for sure.

As for Indy, they get a sg that knows Carlisle and has his trust and PJ plus a pick.  all they give up is Turner who is complaining and is clearly not a fit with their better center in Sabonis.  Not only that but they save money which is big for that franchise.  Indy won't tank but they will need to do something because that roster is not working. With Turner only having one year left after this, if they don't move him this trade deadline they will be lucky to get even this much back.

Let me put it this way, I would guess 99% of this board would take that package for KP (maybe not Jym?).  If every fan would do it, its probably too good to be true.

[Scott41theMavs]

mvossman, I hate your posts, but I love that you're here. I hate your posts because they always bring this conversation back to the frustrating realities. But we need that. Keep it up, man!!

[DallasMaverick]

Something to note
May not be coming here, but I think it's clear he's out of Indy

https://twitter.com/JPadmore92/status/14...wcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2Fboards%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D2144781start%3D240

Was that the Dec 10 game?

[mvossman]

mvossman, I hate your posts, but I love that you're here. I hate your posts because they always bring this conversation back to the frustrating realities. But we need that. Keep it up, man!!

The irony is I'm an optimistic person and a bit of a homer.  I have to constantly check myself against unreasonable expectations.  I guess I have a lot of experience crushing hopes and dreams (usually my own).

[SleepingHero]

How about an asset reload with the Wizards?

KP to the Wizards

Kispert+ Montrez Harrell+ KCP+ 1st lottery protected+2nd 

Wizards get their 2nd star and it costs them 1 first. Mavs get 2 wings and an energy big to replace KP plus some picks.

[cow]

How about an asset reload with the Wizards?

KP to the Wizards

Kispert+ Montrez Harrell+ KCP+ 1st lottery protected+2nd 

Wizards get their 2nd star and it costs them 1 first. Mavs get 2 wings and an energy big to replace KP plus some picks.

Flip that first + THJ to Detroit for Grant.

[BackToSquareOne]

How about an asset reload with the Wizards?

KP to the Wizards

Kispert+ Montrez Harrell+ KCP+ 1st lottery protected+2nd 

Wizards get their 2nd star and it costs them 1 first. Mavs get 2 wings and an energy big to replace KP plus some picks.

Two more wings. ??? 

Ok. So where does Josh Green fit into that scheme? Or Reggie? 

No wait, the idea is that Kispert and KCP sit behind Frank on the bench to wait for the 4th off the bench garbage time role?

Where do you people get these ideas?

And you think Trez is a 1-1 replacement - because that's what your deal comes down to - for KP in terms of value - even for the Mavs?

[SleepingHero]

Two more wings. ??? 

Ok. So where does Josh Green fit into that scheme? Or Reggie? 

No wait, the idea is that Kispert and KCP sit behind Frank on the bench to wait for the 4th off the bench garbage time role?

Where do you people get these ideas?

And you think Trez is a 1-1 replacement - because that's what your deal comes down to - for KP in terms of value - even for the Mavs?

Both Green and Reggie are 2-guards...? Lets not even get into the semantics of positional naming and talk about roles. 

KCP fills the THJ role in my mind. Getting him means we can cut loose on THJ easier and not have to worry about getting back a massive haul in return.

Harrell is the first big off the bench and moves M.Brown and Chriss back 1 slot each. I think Harrell would fit extremely well on this team as he's a spark plug energy guy.

Kispert is a 6-7 wing who ideally would take minutes from S.Brown and reduce the workload on DFS. He looks to be a project so I'm not too worried about fitting him into the rotation this year. But he's a deadeye shooter that has a lot of talent and would be a good asset to have. 

So where does Green lose minutes here? Kidd's substitution patterns while Luka has been healthy has Powell and Doncic coming off for both THJ and Bullock in the first. THEN Green comes in to start the 2nd taking off one of THJ or Bullock. This puts Green as a 3rd guard. KCP would replace THJ in this scenario. Green doesn't lose his role anywhere here. If anything THJ loses out but are we really complaining about that if we're replacing him with deadeye shooter KCP?

But you have a point that the Mavs need to find  roster spots in the original trade I proposed. And no this trade is not a one for one with KP and Trezz. Its 1 sub all-star going out with 2 high quality role players and 1 prospect in return with the Mavs getting 2 picks out of it. Thats more than a fair return for KP. 

