2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[Chicagojk]

With the news about re-signing THJ being a priority it seems pretty clear the Mavs want to operate as an over the cap team this summer. I expect them to pursue a sign and trade for one big FA, re-sign THJ, then go after someone with the MLE. Not a bad plan. You have some flexibility there. You could try to get a guard in a SnT then maybe snag Noel with the MLE to be your big. Or just the opposite, get someone like Holmes in SnT and maybe get Dragic with the MLE. As long as Schroeder isn't our big SnT acquisition I'll be happy.

I thought Hardaway was excellent last year, but if he was resigned my grade to the offsesaon would be heavily based on his # and what the other move was.   My thought process is if Hardaway was resigned (and it is going to take over 15 million and probably closer to 20) than you are really limited with your other move.   In an offseason where you have a lot of aggressive teams, I think the Mavs would be left chasing a guy a little over the MLE.   Frankly, that would not be a good enough offseason for me.

Maybe they have a sneaky move up their sleeve, but I have been burned too much.   Eventhough we have a new front office.  Maybe they find a way to free up money for Holmes, but that would still leave us short of another ball creator and my offseason grade would not be strong.    

Losing Hardaway will hurt imo, but my main focus is improving the starting lineup this offseason.   If we re-sign Hardaway, I believe this is going to be very tricky to find additional plus starting talent.

[VintagePejav2]

I don’t believe a Lowry pursuit will end well for the Mavericks. Winning out in a battle with Miami seems very unlikely.

[JamesConway]

https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status...50017?s=21

https://twitter.com/basketballtalk/statu...24769?s=21

[SamStetz]

EDIT: CORRECTIONS (hopefully) MADE ON NEW POST...LEFT THIS HERE FOR REFERENCE

Regardless of whether Dallas operates over or under the cap, when all their main moves are over I'm interested to see what happens with Burke (assuming he isn't outgoing in a S&T for Collins or Lowry). I would like to think that IF he is still on the roster, Dallas would look to move him in a deal that either creates space for the acquiring team or reduces the other team's tax penalty, as this would lower the value required by Dallas to make a deal or perhaps even net a future 2nd round pick. One thing to note: Burke has a 7.5% trade kicker...the salaries I'm looking at for this exercise is from basketball-reference but Burke's salary seems to be different on SportRac and TradeNBA. Anyway, here are 3 of the players/teams that I would look at to facilitate this type of deal:

- LAC for Rajon Rondo: Assuming the Clippers resign Kawhi, and see Ibaka pick up his player option, they are sitting with at least $145 million on the books. This is without Batum and/or Jackson, who will both be difficult to sign because of the Clippers' cap situation. Is there a team with cap space willing to absorb the full $7.5mil Rondo is owed this coming season? With JKidd as our head coach, having worked with Rondo with the Lakers could make this a reality some Mavs fans don't want. A Rondo for Burke deal would free up $4,166,667 next season for the Clippers, giving them a lesser tax penalty, while providing the new Mavs front office with a $7.5 million expiring deal for this upcoming trade deadline.

- MIN for Juan Hernangomez: This would likely take sweeteners from Dallas' end to make a deal work, but the Timberwolves are already at $131 committed for next season without a new deal in place for Vanderbilt. A Hernangomez for Burke deal would free up just under $3.7 million for the T-Wolves. Recent news of the Timberwolves not allowing JH to play in the Olympics could make him available in trade, but my biggest question here is how much value does he have to, say, a Spurs team that gets their offer sheet for Collins matched? They could take his whole deal into cap space without needing to send any salary back, opening up the full $7 million for Minny.

