The last 2 NBA champions

[Branduil]

Have both won by going "small," benching their starting center and protecting the rim with an elite PF.

Centers are still important for the regular season/certain matchups, but it's pretty clear where the NBA is moving. This is exactly why I'd go all-in on Collins... I don't think he'll ever be close to as good defensively as Giannis or AD, but he's at least the type of big man you can keep on the floor in the playoffs.

[KillerLeft]

I don't think he'll ever be close to as good defensively as Giannis or AD

That's just it, though. Sadly, I don't think he'll be enough, or even close to it. 

I so, so, so wish KP was who we thought he would be on the defensive end. THAT was the dream when they traded for him, imo, and all of this crap everyone debates about how many post ups he gets are just a meaningless diversion from the real problem. 

The Mavs have Luka, so check. Who IS going to be comparable on defense to AD/Giannis? Or at least remotely close? That's where my mind would be if I were Nico Harrison right now.

[cow]

Who IS going to be comparable on defense to AD/Giannis? Or at least remotely close? 

Dallas version of the Twin Towers.

[ClutchDirk]

Dallas version of the Twin Towers.

https://media.giphy.com/media/PHeIue5jYtd4s/giphy.gif

[Kammrath]

all-in on Collins

[Branduil]

That's just it, though. Sadly, I don't think he'll be enough, or even close to it. 

I so, so, so wish KP was who we thought he would be on the defensive end. THAT was the dream when they traded for him, imo, and all of this crap everyone debates about how many post ups he gets are just a meaningless diversion from the real problem. 

The Mavs have Luka, so check. Who IS going to be comparable on defense to AD/Giannis? Or at least remotely close? That's where my mind would be if I were Nico Harrison right now.

He might not be, but I'd sure rather try that than KP/Boban again

[ClutchDirk]

The Collinator will prove the doubters wrong...

[SwisherPrice]

Not sure about John Collins but I do know that it's still all about defense and 2-way players. The Bucks Big Three can play on both ends of the floor. Giannis and Holiday are All-NBA Defense caliber defenders and Middleton is solid too.

LeBron and AD were also All-NBA Defense-caliber players. The Raptors had Kawhi, Van Vleet, Lowry, Ibaka, Gasol. Warriors had Klay, Draymond, Iguodala.

Considering Luka will never be that type of player, it's going to take a lot of defensive upgrades over the years.

[cow]

Middleton is solid too.

I think that's underselling him a touch.

I don't think Collins has the build to be a super impactful 4/5 on defense.

[ItsGoTime]

I think that's underselling him a touch.

I don't think Collins has the build to be a super impactful 4/5 on defense.

Nope, but Portis does!

[cow]

Nope, but Portis does!

I wouldn't mind Portis as part of my pu pu platter wish list along with D12 and Nerlens.

[Jommybone]

Who is the next Giannis/AD? A guy who is 6’11 and athletic enough to take you off the dribble, switch onto guards, and defend the rim? Could there be someone like that available on the trade market? Someone who has worn out his welcome in Philly? Someone who might learn to sink his free throws a la Giannis at just the right time?

[cow]

Who is the next Giannis/AD? A guy who is 6’11 and athletic enough to take you off the dribble, switch onto guards, and defend the rim? Could there be someone like that available on the trade market? Someone who has worn out his welcome in Philly? Someone who might learn to sink his free throws a la Giannis at just the right time?

Can't afford him.

[ItsGoTime]

Also, defense is far from dead!

[cow]

Also, defense is far from dead!

Thought this was interesting about Game 6:

3PA/M:  6/25 (Suns), 6/27 (Bucks)

[Dahlsim]

Have both won by going "small," benching their starting center and protecting the rim with an elite PF.

Centers are still important for the regular season/certain matchups, but it's pretty clear where the NBA is moving. This is exactly why I'd go all-in on Collins... I don't think he'll ever be close to as good defensively as Giannis or AD, but he's at least the type of big man you can keep on the floor in the playoffs.

Centers are still important for the regular season/certain matchups

Actually the role of the centers and the ability to go BIG or small in the rotation was a huge factor in this playoff.
Brook Lopez was great in this series and without D'Andre Ayton the Suns don't make the finals.
I'm not sure how you define small ball.
Lopez a 7 footer played over 26 min AND Bobby Portis who is 6'10" played a critical role for the Bucks playoffs and those guys are on top of Giannis.
In fact by the end you could see Monty trying to figure out a way to match size up by bringing in Frank Kaminsky for some key minutes but the Bucks had the better big rotation talent.

