Rate Donnie Nelson and Mark Cuban's job performance over the last 2 years

[Branduil]

Poll thread

[ThisIStheYear]

The Mavs went out and retooled the wing position in the off-season specifically because of what they experienced against the Clippers last year. They gave up useful assets in Wright and Seth, who both played pretty well this year.  And they also used a first round pick to bolster the position. What did they get to help against the Clippers for round two this year?  Almost nothing. Whiff.

[loki]

An F is pretty tempting based on this series. They don't have a single reliable rotation player to show for the last two offseasons.

[ClutchDirk]

DFS and THJ hate detected...

[HAguiar95]

After the 2018 draft, it's an F. I think we lost every single trade (KP, J-Rich, Barnes, Wright), we had cap and did nothing. Added no impact player. Our rotation is basically the same as the last two years (Luka, THJ, Powell, Maxi, DFS, JB, KP). How is that possible?

[ItsGoTime]

Our rotation is basically the same as the last two years (Luka, THJ, Powell, Maxi, DFS, JB, KP). How is that possible?

Isn’t that the continuity people have clamored for? How much more do we need before we see the writing on the wall?

[F Gump]

DFS and THJ hate detected...

LOL so true. After a win, it's entirely different. After a loss, all is awful and there's nothing good in the world for the Mavs. Never mind the fact that they have a formidable opponent in the Clipps and are good enough to play them to a coin toss in game after game, and basically a whole series.

I thought the Mavs were good enough to win but their inexperience showed last night - it felt like they played scared of the moment and kinda choked trying to make baskets in crunch time. But there's no substitute for experience, other than experience. Hopefully that game will be a stepping stone to a better outcome in another try. It's not like they can't win in LA.

[KillerLeft]

DFS and THJ hate detected...

I'm ride or die for both of those guys, at this point. 

I don't think they're untouchable or anything, and in the right trade I'd be alright with them leaving. But to not understand what those two dudes have meant to the team becoming a playoff team again these past two years seems willfully ignorant. 

In my mind, they are the Mavs' 2nd and 3rd best players. I don't see them as passing through - I see them as Mavericks worthy of remembering for a long time.

---

I thought the Mavs were good enough to win but their inexperience showed last night - it felt like they played scared of the moment and kinda choked trying to make baskets in crunch time. But there's no substitute for experience, other than experience. Hopefully that game will be a stepping stone to a better outcome in another try. It's not like they can't win in LA.

Bravo. What a great point, and something that fans don't often think about.

[ItsGoTime]

LOL so true. After a win, it's entirely different. After a loss, all is awful and there's nothing good in the world for the Mavs. Never mind the fact that they have a formidable opponent in the Clipps and are good enough to play them to a coin toss in game after game, and basically a whole series.

I thought the Mavs were good enough to win but their inexperience showed last night - it felt like they played scared of the moment and kinda choked trying to make baskets in crunch time. But there's no substitute for experience, other than experience. Hopefully that game will be a stepping stone to a better outcome in another try. It's not like they can't win in LA.

That’s two offseasons to acquire guys that have playoff experience to make up for those who don’t and are permanently on the team. We’re giving a bunch of closing prime aged guys playoff experience, what is that endgame?

Edit: If our guys were Memphis aged, that is understandable.

[MAVS-SLO]

An F. 

- After 2018 draft and KP & THJ trade they just stop upgrading a roster.

- Leaving in FA dreams of Giannis, Gobert, Kawhi and others while other players signed with other teams.

- Losing important rotational player (Curry) for a player who now barely haw impact on the court (J-Rich).

- Spending 2020 draft capital for nothing.

- Not being able to upgrade a roster even with rotational/starter level type of players.

The results of last 2 years are mainly result of players improvment and not result of work of FO. FO stopped improving a roster after KP & THJ trade.

[KillerLeft]

- After 2018 draft and KP & THJ trade they just stop upgrading a roster.

- Leaving in FA dreams of Giannis, Gobert, Kawhi and others while other players signed with other teams.

I think this is true, though you can look at it from different angles and form different opinions about the validity of it as an approach. 

