Trade & Free Agency 2026/2027

[mvossman]

Even if those Lakers are on expiring contracts, the trade feels empty in my opinion. And it's not like #25 pick is some kind of prize. It's a rotation player at best. Gafford is capable of strong minutes every night. You don't need to dump for that.

At least the Detroit trade has players that can play serviceable minutes - and Stewart has some serious bite to him. Plus the pick is #21.

The #25 pick is not a rotation player at best.  We have seen Masai get way more than that multiple times in that range.  The idea that a given pick does not have a high likelihood to get a stud so its useless is Cuban thinking.  That is why this organization ignored the draft for so many years.  The draft is an odds game.  The more shots you take the better your odds are, and Masai has shown that the odds are better for him than most.

Of course the Kyrie trade has more coming back.  He is the more valuable player.  Personally I don't think Gafford is worth his contract unless he is in a specific situation, and I don't think he is in that situation on this roster.

[mvossman]

Vanderbilt has a player option for next year according to Spotrac.  So 2 years left on his deal.  I had to look that up before deciding whether I'd make that trade.  Probably not for that reason.

That is a hit.  I probably still do it, but that makes it a harder call.

[Winter]

The #25 pick is not a rotation player at best.  We have seen Masai get way more than that multiple times in that range.  The idea that a given pick does not have a high likelihood to get a stud so its useless is Cuban thinking.  That is why this organization ignored the draft for so many years.  The draft is an odds game.  The more shots you take the better your odds are, and Masai has shown that the odds are better for him than most.

Of course the Kyrie trade has more coming back.  He is the more valuable player.  Personally I don't think Gafford is worth his contract unless he is in a specific situation, and I don't think he is in that situation on this roster.

So... lesser players and the #25 pick vs better players and the #21 pick. You choose the first one?

[mvossman]

So... lesser players and the #25 pick vs better players and the #21 pick. You choose the first one?

I guess I'm confused on what you are talking about?  The Detroit trade that was on the same post as the Gafford trade was for Kyrie.

[F Gump]

 If push came to shove, I'd rather swap 21 for 30 and add a pick in 28 or 29.

I also think it's a wiser process (as well as better value) to do that, where you acquire a pick INSTEAD OF one of 9 or 30, rather than in addition to. While there can be exceptions, for the most part it's too many development minutes in the lineup to try to add 3 keepers in one season. (In fact, 2 is even a challenge.) 

It would make sense if the Mavs had a pick in 2027 and wanted to play a lineup of raw players to increase their tanking potential. But since they don't have a pick, they won't be doing that. They will be wanting to win, and will be trying to integrate new players in a way to do so. I don't think they will be handing out minutes like candy to rookies.

[Winter]

Those players are both expiring.  They are trade filler.  It about getting that draft pick and clearing 18 mil off the books in a year.

This is the ESPN Detroit trade

Pistons get: Kyrie
Mavs get: Lavert, Stewart, Holland, and 2026 first round pick (#21)

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/4886...nt-pistons

[mvossman]

This is the ESPN Detroit trade

Pistons get: Kyrie
Mavs get: Lavert, Stewart, Holland, and 2026 first round pick (#21)

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/4886...nt-pistons

You are replying to comment regarding the Gafford trade. Not sure why you are posting details regarding Kyrie trade?

[Winter]

You are replying to comment regarding the Gafford trade.  Not sure why you are posting details regarding Kyrie trade?

Ah, I was reading your comments in regards to a similar post made above yours and thought you were responding there. That was my fault. Yesterday's posts suddenly became todays' comments,

[RasheedsBigWhiteSpot]

That Detroit trade is baaaaad.

This idea that 34 is old in the NBA is nonsense. This isn't the 80's. Star players, especially those who keep themselves in good shape, like Kyrie, play til their late 30s.

And, as I've said before, major injuries just aren't that big of a deal anymore. Now if he was constantly injury prone like AD, that would be one thing. But Kyrie is a gamer.

Fat, older James Harden has repeatedly fetched good players and picks. I think we'll all be surprised by what he nets, especially with Masai negotiating.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/4886...gs-lessons

Team building tips for the NBA's final four.

[DanSchwartzgan]

That Detroit trade is baaaaad.

This idea that 34 is old in the NBA is nonsense. This isn't the 80's. Star players, especially those who keep themselves in good shape, like Kyrie, play til their late 30s.

