2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[Kammrath]

they should have known the quality of the player they have long before then and extended him

But players grow up immensely in short periods of time sometimes. JB took a HUGE leap this year into a level and tier I personally could never imagine for him. Teams often make mistakes by committing too early to "potential" and getting burned by the contract. Damned if you, damned if you don't.

[ItsGoTime]

Ya, JB at the max extension should have been a no brainer for them. I suppose extending DP and then him tearing his achilles has made MC gun shy, but JB even as a bad playoff player was still worth that max (what is it again? $13/14M?). There were rumors leading back to last offseason, at least, that NY wanted JB. That alone makes the decision easy, especially the second time JB’s camp came asking for it!

[HoosierDaddyKid]

No matter what happens, the Mavs $h!t the bed with Jalen. He’s obviously been the second best player on the roster since his rookie year and should have been signed long term long ago.

His Dad Rick said as much. When DFS signed his extension, Rick thought Dallas should have extended Jalen as well. He made the comment that Jalen wasn't giving them a "Hometown Discount" when it was time to re-sign. He said Dallas is going to pay dearly for not offering him that extension. Now that he's Thib's assistant in NY, they are a threat to sign him whether you want to believe it or not.

[HAguiar95]

In case of we getting a TPE via S&T for Brunson, what's the size of that TPE? Been toying with the idea and there are a few guys that could fit here and we shouldn't give up so much value.

[Mavs2021]

In case of we getting a TPE via S&T for Brunson, what's the size of that TPE? Been toying with the idea and there are a few guys that could fit here and we shouldn't give up so much value.

TPE is useless. Like I said Noel to the Bulls and White to the Mavs should be the floor here. Bulls need a center. We need a guard. They don´t want to extend White next summer. Noel is 1+1 cost controlled. It just makes too much sense for everybody involved.

White is just 22 years old. In his 2nd season he was averaging 14/4/4 before the shoulder injury derailed him.

That´s the kind of bet you take, if you lose Brunson due to your own ineptitude.

[loki]

But players grow up immensely in short periods of time sometimes. JB took a HUGE leap this year into a level and tier I personally could never imagine for him. Teams often make mistakes by committing too early to "potential" and getting burned by the contract. Damned if you, damned if you don't.

I don't believe their hesitation was about the money. They also waited to extend DFS until after the trade deadline and he didn't have nearly the leap that JB did. I believe they knew Brunson was worth the max extension well ahead of time.

They waited because they were shopping them both as trade bait. This never made sense to me because they would not have accepted any trade that returned lesser players or draft picks (apparently a lotto pick was offered for Dorian and NY offered the 23 Dallas 1st for JB). The only deal they would have taken would have been for a clear cut upgrade. Who would have given a player of that caliber for an expiring DFS or Brunson? No one I can think of.

So instead of taking the sure thing, Cuban gambled for a trade that was never going to happen and got burned. Now we pray he doesn't make the situation worse by letting NY outbid him.

[ThisIStheYear]

But players grow up immensely in short periods of time sometimes. JB took a HUGE leap this year into a level and tier I personally could never imagine for him. Teams often make mistakes by committing too early to "potential" and getting burned by the contract. Damned if you, damned if you don't.

Nah.  He’s pretty much the same player this year as last, he just played more minutes.  And he was playing a fair number of minutes even then, so there was no reason to think he couldn’t handle more. I’ve always thought he’s been the second best player on the team. It wasn’t that difficult of an evaluation to make when you’re just talking about $14 million a year. His value easily exceeded his extension price.  The Mavs missed big either way this free agency turns out.

[ThisIStheYear]

And looking at his PER 36 counting stats and more advanced stats, he’s freaking exactly the same player except for the minutes.  It’s uncanny.  To me, this means he is what he is now and probably isn’t getting better.  He’s worth way more than his extension and always has been, but probably not as much as he’s about to get (probably just under $30 million annually), and the Mavs are in a pickle.  I just hope they come out of this with a positive asset at this point, whether it’s Jalen or not.