- CLE for Osman: Right now, Cleveland's cap sheet doesn't look too bad. Factor in the likely $20+ million in a new deal for Allen, the $6.7mil for the number 3 overall pick, and uncertain contractual future of Sexton, a deal centered on Burke for Osman would increase Cleveland's space by $4.7 million this up coming season and by just over $3.5 million next season (while coming off the books a whole season early). Osman would fill a need on the wing for the Mavs, and if the Cavs are still unwilling to part with assets to unload Love and/or Prince, this may be a way to save them a few million, while likely netting them a second rounder (or two...cause Dallas likes to send them away in pairs...see both Delon Wright trades)

[F Gump]

Regardless of whether Dallas operates over or under the cap, when all their main moves are over I'm interested to see what happens with Burke (assuming he isn't outgoing in a S&T for Collins or Lowry). I would like to think that IF he is still on the roster, Dallas would look to move him in a deal that either creates space for the acquiring team or reduces the other team's tax penalty, as this would lower the value required by Dallas to make a deal or perhaps even net a future 2nd round pick. One thing to note: Burke has a 7.5% trade kicker...the salaries I'm looking at for this exercise is from basketball-reference but Burke's salary seems to be different on SportRac and TradeNBA. Anyway, here are 3 of the players/teams that I would look at to facilitate this type of deal:

- LAC for Rajon Rondo: Assuming the Clippers resign Kawhi, and see Ibaka pick up his player option, they are sitting with at least $145 million on the books. This is without Batum and/or Jackson, who will both be difficult to sign because of the Clippers' cap situation. Is there a team with cap space willing to absorb the full $7.5mil Rondo is owed this coming season? With JKidd as our head coach, having worked with Rondo with the Lakers could make this a reality some Mavs fans don't want. A Rondo for Burke deal would free up $4,166,667 next season for the Clippers, giving them a lesser tax penalty, while providing the new Mavs front office with a $7.5 million expiring deal for this upcoming trade deadline.

- MIN for Juan Hernangomez: This would likely take sweeteners from Dallas' end to make a deal work, but the Timberwolves are already at $131 committed for next season without a new deal in place for Vanderbilt. A Hernangomez for Burke deal would free up just under $3.7 million for the T-Wolves. Recent news of the Timberwolves not allowing JH to play in the Olympics could make him available in trade, but my biggest question here is how much value does he have to, say, a Spurs team that gets their offer sheet for Collins matched? They could take his whole deal into cap space without needing to send any salary back, opening up the full $7 million for Minny.

- CLE for Osman: Right now, Cleveland's cap sheet doesn't look too bad. Factor in the likely $20+ million in a new deal for Allen, the $6.7mil for the number 3 overall pick, and uncertain contractual future of Sexton, a deal centered on Burke for Osman would increase Cleveland's space by $4.7 million this up coming season and by just over $3.5 million next season (while coming off the books a whole season early). Osman would fill a need on the wing for the Mavs, and if the Cavs are still unwilling to part with assets to unload Love and/or Prince, this may be a way to save them a few million, while likely netting them a second rounder (or two...cause Dallas likes to send them away in pairs...see both Delon Wright trades)

It's an interesting concept, but it looks to me like the most extreme application would only save another team less than 3M in salary, which gets whittled down even more once the trade kicker cap hit is applied to the cap of the other team.

And unless I'm missing something in your proposal, or in the math, Burke isn't a salary match for any of those players mentioned. Not even close.

[SamStetz]

It's an interesting concept, but it looks to me like the most extreme application would only save another team less than 3M in salary, which gets whittled down even more once the trade kicker cap hit is applied to the cap of the other team.

And unless I'm missing something in your proposal, or in the math, Burke isn't a salary match for any of those players mentioned. Not even close.

I do believe that incoming/outgoing salary can have up to a 5 million differential? Unless the few examples I’ve seen in the past just happened to be a difference of 5 million, in which case I’d need to go back and re-look at the salaries (and exercise as a whole)

Edit: Different NBA Trade sites have different results on the Osman idea, and I did see that the rule is 175% of current salary + $100k...not sure where I found the 5mil rule but I will be sure to remember that, thank you!