I think in the last two off-seasons, there was a top level of transaction they were after - to bring in players of a certain difference making ability. In both cases, they were unsuccessful at that level (F). But, rather than move on to a slightly lesser tier of acquisition, they elected to skip down several tiers to "value signings" after weighing those 2nd-3rd tier options against what they perceived to be real opportunity in future off-seasons (until Luka's extension) to try for those tier 1 guys again. 

Ultimately, it seems like almost all (if not all) of those hypothetical future tier 1 guys came off the board, one by one, and the result is that they might not even get a chance to get turned down by any of them in free agency. That's unfortunate. Also, while some of the "value signings" they've made to move slightly forward while still maintaining flexibility have worked out well, some of them have turned out to be utterly unsuccessful, too. 

At the end of the day, Luka will sign that extension, and then the people who have yearned for an approach that improves the team in the most obvious (but possibly frustratingly slow and limited) way at each opportunity will probably begin to get their wish, as that will be the only option moving forward (especially if KP and his money are still here, on the books). Alternatively, they might find a way to remove KP from the books and replace his salary with Luka's squeezing some more flexibility out of the next couple of seasons. 

What I've always said is that I would judge this approach by the amount of talent on the roster at the end of this following off-season, when Luka signs his extension, and that's what I'll do. But, I must admit it's starting to feel like we're headed for a place that will disappoint me. 

However, what I think is extremely important to remember is that the BIGGEST misstep (again, in hindsight) was the trade for and extending of Porzingis, moves that I think literally all of us thought were no-brainers at the time. If those choices had paid off like we all assumed they would, this would be a very different conversation right now, I think. When there is a giant turd sitting in the punchbowl, I don't understand the inclination to argue about whether or not the punch was made with enough sugar.

[chaparral]

I'm sure we all agree that the Mavs won the Luka vs Young trade.  But that was only one trade three years ago, back in June of 2018.  Since then the Hawks MBT have been pretty active and even changed coaches this season.  How many here would not take Bogdanovic, Capela and Gallinary over Hardaway, Porzingis and Melli - right now?

Both teams this year finished 5th in there conferences.  The Hawks have advanced to the 2nd round and play the # 1 seed 76ers.  With a win tomorrow the Mavs can advance and play the # 1 seed Jazz.  With all that said it still sounds kind of even.  So if you think the Hawks are doing a good job, then?

For me the jury is still out on our own MBT.  In the offseason after Dirks 2nd all-star year the MBT made major changes.  Lets see if history repeats itself again for our Mavs.

Let's Go Mavs.

[SleepingHero]

It's easy to say the Mavs haven't done anything since the 2018 draft, but here are our respective win totals.

18-19: 33-49 Out of the playoffs. (Traded for WCS, KP, THJ, Lee, and Burke halfway through) 
19-20: 43-32 7th in the West (added Curry, Wright, Boban)
20-21: 42-30 5th in the West. (Lost Curry, Wright, Jackson Added Jrich)

So the Mavs in 3 years have improved from no playoffs to a 5th seed in the West. And we all know how turbulent the last 2 seasons have been because of a global pandemic.

Needless to say the Mavs are succeeding. Hindsight is 20/20 and it's easy to point out the flaws in every move saying they could've done more, but on paper the Mavs are making the leap.

Sure KP hasn't worked out perfectly and JRich has fallen into the doghouse like Wright. BUT here we are, taking a very good LAC team to 7 games and have looked competitive with them in 5 out of 6 with them. That's obvious improvement compared to last year. 

I give Donnie a B. The Mavs have improved in the last 3 years. He locked up DFS and Maxi to super value contracts. He traded for KP and Timmy for basically 3 players that didn't matter and 2 FRP picks. A trade at the time that blew all of our minds (still does for me, THJ is a monster!). I loved the Boban signing 2 years 7 mil. I loved the WCS trade for a 50th pick.  

Donnie has also done some not so good moves. The Delon Wright trade with MEM was puzzling. The Delon Wright trade again to get him off the team was even more puzzling given he was traded for value not just 3 months later. Not getting true value for Harry B is another head scratcher. The JRich trade for Curry is one we all want back. And of course 2 summers of mediocre FA signings. 

Some good. Some bad. But the teams improved. So he deserves a B.