In any case given that Trezz and KCP just had an altercation that ended with them getting physically separated I can't imagine both being traded together which makes the deal DOA anyways.

[Mapka]

Both Green and Reggie are 2-guards...? Lets not even get into the semantics of positional naming and talk about roles. 

KCP fills the THJ role in my mind. Getting him means we can cut loose on THJ easier and not have to worry about getting back a massive haul in return.

Harrell is the first big off the bench and moves M.Brown and Chriss back 1 slot each. I think Harrell would fit extremely well on this team as he's a spark plug energy guy.

Kispert is a 6-7 wing who ideally would take minutes from S.Brown and reduce the workload on DFS. He looks to be a project so I'm not too worried about fitting him into the rotation this year. But he's a deadeye shooter that has a lot of talent and would be a good asset to have. 

So where does Green lose minutes here? Kidd's substitution patterns while Luka has been healthy has Powell and Doncic coming off for both THJ and Bullock in the first. THEN Green comes in to start the 2nd taking off one of THJ or Bullock. This puts Green as a 3rd guard. KCP would replace THJ in this scenario. Green doesn't lose his role anywhere here. If anything THJ loses out but are we really complaining about that if we're replacing him with deadeye shooter KCP?

But you have a point that the Mavs need to find  roster spots in the original trade I proposed. And no this trade is not a one for one with KP and Trezz. Its 1 sub all-star going out with 2 high quality role players and 1 prospect in return with the Mavs getting 2 picks out of it. Thats more than a fair return for KP. 

In any case given that Trezz and KCP just had an altercation that ended with them getting physically separated I can't imagine both being traded together which makes the deal DOA anyways.

So we trade away our first big for our then second big to downgrade our microwavescorer of the bench?
All to get a prospect that’s not worth playing right now?

The altercation wouldn't scare me at all, if they were real men and players. Have my doubts about Trez there and don't know about KCP.

[Omega_Supreme]

I surely hope that if the Mavs are considering a trade that Sabonis is the guy we target. I love Turner but if I had to have my choice though, I go Sabonis. 

Sabonis can play with his back to the basket, set screens, he is everything we need and seems to be missing right now. 

Part of me wonders if we could get those guys on the cheap or one of them on the cheap in exchange for Rick guys.

[burekemde]

I surely hope that if the Mavs are considering a trade that Sabonis is the guy we target. I love Turner but if I had to have my choice though, I go Sabonis. 

Sabonis can play with his back to the basket, set screens, he is everything we need and seems to be missing right now. 

Part of me wonders if we could get those guys on the cheap or one of them on the cheap in exchange for Rick guys.

Omega. I couldnt agree more! Exactly the main point you mention is that he can play with his back to the basket, that is Sabonis. Set screens. And pass as good as almost any big men in the league besides Jokic. Sabonis is all this team needs to win a title! Two other guys we have that also can play with the back to the basket and still be efficient and make something happen, Luka and Brunson. The great players can do that.

I really think if we pair Luka, Brunson and Sabonis, that the entire offense would completely explode! We would see something like ala Kings with Webber, Divac etc. with much more passing and overall skill and easy baskets and simply a better offense.

The key is that Sabonis would link the Luka pick and roll to the rest of the team. And neither Powell nor KP nor Maxi nor WCS can provide that right now. Sabonis is able to set the great screen, then able to step a bit behind and get the ball, then drive and score or pass it out to others.

[ItsGoTime]

My series of trades to rebuild this team into a better looking group:

MT for DP and DFS

KP for Siakam 

THJ a first a first pick swap and 2 seconds for Grant

Luka/FN/Burke
JB/JG/SB
Grant/Bullock
Siakam/MK
MT/Chriss/Brown/Boban/WCS

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

It's gotta be KP/Brunson for Levert/Turner. Rebounding would be an issue just as our offense would take another hit, but defensively it's another step forward with Levert having the size to at least switch and do a decent job.

Luka/Ntilikina
Levert/Green
Bullock/Hardaway
DFS/Kleber
Turner/Powell

I surely hope that if the Mavs are considering a trade that Sabonis is the guy we target. I love Turner but if I had to have my choice though, I go Sabonis. 