And, as I've said before, major injuries just aren't that big of a deal anymore. Now if he was constantly injury prone like AD, that would be one thing. But Kyrie is a gamer.

Fat, older James Harden has repeatedly fetched good players and picks. I think we'll all be surprised by what he nets, especially with Masai negotiating.

We do all realize that Kyrie can leave whatever team he goes to as a Free Agent next summer.  He only cost us one future first when he was 3 years younger and hadn't just missed a season.  I'm curious what the right amount of compensation is?  If a quality backup center, a recent top five pick and another pick in the early 20's isn't enough, what needs to be added?

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

That's a legit trade offer. I think similar offers should be on the table at the trade deadline. I'm not that motivated to move him right now. I guess there's a small chance Kyrie suffers another catastrophic injury this season and even that offer wont be available later.

[Mavs2021]

That Detroit trade is baaaaad.

This idea that 34 is old in the NBA is nonsense. This isn't the 80's. Star players, especially those who keep themselves in good shape, like Kyrie, play til their late 30s.

And, as I've said before, major injuries just aren't that big of a deal anymore. Now if he was constantly injury prone like AD, that would be one thing. But Kyrie is a gamer.

Fat, older James Harden has repeatedly fetched good players and picks. I think we'll all be surprised by what he nets, especially with Masai negotiating.

Teams were at least the 2nd best player was 34/35 years or older.

ChatGPT says:

2022 Warriors
2020 Lakers (with a three months rest period and a bubble, so obviously highly questionable)
2014 Spurs  (questionable whether Duncan was still top 2 and how fast we getting Kawhi, Parker and Ginobili through the door)
1998 Bulls
1987 Lakers

So exclude the bubble and it happens roughly once a decade.

It´s not just about putting up stats, it´s about not giving them away on the other end. 

I´d say you do very well, if you get two 1sts for him, but that´s more out of the final piece to the puzzle desperation by some teams than the actual trade value. In most cases the team trading for the old guy like Durant, CP3, Beal, DeRozan, PG13 or Harden is losing the trade, because they were simply overvalued. Not our problem in that case obviously.

[mvossman]

We do all realize that Kyrie can leave whatever team he goes to as a Free Agent next summer.  He only cost us one future first when he was 3 years younger and hadn't just missed a season.  I'm curious what the right amount of compensation is?  If a quality backup center, a recent top five pick and another pick in the early 20's isn't enough, what needs to be added?

I agree with your point, although others will probably point out the DFS was worth a first and that Kyrie value was really low due to red flag character issues which he has mostly alleviated.  I would argue that two firsts is probably his current value (given his age and long term availability issues) and that package is worth roughly two firsts.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I agree with your point, although others will probably point out the DFS was worth a first and that Kyrie value was really low due to red flag character issues which he has mostly alleviated.  I would argue that two firsts is probably his current value (given his age and long term availability issues) and that package is worth roughly two firsts.

That seems fair.  Holland for DFS depends where you are in the team building process.  #21 vs an unknowable future first from Dallas.  Stewart has some value, but not anything crazy.  He at least gives you something if Holland completely craps out.  So, somewhat similar value in and out if this were anything more than an ESPN writers fantasy trade.

[KillerLeft]

That's a legit trade offer.  I think similar offers should be on the table at the trade deadline.  I'm not that motivated to move him right now.  I guess there's a small chance Kyrie suffers another catastrophic injury this season and even that offer wont be available later.

A lot to unpack with this whole conversation (some of this isn't direct reply to your post). 

1) Yeah, it's a legit trade package, and I'm baffled by those who balk at it. To my understanding, it's not even an offer so much as the idea of some ESPN content creator, and frankly I doubt Detroit would even make that offer, but if they did I'd think it would merit consideration from the Mavs. 

2) It's absolutely valid to wonder whether the Mavs might be best served right now just holding onto Kyrie. He's worth a lot to them on the court and in the locker room. I can totally understand how some might value his presence and participation in the short term. But, IF they want to trade him, I'd bet a lot that this hypothetical DET package is towards the top end of what would be offered, and in fact might be a little better than the offers they actually get, either now OR at the TDL. 

