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9 hours ago
(This post was last modified: 9 hours ago by MFFLER est 01.)
I think people get too caught up on "positions". We have guys who can play multiple positions
I can see Zacchaire working at the 2.
Naji at the 1
Bieberovic at the 2
Flagg at the 1
Kyrie,Sergio,and Sasser at 1 or 2
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(9 hours ago)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Sorry to be repetitious, but so are these comments - no buyout prior to the TDL. Find a team that will play ball.
So if we get to the start of the season with no buyers, who do you cut? Cisse?
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9 hours ago
(This post was last modified: 9 hours ago by RoyTarpleysGhost.)
(10 hours ago)F Gump Wrote: True if - but only if - they don't ascribe to the 1-3-1 model of roster building and lineups, ie
1 center
3 wings of varying sizes, shapes, and skills, mix-and-match as desired
1 pg/ballhandler
But if that's their model, then any "trade" to adjust the lineup is going to be internal, as they have 3 C, 3 PG, and 10 players currently for those 3 wing spots. Just use the right player(s) in the right lineup in the right way.
We did this same song and dance last summer. I dont care what their philosophy is. It's not going to work.
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9 hours ago
(This post was last modified: 9 hours ago by windjc.)
(10 hours ago)mvossman Wrote: I would argue that looks like a Luka template. And even Luka in his best years had a strong creator next to him (Brunson/Kyrie).
I think they need at least two creators (if not three) on the court at all times. They have Kyrie/Flagg/Naji/Larry/Sasser, and most of those guys are probably better categorized as secondary creators. That seems really light.
It boggles the mind that people who think themselves great at basketball analysis would call Kyrie and/or Flagg secondary creators.
Lololololololol
So are Kawhi Leonard, Durant and Brown also secondary creators?
Kyrie is arguably the best ball handler in NBA in last 25 years. Flagg was an 18 year old playing point forward with an offense that had zero space and went on to have the best or second best real rookie stats of all time.
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(9 hours ago)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: We did this same song and dance last summer. I dont care what their philosophy is. It's not going to work.
Yeah primarily because Kidd is still the coach. If we had a different coach I’d argue with your point as it would be silly.
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8 hours ago
(This post was last modified: 8 hours ago by Smitty.)
(Yesterday, 07:15 AM)Smitty Wrote: Far from just my idea. I've seen more than one talk about a trade framework similar to this, but diving into the Lakers situation, this is where they stand:
16 Guaranteed Contracts
Total Salary: $200,897,322
First Apron Space: $8,117,678
Tradable FRP: (0).... (1) tradable '32 FRP Swap
Tradable SRP: (3)
Like the Mavs, they need to get down to 15 eventually. They are also hard capped at Apron 1. Their depth chart looks something like this:
Luka | Sexton | Bronny
AR | Thybulle | Carr | Hardy
Grimes | Z. Williams | Knecht | Thiero
Sandro | LaRavia | Vanderbilt
Kessler | Looney
In a 2 for 1 trade of Hardy+Knecht for Klay, it can look something like this:
DAL: Jaden Hardy (-$11.4M)
LAL: Klay Thompson (+$7.2M)
BKN: Dalton Knecht (+$4.2M)
This would leave the Lakers $858,441 below A1.
The Mavs would be $13,757,918 below the Tax Line.
The Nets would get a flyer on a 25-year-old Wing (expiring), for free.
Add SRP's wherever you'd like...
The Mavs could then waive Hardy (expiring), while also freeing up the use of the full MLE ($12,044,000). Can be opportunistic the rest of the summer and through the deadline. All while staying under the tax line.
With the recent PJW/Lakers rumor. I tried to come up with the "best" package the Lakers could offer:
DAL: Hardy, Knecht, Bronny (all expiring) + '32 FRP Swap + (3) SRP's [$-7.3M]
LAL: PJ Washington [+$7.3M]
It takes the Lakers down to the minimum 14 roster spots and just below the A1 hardcap.
