2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[Jym]

It's counterintuitive, I know. But, how else do you explain what we're seeing now, in these games, lately? It's the best ball of the season on both ends of the court, and Luka isn't even playing well yet, by his standards.

If we're just going on the past month, you'd be tempted to pick Brunson over Luka as the face of the franchise
He's been the engine orchestrating everything

[KillerLeft]

That you are looking at a very small sample (4 games).  That when Luka and others were out this team held on due mostly to Brunson and KP.  That early in the season the whole team was struggling, and Luka more than KP.  But mostly its the sample.  You can probably find a 4 game stretch in a season for just about every team where they look awesome.  That is just a really small sample to read much into.

Fine, but in this case, the improvements (though in a small sample size, I agree) are the EXACT improvements I expected. So, every game added isn’t learning something new for me, it’s further confirmation of what I thought I already knew. The very definition of confirmation bias, I know. But here we are. 

I also think the team looked better with KP and without Luka (as compared to having both of them). But, the with Luka, w/o KP version is more appealing to me for a myriad of reasons.

Mostly, I think KP has been a dark cloud over this organization for so long that people have forgotten what it’s like not to have your team’s highest paid player be such a constant source of problems. I hope they get a good deal for KP, and I wish him well at his next stop, but more than anything I just want this Hellish nightmare to be over.

[KillerLeft]

If we're just going on the past month, you'd be tempted to pick Brunson over Luka as the face of the franchise
He's been the engine orchestrating everything

Good point, except never, for even one second since coming to Dallas has KP resembled anything I’d want earning max money from my team. I know some might disagree. I HATE his game. I was wrong last year about him never looking better again, I admit it. But now he’s playing “well” again, and I still hate the fit with Luka. The end of this duo can’t come fast enough for me.

[Jym]

Good point, except never, for even one second since coming to Dallas has KP resembled anything I’d want earning max money from my team. I know some might disagree. I HATE his game. I was wrong last year about him never looking better again, I admit it. But now he’s playing “well” again, and I still hate the fit with Luka. The end of this duo can’t come fast enough for me.

I would have considered anyone crazy who suggested that KP would beat Luka in PER, winshare total, and winshare per 48 about halfway through the season
But I do hope the better play just enhances what we get in a deal and not shifts all the way back around to keeping him long term.
I have no doubt they would have moved him over the summer with a GM in place and a decent offer coming their way. I'd rather not rely on his knees and ankles to hold up through a playoff run again.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

How about a 3 way trade with the Magic?

Turner and Gary Harris to the Mavs
Orlando takes on KP and WCS
Indy takes young talent in Bamba, Hampton and Okeke

[DanSchwartzgan]

Seems to me that a deal for Turner would more than likely involve a three-way in which KP was outgoing, which would mean that the Mavs were getting something else back as well.

I tend to agree.  Also, Indy doesn’t tank, so they won’t take a package that is purely picks/prospects.  As I posted yesterday, Bobby Marks thought a Charlotte package would be PJ Washington, vet filler like Plumlee and a future first.  We will have a hard time competing with that without KP being involved.

What about simple 3-way with Charlotte.  Indy gets Hayward, we get Turner and Charlotte gets KP.  I realize Charlotte could cut us out and just do Turner for Hayward.  We would also have to take back additional salary from Indy (Lamb) and send some other stuff to Charlotte.

[Nowitzki Way]

How about a 3 way trade with the Magic?

Turner and Gary Harris to the Mavs
Orlando takes on KP and WCS
Indy takes young talent in Bamba, Hampton and Okeke

I think i'd rather cut out Indiana and take that package from Orlando.

[SamStetz]

https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/...97667?s=20

Anything that involves Mavs is listed below

CELTICS:
Trade we would like to see: Dennis Schroder into the Mavericks' $10.8 million trade exception. The Celtics would get back the Mavericks' second-round picks in 2022 and 2024. This trade would put the Celtics under the luxury tax.

BROOKLYN
Trade we would like to see: Dorian Finney-Smith from Dallas for a 2028 unprotected first. The Nets are clearly all-in, and this would be a huge risk considering that it is unlikely Kevin Durant, Harden and Kyrie Irving will be on the roster in 2028. The positive is that Finney-Smith is an elite level defender and Brooklyn inherits his Bird rights, allowing them to re-sign him in the offseason.

Dallas Mavericks


What to watch: The $10.9 million trade exception.
The Mavericks continue to tread water in the middle of the Western Conference, but they have a valuable trade asset: the $10.9 million exception created last offseason.