[SamStetz]

This is good brain exercise for me
Let's look at it this way then, since I've talked myself into the Osman idea and would like others to join me.
- Burke can be traded for a salary of no more than $5,612,500 (assuming the Spotrac salary of $3,150,000 is correct, as I have seen it listed as $3,333,333 on basketball-reference...this post will use salaries shown on Spotrac, since some are the same as basketball reference and others are very similar).
- This significantly limits the idea of the Rondo trade, for example, since Rondo is not a player Dallas would look to use cap space on. I'll focus on Osman since he is my favorite of the 3 targets and someone that Dallas would conceivably spend cap space and/or MLE room on.
- Osman, according to Spotrac, makes $8,133,334
- Dallas could elect to operate with the $34.4 million in cap space (assume JRich opts out/is traded and the TO on WCS is not picked up). Signing Collins for his max of $28,103,750 leaves $6,296,250. (If Kleber is part of a S&T, then Dallas gains $8,750,000 in space for a total of $15,046,250).
- As long as Dallas leaves $2,520,834 left in cap space to absorb the difference in Burke's $5,612,500 tradable salary and Osman's $8,133,334, they could spend up to $12,525,416 on another FA (THJ on a 1+1 deal?)
- Dallas would be able to take Osman into cap space and send out just Burke, resulting in a TPE of $2,520,834 for Cleveland (as long as it is legal to trade Burke at $5,612,500, with the other $2,520,834 required for exact salary matching to come in remaining cap space...not sure if I've seen this before and couldn't figure out how to word it when trying to look it up)
- Off-season additions would be Collins, Osman, $12mil FA, rMLE

[DanSchwartzgan]

I do believe that incoming/outgoing salary can have up to a 5 million differential? Unless the few examples I’ve seen in the past just happened to be a difference of 5 million, in which case I’d need to go back and re-look at the salaries (and exercise as a whole)

#86 of the FAQ

For non-taxpaying teams (again, they must be under the tax level after the trade), the salaries that can be acquired depend on the total salaries the team is trading away:

Non-Taxpaying Teams

Outgoing salary                                   Maximum incoming salary

$0 to $6,533,333                                  175% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,0005

$6,533,334 to $19.6 million                   The outgoing salary plus $5 million5

$19.6 million and up                              125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000

 

[SamStetz]

#86 of the FAQ

For non-taxpaying teams (again, they must be under the tax level after the trade), the salaries that can be acquired depend on the total salaries the team is trading away:

Non-Taxpaying Teams

Outgoing salary                                   Maximum incoming salary

$0 to $6,533,333                                  175% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,0005

$6,533,334 to $19.6 million                   The outgoing salary plus $5 million5

$19.6 million and up                              125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000

 

Thanks Dan! I must’ve been looking at/thinking of all the $6,533,334 to $19.6 million trades 

[DanSchwartzgan]

- As long as Dallas leaves $2,520,834 left in cap space to absorb the difference in Burke's $5,612,500 tradable salary and Osman's $8,133,334, they could spend up to $12,525,416 on another FA (THJ on a 1+1 deal?)

If I'm following, you are trying to use the 175% trade spread and fill the rest of the need with space.  It doesn't work that way.  The incoming player either fits in the 175% + $100k spread or the entire gap has to be available via cap space.  So, depending on what number you use for Burke, it will take about $5mm of space to trade for Cedi.

[SamStetz]

If I'm following, you are trying to use the 175% trade spread and fill the rest of the need with space.  It doesn't work that way.  The incoming player either fits in the 175% + $100k spread or the entire gap has to be available via cap space.  So, depending on what number you use for Burke, it will take about $5mm of space to trade for Cedi.

Well dang...that negates my attempted work around   
Unless they value whoever they can get with $10mil (likely not THJ) + Osman that much, it doesn’t look like this will work out the way I was hoping it would...

Maybe the other option would be to stay above the cap, and send Burke with someone that is S&T for Osman (Redick wouldn’t go there, I’d like to keep Bey, that leaves WCS? Hinton? not many options there either)...