[Chicagojk]

I'm sure we all agree that the Mavs won the Luka vs Young trade.  But that was only one trade three years ago, back in June of 2018.  Since then the Hawks MBT have been pretty active and even changed coaches this season.  How many here would not take Bogdanovic, Capela and Gallinary over Hardaway, Porzingis and Melli - right now?

Both teams this year finished 5th in there conferences.  The Hawks have advanced to the 2nd round and play the # 1 seed 76ers.  With a win tomorrow the Mavs can advance and play the # 1 seed Jazz.  With all that said it still sounds kind of even.  So if you think the Hawks are doing a good job, then?

For me the jury is still out on our own MBT.  In the offseason after Dirks 2nd all-star year the MBT made major changes.  Lets see if history repeats itself again for our Mavs.

Let's Go Mavs.

I think Atlanta is a good comparison for the Mavs.   Now the Hawks beat a diminished try hard team in round one and they have also been able to use cap room and trades to improve their roster.  As you mention Bogdanovic, Capela and Galinari have all been recent acquisitions.  Huerter was drafted in the mid first and he has been solid and Hunter looks real interesting.    They have done a nice job building around Young and trying to hide his weaknesses.    I expect them to lose against the Sixers but they are a team who will be interesting the next few years.

The team who I think is the best organization to compare to the Mavs is the Grizzles.  The Grizz aren't going to attract any free agents, but look at their most recent moves the last few years.   They have found nice values and have also found players who fit their team and grew their game once in their system.    You can make a good argument that all of the following players have improved once in their system:  Dillon Brooks, Grayson Allen, Jonas Valanciunas, Kyle Anderson, De'Anthony Melton,  and Tyus Jones.  They also entered the draft without a first round pick but wound up with two of the top 10 rookies in the class.    They also have two developmental prospects in Tillie and Jontay Portay.  Both may be long shots but their recent history has been stellar of finding the right guys who improve.  If the Mavs don't have a very good offseason, I could see the Grizzles as a team who leaps over the Mavs.   Maybe.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_...-ascension

[Chicagojk]

On the other hand, drafting Luka, just like drafting Giannis matters.    I was listening to a podcast prior to the playoffs and a Bucks fan was talking about their failed draft picks over recent years.  I always viewed the Bucks as a real good front office, but they have passed on some really good players.  At the end though, he said when you have Giannis it allows you to overlook some of the poorer moves.

Getting a team to good to championship level is really tough.  I really thought the Mavs would do well adding Championship rotation pieces to the roster though.  So far, they have struggled.   And there are a lot of well run teams in the league now.   I am hoping now that they can't dream about adding another big fish in free agency that they get back to what they have been good at 7-8 years ago of finding undervalued pieces.   Those pieces really need to be 3rd and 4th best pieces on our team.   IE Shawn Marion and Tyson Chandler type of players.

[dirkfansince1998]

Getting a team to good to championship level is really tough. 

I think that´s the important point. Getting to the playoffs isn´t easy but turning a first/secound round exit team into a true contender is a lot harder. Small margin of error. One mistake (bad pick/signing/trade) can be the difference between a dynasty and the treatmill. Mavs already made a lot of mistakes in the early Luka window. After two wasted offseasons they have one more shot before Luka´s extension. Need a perfect summer if they don´t want to waste the next 2-3 years.

[Scott41theMavs]

I think Donnie and co. deserve all the credit in the world for being the team smart enough to take advantage of the stupidity of three other franchises and grab Luka. But the question is the last two years. The point above about how KP being successful would have changed the whole conversation is relevant. So is SH's point about team improvement. But I don't think there's any valid argument that a single personnel move to improve the team has occurred since the NY trade, and that's with enormous opportunities in drafting, trades, and caproom. On the question of the past two years, a solid, round, and rotund F, and any other answer is delusional.

[KillerLeft]

On the question of the past two years, a solid, round, and rotund F, and any other answer is delusional.

If the team reaches the point (Luka extended, KP money still on books) where the Mavs have no choice but to start thinking over the cap only, and there isn't a situation here better than the one that would exist had they made some of the moves people hoped for over the past two years, yes. Absolutely, we'll all look back at the past two years with disappointment. 