Dallas is well positioned below the luxury tax ($16.4 million of room) and can target additional backcourt help for Luka Doncic at the deadline (hello, Dennis Schroder) or wait until the offseason to use the exception.
The rest of the roster outside of Jalen Brunson (a free agent this summer) and Dorian Finney-Smith does not have significant trade value (sorry, Tim Hardaway Jr., Dwight Powell and Reggie Bullock) unless of course Dallas is willing to attach a 2025 or 2027 first-round pick.
Dallas could trade both of those picks, but only if it amends the top-10 protection on the 2023 pick that is owed to New York.
Front-office deadline history: This is the first deadline for Mavericks GM Nico Harrison. The lone trade during his tenure is the deal that sent Josh Richardson to Boston in July for center Moses Brown. The trade helped the Mavericks create their $10.9 million trade exception.


Trade we would like to see: None. Save the trade exception until the offseason. The lone transaction should be Dallas waiving Willie Cauley-Stein (or possibly finding a trade partner) and using the open roster spot to sign Marquese Chriss.
Restrictions/notes
▪
The Mavericks are $16.4 million below the luxury tax.
▪
Doncic has a poison-pill restriction in his contract.
▪
Bullock and Kristaps Porzingis each have a 5% trade bonus. The bonus for Porzingis is voided because it exceeds the maximum salary allowed.
▪
Trey Burke has a 7.5% trade bonus.
▪
Dallas owes New York a first-round pick that is top-10 protected in 2023, 2024 or 2025. The Mavericks are allowed to trade a future first but only two years after that pick is conveyed.

[fifteenth]

CELTICS:
Trade we would like to see: Dennis Schroder into the Mavericks' $10.8 million trade exception. The Celtics would get back the Mavericks' second-round picks in 2022 and 2024. This trade would put the Celtics under the luxury tax.

BROOKLYN
Trade we would like to see: Dorian Finney-Smith from Dallas for a 2028 unprotected first. The Nets are clearly all-in, and this would be a huge risk considering that it is unlikely Kevin Durant, Harden and Kyrie Irving will be on the roster in 2028. The positive is that Finney-Smith is an elite level defender and Brooklyn inherits his Bird rights, allowing them to re-sign him in the offseason.

Thanks, Sam! 

Man, is this what trades look like when they're cooked up by folks that aren't Mavs fans? Both of those are trades are horrible for the Mavs.

[mvossman]

Good point, except never, for even one second since coming to Dallas has KP resembled anything I’d want earning max money from my team. I know some might disagree. I HATE his game. I was wrong last year about him never looking better again, I admit it. But now he’s playing “well” again, and I still hate the fit with Luka. The end of this duo can’t come fast enough for me.

Wow.  The KP hate is strong.  I would find it hard to argue he was not worth his contract the second half of his first year including the bubble.  That contact injury in the playoffs was such bad luck for him and the Mavs.  

So lets say we can't get Simmons, Hayward, Collins or Turner for him.  How far down the list would you go?  CJ McCollum?  How about Holmes/Barnes?  Expirings?

[Mavs32]

I'd be interested in a three way trade with Charlotte.

Charlotte gets KP
Indy gets PJ Washington & THJ (some kind of a pick from Dallas and Charlotte)
Dallas gets Hayward, Turner & TJ Warren

-Charlotte gets a legit all-star caliber frontcourt player with size. Plus they save about $2.4mil that goes towards helping to keep Bridges.

-Indy gets THJ who Carlisle knows well and a young PF that should fit better with Sabonis. Indy also saves $4.6mil towards their cap.  They might want a pick as well.  Not sure if I'm Dallas that I throwing in a first if but i probably end up having to do it. Not sure what kind of draft compensation Charlotte sends them if any.

-Dallas gets a better fit at Center and playmaking/scoring from the front court.  Hayward is the same injury liability as KP but getting Turner makes the roster fit much better and a getting third playmaker in Hayward is huge. plus TJ Warren if he ever gets healthy.

You would have to cut WCS & Chriss.

then you hopefully get Dragic after a buyout and cut Burke.  or you use your TPE to get a bench guard.

Maybe you can trade Sterling or Moses Brown for some front court size at the PF position but its not super crucial.

Gives a nice combo of scoring and defense in you first and second unit.  Lots of flexibility position wise. While clearing up a better runway for Green.