HUGE thanks to you and @"F Gump" for the cap rules/tips... gonna make sure I keep those handy for future suggestions

[SkenfromLMF]

This is good brain exercise for me
Let's look at it this way then, since I've talked myself into the Osman idea and would like others to join me.
- Burke can be traded for a salary of no more than $5,612,500 (assuming the Spotrac salary of $3,150,000 is correct, as I have seen it listed as $3,333,333 on basketball-reference...this post will use salaries shown on Spotrac, since some are the same as basketball reference and others are very similar).
- This significantly limits the idea of the Rondo trade, for example, since Rondo is not a player Dallas would look to use cap space on. I'll focus on Osman since he is my favorite of the 3 targets and someone that Dallas would conceivably spend cap space and/or MLE room on.
- Osman, according to Spotrac, makes $8,133,334
- Dallas could elect to operate with the $34.4 million in cap space (assume JRich opts out/is traded and the TO on WCS is not picked up). Signing Collins for his max of $28,103,750 leaves $6,296,250. (If Kleber is part of a S&T, then Dallas gains $8,750,000 in space for a total of $15,046,250).
- As long as Dallas leaves $2,520,834 left in cap space to absorb the difference in Burke's $5,612,500 tradable salary and Osman's $8,133,334, they could spend up to $12,525,416 on another FA (THJ on a 1+1 deal?)
- Dallas would be able to take Osman into cap space and send out just Burke, resulting in a TPE of $2,520,834 for Cleveland (as long as it is legal to trade Burke at $5,612,500, with the other $2,520,834 required for exact salary matching to come in remaining cap space...not sure if I've seen this before and couldn't figure out how to word it when trying to look it up)
- Off-season additions would be Collins, Osman, $12mil FA, rMLE

One of the Cardinal Rules of the Cap is that exceptions cannot be combined.
Burke's tradable salary is ~ $3,333,333 for 21-22 THEREFORE the trade must be legal using that salary and 175% +100k, or cap space minus that salary alone.
The trade kicker is (to my recollection) not allowed to be used in the traded salary from Dallas, but IS counted as incoming salary across remaining guaranteed years of the contract ( http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q100 )

[VintagePejav2]

Shams has been exposing the latest framework over the last few days.

KP for Lowry.
Cap space consumed by Holmes and THJ (JRich miraculously opts out and “bye!” WCS).

I thought Nico had tight lips. Well, it is all about execution now.

[sterlingmallory]

Shams has been exposing the latest framework over the last few days.

KP for Lowry.
Cap space consumed by Holmes and THJ (JRich miraculously opts out and “bye!” WCS).

I thought Nico had tight lips. Well, it is all about execution now.

I thought Conley and Oubre was the plan?

[SkenfromLMF]

Not sure about Shams' relationship to Nico, but if he is right... he will immediately leap Stein as the primary source regarding the Mavs official unofficial announcements.

[VintagePejav2]

I thought Conley and Oubre was the plan?

There are murmurs of a change in direction. #nicochangeseverything

[DanSchwartzgan]

I thought Conley and Oubre was the plan?

Please try to keep up

Actually, you could do his latest Lowry/Holmes/THJ deal and if JRich opts in you could deal him for Oubre.  You just need Holmes and THJ to split $30 million or send out some additional salary to the tune of about $10mm.

And the Oscar goes to...Jason Kidd.

[Kammrath]

KP for Lowry.
Cap space consumed by Holmes and THJ

Holmes makes it worth it if Lowry is on a TWO year deal (want a shot at 2023 free agent class).

I desperately want to see Luka and Holmes work the pick and roll. Will be magic. Luka has another gear to unlock once he gets an elite roll man alongside him.

[Branduil]

Holmes makes it worth it if Lowry is on a TWO year deal (want a shot at 2023 free agent class).

I desperately want to see Luka and Holmes work the pick and roll. Will be magic. Luka has another gear to unlock once he gets an elite roll man alongside him.

Lowry/Luka/THJ/DFS/Holmes would certainly be an interesting lineup.

[Scott41theMavs]

Cap space consumed by Holmes and THJ (JRich miraculously opts out and “bye!” WCS).

$30M in cap space with 18 for Holmes and 12 for THJ sounds about right.