In fact I don't see anything 'small' about Milwaukee's rotation except that are talented to enough to match up with every type of rotation.  They could go big and out-size your Ayton, who was a real problem for Sun's opponents but then they could as you say take the traditional 5 off the floor and play Giannis supported by guys like Porter and a big guard Jrue Holiday.

Giannis is an incredibly versatile big, who can play in the middle or handle the ball so he defies even using the word 'small ball' but even with that the Bucks were the bigger team here which allowed them to play BIG or small because they could force the rotation and match up as needed.
Giannis took the Suns inside or outside and could play on the floor at the same time as 7 foot Lopez for stretches.

Brook Lopez reminded us that he has been an NBA All star himself and had developed his game to score both outside and inside because he has always been an excellent inside and post up player.
The Bucks had pure talent and in fact all of Giannis/Middleton/Holiday and Lopez have been NBA All Stars.

That's 4 guys with All star type talent and none of them really 'small' for their position btw.

Small ball rotations have to be available to your team because you can't just dominate with the best center anymore. That much has changed. 
The team has to be able to match up big or small but if the opponents small ball team is better than yours talent wise then going small isn't an answer to anything.  You still have to be the better team and put the better talent on the floor because 29 other small ball teams went home losers. Two teams with Elite center talent were in the finals.

The centers don't dominate as in prior NBA generations but they are still easily and often the key difference between 1 small ball team winning and another losing.

[khaled1987]

If you want to be a champion,  you have to learn from other champions but don't try to copy them.
That is the recipe for always being good play off team but never a finalist IMO.

You have to build your own identity and force other mediocre front offices to copy you

[Branduil]

You're correct that Lopez was an important player for the Bucks in this postseason, however I'd point out that in pretty much every 4th quarter this series, when a championship was on the line, the Bucks took him off the floor. Portis is a good player, and Giannis is obviously a generational talent. My point was not "big men bad" but that your bigs must be skilled and able to stay on the floor defensively. Traditional centers are not dead, exactly, but it's a mistake to pay big money to them if they can't punish small ball. Lopez makes $13 million this year- I think that's a fair value. I would not go over that kind of money for any traditional center.

[Dahlsim]

You're correct that Lopez was an important player for the Bucks in this postseason, however I'd point out that in pretty much every 4th quarter this series, when a championship was on the line, the Bucks took him off the floor. Portis is a good player, and Giannis is obviously a generational talent. My point was not "big men bad" but that your bigs must be skilled and able to stay on the floor defensively.

Traditional centers are not dead, exactly, but it's a mistake to pay big money to them if they can't punish small ball. Lopez makes $13 million this year- I think that's a fair value. I would not go over that kind of money for any traditional center.

Ok, however I see the 4th quarter rotation like the rest of the game all about matchups along with the score and clock situation.  Yes you have to be able to defend.  You also have to be able to score, depending on the score and clock.  If you're behind for instance like the Suns were by the closing minutes, you can't defend your way to a victory.

When the Bucks were behind, which they were earlier, they needed to get stops but they also needed scoring advantages which guys like Lopez and Portis alongside Giannis gave them high percentage buckets.
If you're ahead like Milwaukee was by the end, you need to defend especially against the 3 point threats so you take your 5 out and chase all the shooters all the way out beyond the arc while the other team is trying to open up 3's and get uptempo fast scoring.

Traditional centers aren't even traditional anymore so not sure what that is.  Lopez is now both a post threat as he always was but he's also stretch 5 threat for 3 pointers.   Not traditional because the big centers that used to dominate didn't shoot 3's, even if they could have.

Is Jokic a traditional center?  Embiid?  All effective centers have had to adjust their game to the small ball 3 point dominant pace and space era. Adams is working on his 3 point shooting evidently and Boban shoots 3's in his international play.

[michaeltex]

The Collinator will prove the doubters wrong...

I'd like to think so.

But if we pay him what is expected to be his price tag and he turns into a collander instead....

But he's probably worth the gamble.