[Chicagojk]

Nah.  He’s pretty much the same player this year as last, he just played more minutes.  And he was playing a fair number of minutes even then, so there was no reason to think he couldn’t handle more. I’ve always thought he’s been the second best player on the team. It wasn’t that difficult of an evaluation to make when you’re just talking about $14 million a year. His value easily exceeded his extension price.  The Mavs missed big either way this free agency turns out.

Yep, I totally agree.  Jalen took a lot of heat for his performance against the Clippers last playoff.  He didn't play great.  But that was a tough matchup for him.  More importantly, he wasn't given the chance to play through mistakes.  The last several games he averaged like 15 minutes per game.  If you are a competitor like Jalen, I am sure you look at that and know you need to be better.  But also believe he wasn't done any favors.  

I really hope Nico is the guy to develop relationships with the players.   I have no hope of Cuban doing this.   We will see about Nico.  I was always worried the Mavs weren't doing the work behind the scenes.   I think Coach Kidd did his part with Jalen this year.   Although, look what has happened over the last year.  Jalen took a lot of bullets for his performance against the Clippers.  Then Dallas made a very public run at Lowry.    Then apparently, there was no offer to Jalen prior to the season or at the beginning of the year (this is such a big miss imo).  Mavs traded for Dinwiddie and while the Mavs never said this, some reported it as Jalen insurance.   There is a lot of stuff there.   You never know what things players will get players attention.   For instance, there was a game late in the year when Luka made a public glare/reaction when Jalen was not in the right spot.   Sometimes small things like that can become bigger things.  Jalen and Luka are pretty close and Jalen is tough, so I don't think it would cause an issue.   But you always have to aware of things like that.  You never know.

[Chicagojk]

Drafted players can decline Two-way spots right?  It will be interesting to see what happens with Jaden.  If he was the Mavs 19th rated player, they may have a hard time getting him to agree on a two way.  Maybe if he was more of an unknown name.    But I could definately see him resisting a two way spot.  

Lets thinks positive, If Jalen is resigned.  That would leave two spots.    If the Mavs fill one spot, than it should be fine.  But if it is two spots, I wonder if Frankie spot may be in jeopardy...,not accounting for any trades.

[Jmaciscool]

I don't believe their hesitation was about the money. They also waited to extend DFS until after the trade deadline and he didn't have nearly the leap that JB did. I believe they knew Brunson was worth the max extension well ahead of time.

They waited because they were shopping them both as trade bait. This never made sense to me because they would not have accepted any trade that returned lesser players or draft picks (apparently a lotto pick was offered for Dorian and NY offered the 23 Dallas 1st for JB). The only deal they would have taken would have been for a clear cut upgrade. Who would have given a player of that caliber for an expiring DFS or Brunson? No one I can think of.

So instead of taking the sure thing, Cuban gambled for a trade that was never going to happen and got burned. Now we pray he doesn't make the situation worse by letting NY outbid him.

I think - and I could be misremembering here - that the Mavs didn't extend JB because the max extension they could offer was less than what he would get on the open market.

Am I remembering that right or am I forgetting something?

[omahen]

I think - and I could be misremembering here - that the Mavs didn't extend JB because the max extension they could offer was less than what he would get on the open market.

Am I remembering that right or am I forgetting something?

According to Brunsons dad, his camp proposed the max extension in January and Dallas declined because they wanted to keep flexibility. If true, big mistake by Nico

[Mavs2021]

Drafted players can decline Two-way spots right?  It will be interesting to see what happens with Jaden.  If he was the Mavs 19th rated player, they may have a hard time getting him to agree on a two way.  Maybe if he was more of an unknown name.    But I could definately see him resisting a two way spot.  

Lets thinks positive, If Jalen is resigned.  That would leave two spots.    If the Mavs fill one spot, than it should be fine.  But if it is two spots, I wonder if Frankie spot may be in jeopardy...,not accounting for any trades.

There is no way you trade two 2nd round picks, publically rate him 19th on your board and then embarrass the player by trying to sign him to a two way deal. He´d decline it and the wrath of Klutch would come down on us.

He gets a four year deal and one of the 15 roster spots.