Luka/Dragic/Frank/
Brunson/Green/Brown
Hayward/Bullock/TJ Warren
DFS/Maxi/
Turner/Powell/Brown/Boban/

[KillerLeft]

So lets say we can't get Simmons, Hayward, Collins or Turner for him.  How far down the list would you go?  CJ McCollum?  How about Holmes/Barnes?  Expirings?

Could talk myself into any scenario above.

[Jym]

Thanks, Sam! 

Man, is this what trades look like when they're cooked up by folks that aren't Mavs fans? Both of those are trades are horrible for the Mavs.

Yeah Realgm can fascinating sometimes
Outside fans were discussing a Maxi+Brunson+WCS+1st rounder for Myles Turner trade and the general consensus was "meh. I don't think that's enough for Turner"

[SleepingHero]

Yeah Realgm can fascinating sometimes
Outside fans were discussing a Maxi+Brunson+WCS+1st rounder for Myles Turner trade and the general consensus was "meh. I don't think that's enough for Turner"

Obviously if those people watched at least more than 3 Mavs games they'd realize what coup that'd be.

[Kammrath]

Yeah Realgm can fascinating sometimes
Outside fans were discussing a Maxi+Brunson+WCS+1st rounder for Myles Turner trade and the general consensus was "meh. I don't think that's enough for Turner"

Ha! Which Turner are people watching?!? Certainly not the same one I am!

[mvossman]

I'd be interested in a three way trade with Charlotte.

Charlotte gets KP
Indy gets PJ Washington & THJ (some kind of a pick from Dallas and Charlotte)
Dallas gets Hayward, Turner & TJ Warren

-Charlotte gets a legit all-star caliber frontcourt player with size. Plus they save about $2.4mil that goes towards helping to keep Bridges.

-Indy gets THJ who Carlisle knows well and a young PF that should fit better with Sabonis. Indy also saves $4.6mil towards their cap.  They might want a pick as well.  Not sure if I'm Dallas that I throwing in a first if but i probably end up having to do it. Not sure what kind of draft compensation Charlotte sends them if any.

-Dallas gets a better fit at Center and playmaking/scoring from the front court.  Hayward is the same injury liability as KP but getting Turner makes the roster fit much better and a getting third playmaker in Hayward is huge. plus TJ Warren if he ever gets healthy.

You would have to cut WCS & Chriss.

then you hopefully get Dragic after a buyout and cut Burke.  or you use your TPE to get a bench guard.

Maybe you can trade Sterling or Moses Brown for some front court size at the PF position but its not super crucial.

Gives a nice combo of scoring and defense in you first and second unit.  Lots of flexibility position wise. While clearing up a better runway for Green.

Luka/Dragic/Frank/
Brunson/Green/Brown
Hayward/Bullock/TJ Warren
DFS/Maxi/
Turner/Powell/Brown/Boban/

Charlotte is giving up Hayward, Washington and a pick just to get KP.  That is way too much.  Most folks around here would take just Hayward.

Dallas is not getting Hayward + Turner + Warren just for sending out KP + THJ + Pick (unless by pick you mean 3 firsts, which we don't have)

[Mikelo]

I don't want Turner, having KP .. Then. Maxi / Brunson / WCS + 1 catch you Turner?

Maxi / Brunson / WCS / Dallas 26 to Pacers

Turner to Raptors

Anunoby to Mavs


Who says no?

[Tyler]

Most folks around here would take just Hayward.

Count me out of the "most" category. KP is a better player than Hayward. And Hayward is also older, equally expensive, and just as injury prone. So there's no real upside.

[Mavs32]

Charlotte is giving up Hayward, Washington and a pick just to get KP.  That is way too much.  Most folks around here would take just Hayward.

Dallas is not getting Hayward + Turner + Warren just for sending out KP + THJ + Pick (unless by pick you mean 3 firsts, which we don't have)

why is Charlotte valuing Hayward who can't stay on the court and PJ who is their backup center?  Now Indy would definitely have value for PJ because he should be starting and would do well next to Sabonis.

they have no center of any value and KP would be huge for them. their injury risk portfolio stays the same.  if you think KP is not enough for those two, then you are undervaluing KP for sure.

As for Indy, they get a sg that knows Carlisle and has his trust and PJ plus a pick.  all they give up is Turner who is complaining and is clearly not a fit with their better center in Sabonis.  Not only that but they save money which is big for that franchise.  Indy won't tank but they will need to do something because that roster is not working. With Turner only having one year left after this, if they don't move him this trade deadline they will be lucky to get even this much back.

[KillerLeft]

Most folks around here would take just Hayward.

Hell, you'd have me at Washington if there was a way to make the money work.

(mostly kidding)