Luka | Sexton
AR | Thybulle | Carr
Grimes | Z. Williams | Thiero
PJW | LaRavia | Vanderbilt
Kessler | Sandro | Looney
The Mavs can waive all 3 expirings to get down to 15 roster spots (keeping Klay). It saves the Mavs $7.3M this year. Getting ~$9.6M below the Tax Line. And gets off the long-term money of PJ (19.8M, 21.4M, 23M, 24.5M). For those that think PJ is a bad fit, you get a pick swap and restock some of the second round picks you've sent out.
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(8 hours ago)Smitty Wrote: With the recent PJW/Lakers rumor. I tried to come up with the "best" package the Lakers could offer:
DAL: Hardy, Knecht, Bronny (all expiring) + '32 FRP Swap + (3) SRP's [$-7.3M]
LAL: PJ Washington [+$7.3M]
It takes the Lakers down to the minimum 14 roster spots and just below the A1 hardcap.
Luka | Sexton
AR | Thybulle | Carr
Grimes | Z. Williams | Thiero
PJW | LaRavia | Vanderbilt
Kessler | Sandro | Looney
The Mavs can waive all 3 expirings to get down to 15 roster spots (keeping Klay). It saves the Mavs $7.3M this year. Getting ~$14M below the Tax Line. And gets off the long-term money of PJ (19.8M, 21.4M, 23M, 24.5M). For those that think PJ is a bad fit, you get a pick swap and restock some of the second round picks you've sent out.
Good thinking, though most would see that as a light return. If Luka is no longer a Laker and Cooper is still a Mav, that swap could be valuable.
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(8 hours ago)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Good thinking, though most would see that as a light return. If Luka is no longer a Laker and Cooper is still a Mav, that swap could be valuable.
Could also make it a 3-team trade with Klay/MIA
DAL: Jovic, Hardy, Knecht + '29 FRP, '32 FRP Swap + (2) SRP's [-$10.9M]
LAL: PJ Washington [+$7.3M]
MIA: Klay, Bronny + SRP [+$3.6M]
Waive Hardy and Knecht expirings and you're down to 15:
Kyrie | Sergio | Sasser
Christie | Risacher | Tarik
Flagg | Naji | Martin
Morez | Jovic | Aldama
Lively | Gafford | Cisse
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(8 hours ago)Smitty Wrote: With the recent PJW/Lakers rumor. I tried to come up with the "best" package the Lakers could offer:
DAL: Hardy, Knecht, Bronny (all expiring) + '32 FRP Swap + (3) SRP's [$-7.3M]
LAL: PJ Washington [+$7.3M]
It takes the Lakers down to the minimum 14 roster spots and just below the A1 hardcap.
Luka | Sexton
AR | Thybulle | Carr
Grimes | Z. Williams | Thiero
PJW | LaRavia | Vanderbilt
Kessler | Sandro | Looney
The Mavs can waive all 3 expirings to get down to 15 roster spots (keeping Klay). It saves the Mavs $7.3M this year. Getting ~$14M below the Tax Line. And gets off the long-term money of PJ (19.8M, 21.4M, 23M, 24.5M). For those that think PJ is a bad fit, you get a pick swap and restock some of the second round picks you've sent out.
Well done. Are you sure you get to $14mm under the tax without also buying out Klay?
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(8 hours ago)Smitty Wrote: Could also make it a 3-team trade with Klay/MIA
DAL: Jovic, Hardy, Knecht + '29 FRP, '32 FRP Swap + (2) SRP's [-$10.9M]
LAL: PJ Washington [+$7.3M]
MIA: Klay, Bronny + SRP [+$3.6M]
Waive Hardy and Knecht expirings and you're down to 15:
Kyrie | Sergio | Sasser
Christie | Risacher | Tarik
Flagg | Naji | Martin
Morez | Jovic | Aldama
Lively | Gafford | Cisse
And that was my next question…with PJ out of the way, does Jovic look more palatable?