[Jmaciscool]

According to Brunsons dad, his camp proposed the max extension in January and Dallas declined because they wanted to keep flexibility. If true, big mistake by Nico

Gotcha, yeah if that's the case then that was a mistake

[omahen]

(1) MFFL on Twitter: "Nah I’m sick ? #MFFL https://t.co/SHEQG6x8gP" / Twitter

[SleepingHero]

Easy to look back in hindsight and chastise the Mavs for not signing Brunson to that 4/55 extension in the summer.

Dude just came out of the playoffs shitting the bed and was locked down by the Clippers. Even in the regular season that year Brunson was good but nothing special. 

He stepped up at the beginning of this season and showed his worth. I really have a hard time buying Rick Brunson's story about him going back to Dallas in January again for a 4/55 offer. It would've been a no brainer for the Mavs to sign him at that point, but it would've been a monumentally stupid decision for JB to sign it. 

Also why is his dad negotiating his contract? He's not his agent. 

2 sides to every story.

[DanSchwartzgan]

(1) MFFL on Twitter: "Nah I’m sick ? #MFFL https://t.co/SHEQG6x8gP" / Twitter

So, the bad news from this clip, if true, is that Dallas treated JB like a business decision in prioritizing TDL flexibility over his desire for security.  A piece of meat.  Many here say things like "I'm sure Brunson will be loyal", I'm sure he likes it here" and "I'm sure he'd prefer to play with his friends".  If I'm putting out an "I'm sure" statement it is that "I'm sure Brunson will treat Dallas no different than Dallas treated him".  This is a business decision...the most important one of his life.  I don't believe the 5th year means anything as I suspect even a four year deal will have a PO after three.

Now the good news...Again, if MacMahon's information is good, Dallas continues to seek the deal to pair a real star with Luka.  There won't be a better time for a PR victory than to rebound from a PR nightmare of losing Brunson for nothing.  So, something bigger than who we might get for the TP-MLE is probably coming if Brunson does indeed walk.

[KillerLeft]

2 sides to every story.

Very true. 

I continue to hope this is all posturing and that we'll reach the right outcome.

[jdb152]

I think - and I could be misremembering here - that the Mavs didn't extend JB because the max extension they could offer was less than what he would get on the open market.

Am I remembering that right or am I forgetting something?

By the time he had proven that he was a winning piece under Kidd, there was no way JB would have accepted the max they could offer in season, 4/55ish. In fact, DAL probably reasoned offering that amount would be considered an insult. So, I don't lose any sleep over that and, let's be honest, had they inked him to that deal last summer this board would have been screaming about how horrible the contract was. JB is his own man. I don't listen to player's Dads. There is nothing in his DNA, as a player, that suggests he would leave the winning situation where he'll be paid more for the losing situation(ie 1 series win in 23 years in NY) to make less.

[Mavs2021]

So, the bad news from this clip, if true, is that Dallas treated JB like a business decision in prioritizing TDL flexibility over his desire for security.  A piece of meat.  Many here say things like "I'm sure Brunson will be loyal", I'm sure he likes it here" and "I'm sure he'd prefer to play with his friends".  If I'm putting out an "I'm sure" statement it is that "I'm sure Brunson will treat Dallas no different than Dallas treated him".  This is a business decision...the most important one of his life.  I don't believe the 5th year means anything as I suspect even a four year deal will have a PO after three.

Now the good news...Again, if MacMahon's information is good, Dallas continues to seek the deal to pair a real star with Luka.  There won't be a better time for a PR victory than to rebound from a PR nightmare of losing Brunson for nothing.  So, something bigger than who we might get for the TP-MLE is probably coming if Brunson does indeed walk.

Yeah but we hope it´s Lavine or Beal, when the most likely outcome is Irving. And honestly I´d prefer Westbrook over him. If the Knicks sign Brunson, I´ll make a wager on Irving to Dallas.

The funniest part is that, if we had signed Collins instead of THJ last summer, we could probably trade him for Ayton right now. Hell I´d argue that Markkanen and a pick could probably get you Ayton. Ayton and Luka are always very friendly/respectful toward each other. That´s why I said last summer that we should sign a young player, who has re-trade value rather than THJ.