Sabonis can play with his back to the basket, set screens, he is everything we need and seems to be missing right now. 

Part of me wonders if we could get those guys on the cheap or one of them on the cheap in exchange for Rick guys.

A rugged Sabonis who rebounds well and operates near the rim needs another big who can stay in front of forwards, can protect the rim, and shoot from 3 decently.
And the Mavs luckily have that guy.

Sabonis+Maxi = perfect fit.

[burekemde]

A rugged Sabonis who rebounds well and operates near the rim needs another big who can stay in front of forwards, can protect the rim, and shoot from 3 decently.
And the Mavs luckily have that guy.

Sabonis+Maxi = perfect fit.

e

Absolutely a great point! Maxi provides exactly that next to Sabonis what you mention. On offense Maxi spreads the floor. While Sabonis sets the amazing screens for Luka and scores inside from Lukas passes and also passes out himself to Brunson and others. Its really a perfect fit on both sides!

Brunson
Luka
DFS
Maxi
Sabonis

This would create a contender. It would create the best flowing offense in the NBA.

[Kammrath]

he can play with his back to the basket

I just went to look at the numbers. FWIW this year Sabonis is 0.86 PPP on post ups (2.9 possessions), MT is 1.15 PPP (1.4 possession), KP is 0.92 PPP (4.5 possessions).

Sabonis was 0.84 PPP last year, KP was 0.98 PPP, MT was 0.93 PPP.

[DanSchwartzgan]

A rugged Sabonis who rebounds well and operates near the rim needs another big who can stay in front of forwards, can protect the rim, and shoot from 3 decently.
And the Mavs luckily have that guy.

Sabonis+Maxi = perfect fit.

As fantasies go, that is a good one.  But, Sabonis is going cost a king's ransom.  On top of that, Turner is the one that seems on the outs with the team and the more likely one to leave.  If Maxi/Sabonis are the perfect fit here, they also fit in Indy.  To me the more likely deal with Indy is for Turner.  It is either a three way with KP going somewhere else or a direct trade and Maxi has to be part of the outgoing.  This isn't because I don't like Maxi.  It is because Indy sees the same thing you do.

You have to add $4.3mm to Maxi to do the deal and I'm not a fan of giving up small salary guys like DFS, Green or Brunson with Maxi.  Expand the deal to make it Maxi and Hardaway (and Moses to make it a 3 for 2)?  I don't think you get LeVert without adding talent, but maybe expiring Lamb.  Maxi/Moses/ThJ for Turner/Lamb would be the most appealing non-KP deal for me.  You can always have one of KP or Turner in the game protecting the rim.  Lamb is a better distributor, but historically a worse 3 point shooter than THJ.  His salary/stature make it easier to bring him off the bench than Hardaway at twice the money.

[burekemde]

I just went to look at the numbers. FWIW this year Sabonis is 0.86 PPP on post ups (2.9 possessions), MT is 1.15 PPP (1.4 possession), KP is 0.92 PPP (4.5 possessions).

Sabonis was 0.84 PPP last year, KP was 0.98 PPP, MT was 0.93 PPP.

What I meant is that in pick and roll, in addition to going to the rim, he can step back and recieve the pass l in the mid range and drive to score. He does that a lot. KP and Powell, almost never. Luka is missing that outlet this manner as none of our players can do something with the ball in those situations. Thats a compltely new dimension he (Sabonis) would give to his team.

[Mikelo]

I think our biggest issues are the rim protection and the 3 shot ... (taking into account our playstyle and superstar) ... Sabonis kills that ... We already have 2 defensive responsibilities in Jalen / Luka starting ... we can't afford more one-way players ... no matter how good it is ... also why destroy the chemistry, now that it starts working (Forgetting that you can't count on Maxi to play 30 minutes per game, at this point in his career) .. We need a striker who sends KP to 5 full time .. Get Boucher / Covington / Warren etc for our discards (MBrown / SBrown / WCS etc) + 2 seconds .. And we will take care of other matters out of season

[Kammrath]

What I meant is that in pick and roll

That makes more sense. He is 1.31 PPP as the roll man, KP is 1.11, MT is 1.19 this year.

And for the record I am not the most familiar with his game, so I am just looking at the numbers blind, so to speak.