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8 hours ago
(This post was last modified: 8 hours ago by Smitty.)
(8 hours ago)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Well done. Are you sure you get to $14mm under the tax without also buying out Klay?
Good catch. I was combining a few of my ideas and lost track of the numbers. Not $14M in that one. ~$9.6M below in the Lakers only trade.
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(8 hours ago)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: And that was my next question…with PJ out of the way, does Jovic look more palatable?
You're essentially trading PJ+Klay for Jovic, a FRP, a FRP Swap, and some SRP's. It feels homerish, and I'm probably the biggest PJ fan here. I also probably like Jovic's upside a bit more than most.
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Don’t think this could happen until December but would you trade PJ for Ayo? Minny gets a power forward for the second part of the year. Dallas adds a combo guard
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Hardy can be traded back to DAL, no? It's a "new season". I'll lean on the CBA savvy folks, but the way I've always understood it... I think its legal??
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I'm still inclined to believe that these various solutions to a 16-man roster are too complex by a magnitude of 10 or more.
Instead I think they are looking to simply trade a player away in a 1-for-0, or at most a 2-for-1.
The backup plan, if they can't find that deal, then a buyout of 1 of Cisse (easy waiver, almost certainly at no cost), Martin (some giveback possible on buyout of both years, sunk cost rationale if he's as low on the usefulness scale as it seems, and NOT stretched), or Klay (most discussed, perhaps most flexible on the buyout).
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(7 hours ago)Smitty Wrote: Hardy can be traded back to DAL, no? It's a "new season". I'll lean on the CBA savvy folks, but the way I've always understood it... I think its legal??
That may be right -- if someone said it that would know, I'm good with it. (FWIW I had second thoughts and deleted my comment before you replied.) The trade-him-and-get-him-back rules have been amended enough times over the years that I've lost track of the exact details these days.
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(7 hours ago)F Gump Wrote: I'm still inclined to believe that these various solutions to a 16-man roster are too complex by a magnitude of 10 or more.
Instead I think they are looking to simply trade a player away in a 1-for-0, or at most a 2-for-1.
The backup plan, if they can't find that deal, then a buyout of 1 of Cisse (easy waiver, almost certainly at no cost), Martin (some giveback possible on buyout of both years, sunk cost rationale if he's as low on the usefulness scale as it seems, and NOT stretched), or Klay (most discussed, perhaps most flexible on the buyout).
I don’t disagree with any of this! Just the dog days of summer and coming up with things to discuss is all.
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(Yesterday, 08:24 AM)F Gump Wrote: If I understand the rules correctly, Hardy may not be able to be traded to Dallas, since DAL traded him away on the same contract.
You are correct. 1 full year needs to have passed since the trade for Hardy to be trade eligible for the Mavs.
So 2/4/2027 this deal is legal. But not right now.
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(7 hours ago)Smitty Wrote: Hardy can be traded back to DAL, no? It's a "new season". I'll lean on the CBA savvy folks, but the way I've always understood it... I think its legal??
It always used to be 1 full year since the last trade.
Unless they've amended it.
Now I'm going to go through the CBA to check.
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(5 hours ago)SleepingHero Wrote: It always used to be 1 full year since the last trade.
Unless they've amended it.
Now I'm going to go through the CBA to check.
I have read the CBA. the "1 full year since last trade" provision only applies if the player was waived by the new team.
As in:
Player X is traded from Team A to Team B. Team B now waives Player X, therefore that player cannot sign with Team A for 1 year since the trade.
Doesn't matter if Player X was traded 20 times since the first trade, they cannot be acquired by the original team. But the CBA specifically only mentions "sign the player back" not "acquire the player via sign or trade".
Therefore Hardy technically could be gotten back.
Section 8, subsection 7c, paragraphs H and I.
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