3) 34 IS old. It's not AS old as it used to be, that's true, but it's old enough to narrow league interest down to teams living 100% in the now, as in the next year or two. There's also Dan's fine point about his contract to consider. By the TDL, Kyrie will be in a very similar situation to the one AD is in right now - his focus narrowed to the point where all he really cares about is finding one, last payday. Everything will need to be filtered through that lens pretty soon, and if we didn't think Dallas was in position to make that kind of commitment to Davis, I have to wonder why we assume they're willing to do so with Kyrie. I get that the injury histories are different, but the readiness of the Mavs is not. It's the same team in the same "trying to find themselves" situation, and I question the intelligence of committing to an overpriced player in his mid-30's, regardless of how popular he is with fans. Flagg is a baby and they're not winning more than a first round playoff series during the rest of Kyrie's career, I don't think. 

4) Yes, to your point, there's a chance Kyrie suffers another injury if they keep him (I think more than the "small" chance you mention, personally, but I don't mean to suggest it's super likely, necessarily), but there's ALSO a very real chance that he flatly isn't Kyrie anymore. He wasn't Kyrie for a few years before coming here, and now he's 34, coming off of an entirely lost season. I think there's risk in holding onto him, just like there's risk in trading him. It's all one, big judgement call that they kind of must get right.

[KillerLeft]

That seems fair.  Holland for DFS depends where you are in the team building process.  #21 vs an unknowable future first from Dallas.  Stewart has some value, but not anything crazy.  He at least gives you something if Holland completely craps out.  So, somewhat similar value in and out if this were anything more than an ESPN writers fantasy trade.

I would humbly submit that Stewart is the asset people here don't seem to fully value. He's one of the best modern defensive bigs in the game, and a big part of DET's recent revitalization. I honestly don't believe Detroit would be interested in Kyrie at this suggested price. 

Hoosierdaddy is our very own DET fan - I wonder what he thinks about this idea?

[KillerLeft]

It kind of feels like the team we should be discussing as a potential Kyrie destination is Minnesota. Regardless of where each of us are on the "believe in Kyrie" spectrum, he's Kyrie, and he's going to have some say in where he plays next. I assume the bulk of the three-way negotiation between the Mavs, Kyrie and team X would be about Kyrie's next contract (that's what we never factor in enough as fans, imo), but SOME of it will be about team X feeling ready to win, viewing Kyrie as the piece that gets them there and their star(s) having interest in playing with him.

DET, imho, is NOT ready to win, nor are the Lakers. Just my opinion. I could see Minnesota convincing themselves they are, even to the point of giving Kyrie another couple of seasons of max pay to set everything up. And, there's smoke out there about Edwards wanting them to bring Kyrie in. Conley is obviously past the point of helping, so it makes a little sense.

And that brings me back to "why now?" I can't tell you how many times I read here "offers will be better at the deadline." Then, at the deadline, I read "offers will be better over the summer." If I put myself in the shoes of a team like Minnesota (or any team trying to add Kyrie to what they believe is a championship roster, honestly), I want to get it done NOW, personally. That way, my team has time to plan for the roster we'll have, learn to play together, etc.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I would humbly submit that Stewart is the asset people here don't seem to fully value. He's one of the best modern defensive bigs in the game, and a big part of DET's recent revitalization. I honestly don't believe Detroit would be interested in Kyrie at this suggested price. 

Hoosierdaddy is our very own DET fan - I wonder what he thinks about this idea?

It was revealed after the season, Stewart had a calf issue that was problematic. As well as Cade was playing with cracked ribs in addition to his collapsed lung. That's why Stewart wasn't as effective as he was during the regular season, with his minutes being cut. It's why they went with Paul Reed who filled in pretty well. I think the trade helps both teams, but Langdon seems to operate around the fringes, trying to keep hold his assets. They need to make a significant move to provide Cade some help. Kyrie could help for sure, but I don’t know what he'll do.

[KillerLeft]

It was revealed after the season, Stewart had a calf issue that was problematic. As well as Cade was playing with cracked ribs in addition to his collapsed lung. That's why Stewart wasn't as effective as he was during the regular season, with his minutes being cut. It's why they went with Paul Reed who filled in pretty well. I think the trade helps both teams, but Langdon seems to operate around the fringes, trying to keep hold his assets. They need to make a significant move to provide Cade some help. Kyrie could help for sure, but I don’t know what he'll do.

All good, helpful info, thanks. 

What I'm asking is: If you turn off the Mavs fan part of yourself and only access the DET fan side, is the proposed trade something you'd be excited about?