But, they didn't make some of those moves (many of us think) because they were thinking down the road and trying to keep doors to even bigger, better paths open. This was a stupid way to think back in 2011, because that was the END of something. The play there was to make it last as long as possible, with spit, glue and duct tape. But I can understand the allure of doing it at the BEGINNING of this new thing, trying to set the Luka era up as strongly as possible, and avoiding the temptation of cutting corners to start the journey more quickly in an effort to do it better and make the peak of the journey stronger. 

Again, the deciding point for me will be the end of this, coming off-season. With each passing day it's more difficult to imagine what the path to something great might be, but the chapter won't be CLOSED until they have no other recourse but to go over the cap and make silly trades like they did to waste Dirk's entire career, almost. When it's done, I'll decide for myself THEN if it was successful, and not one second before. 

I DON'T think Luka would've won a championship last year or this year regardless of any "sliding doors" alternate choices, so I'm not really concerned with any missed opportunities to this point, and I DON'T see a missed opportunity (that was realistic) that would've set them on a path to a future that I'm sad they missed. 

We know the team has experience building a team the way they did during Dirk's era, and we know how long it takes. If we reach that point, success has to be redefined. Expectations have to be lowered. 

I'm going to continue to say this: for all of the complaining around here about moves not made, players they didn't pursue, etc, the thing that's ruining everything (and I mean everything - the current team's play, Luka's future in Dallas, EVERYTHING) is the ONE and ONLY longterm commitment the team DID actually make. The Porzingis commitment was a misstep. It didn't work (or hasn't yet), and it is on the verge of slamming some doors shut that we'll all wish were still open later. In the case of that move, doing nothing would've been better. I'd rather still have the options.

[Jason Terry]

If the team reaches the point (Luka extended, KP money still on books) where the Mavs have no choice but to start thinking over the cap only, and there isn't a situation here better than the one that would exist had they made some of the moves people hoped for over the past two years, yes. Absolutely, we'll all look back at the past two years with disappointment. 

But, they didn't make some of those moves (many of us think) because they were thinking down the road and trying to keep doors to even bigger, better paths open. This was a stupid way to think back in 2011, because that was the END of something. The play there was to make it last as long as possible, with spit, glue and duct tape. But I can understand the allure of doing it at the BEGINNING of this new thing, trying to set the Luka era up as strongly as possible, and avoiding the temptation of cutting corners to start the journey more quickly in an effort to do it better and make the peak of the journey stronger. 

Again, the deciding point for me will be the end of this, coming off-season. With each passing day it's more difficult to imagine what the path to something great might be, but the chapter won't be CLOSED until they have no other recourse but to go over the cap and make silly trades like they did to waste Dirk's entire career, almost. When it's done, I'll decide for myself THEN if it was successful, and not one second before. 

I DON'T think Luka would've won a championship last year or this year regardless of any "sliding doors" alternate choices, so I'm not really concerned with any missed opportunities to this point, and I DON'T see a missed opportunity (that was realistic) that would've set them on a path to a future that I'm sad they missed. 

We know the team has experience building a team the way they did during Dirk's era, and we know how long it takes. If we reach that point, success has to be redefined. Expectations have to be lowered. 

I'm going to continue to say this: for all of the complaining around here about moves not made, players they didn't pursue, etc, the thing that's ruining everything (and I mean everything - the current team's play, Luka's future in Dallas, EVERYTHING) is the ONE and ONLY longterm commitment the team DID actually make. The Porzingis commitment was a misstep. It didn't work (or hasn't yet), and it is on the verge of slamming some doors shut that we'll all wish were still open later. In the case of that move, doing nothing would've been better. I'd rather still have the options.

Well said. The MBT deserves this summer to get it right. It’s not easy to get guys who deserve playoff minutes. Kind of why Dragic makes so much sense

[ItsGoTime]

Again, the deciding point for me will be the end of this, coming off-season. With each passing day it's more difficult to imagine what the path to something great might be, but the chapter won't be CLOSED until they have no other recourse but to go over the cap and make silly trades like they did to waste Dirk's entire career, almost. When it's done, I'll decide for myself THEN if it was successful, and not one second before. 

So in order to evaluate the last 2 years, you need this year?