MAVS NEWS:

[DanSchwartzgan]

Cooper Flagg is 1 of 10 players w/ 20+ PPG, 6+ RPG, 4+ APG.

Giannis Antetokounmpo
Nikola Jokic
Jaylen Brown
Luka Dončić
Jalen Johnson
Deni Avdija
Julius Randle
Alperen Sengün
Paolo Banchero
Cooper Flagg

Flagg turned 19 in Dec.

He has the fewest turnovers per game of them all.

He's also pretty high on that list defensively

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I don't know what has happened to PJ. I know he's had nagging injuries, but he hasn't played well this year. Could he be expendable down the line?

[michaeltex]

Cooper Flagg is 1 of 10 players w/ 20+ PPG, 6+ RPG, 4+ APG.

Giannis Antetokounmpo - 3rd in usage
Nikola Jokic - 23rd in usage
Jaylen Brown - 2nd in usage
Luka Dončić - 1st in usage
Jalen Johnson - 42nd in usage
Deni Avdija - 25th in usage
Julius Randle - 48th in usage
Alperen Sengün - 40th in usage
Paolo Banchero - 37th in usage
Cooper Flagg - 65th in usage

Flagg turned 19 in Dec.

He has the fewest turnovers per game of them all.

Good stuff! Added usage rates to see how much everyone was actually involved. Not surprised the top 3 were there, but was surprised that 4 though 22 were not.

Note that these numbers are for the season to date. Looking at the last 15 games CF is up to 25th.

[Smitty]

Good stuff! Added usage rates to see how much everyone was actually involved. Not surprised the top 3 were there, but was surprised that 4 though 22 were not.

Note that these numbers are for the season to date. Looking at the last 15 games CF is up to 25th.

Does his usage in comparison make it more impressive or less?

[michaeltex]

I like Marshall, but his best role is the direct backup to Flagg as their offensive games (attack the basket off the dribble and shoot a three if you absolutely have to) are similar.  His full allowable extension is too high for that role.  He's probably made himself some money this season, but there isn't a team out there that is going to pay over the MLE for him.

Unfortunately, PJ next to Flagg is even worse than Marshall next to Flagg.  I don't think we have our answer at this position yet.  Both PJ and Marshall are nice players to have and I'd probably like to have one of them off of my bench longer term.  But neither is critical to what needs to be built around Flagg.

I don't profess to know the right number to pay Marshall. Higher than where he's at, but maybe below the MLE?

I do think he should get re-signed/extended. DAL has slightly improved its draft assets and opened up some room in the salary cap, but we (i.e., whoever fills the GM shoes) need to be able opportunistically make trades to continue to improve. Having useable players like Gaff, PJ and Naji on reasonable salaries gives us known value assets for salary matching when the opportunity presents itself.

[mvossman]

I don't know what has happened to PJ. I know he's had nagging injuries, but he hasn't played well this year. Could he be expendable down the line?

There are some rumors that he is having baby moma issues, but if you look at his career it seems his level of play has a lot to do with how competitive his team is. My guess is when the Mavs get better he will get better.

[Smitty]

There are some rumors that he is having baby moma issues, but if you look at his career it seems his level of play has a lot to do with how competitive his team is.  My guess is when the Mavs get better he will get better.

I agree with this. I would describe him as a ceiling raiser, not a floor raiser...

[mvossman]

I like Marshall, but his best role is the direct backup to Flagg as their offensive games (attack the basket off the dribble and shoot a three if you absolutely have to) are similar.  His full allowable extension is too high for that role.  He's probably made himself some money this season, but there isn't a team out there that is going to pay over the MLE for him.

Unfortunately, PJ next to Flagg is even worse than Marshall next to Flagg.  I don't think we have our answer at this position yet.  Both PJ and Marshall are nice players to have and I'd probably like to have one of them off of my bench longer term.  But neither is critical to what needs to be built around Flagg.

Yeah, if you look at who Flagg has done best on the court with, the top is the centers (Lively and Powell) then PG (Williams and Nembhard) then shooters (Klay and Max) and then at the bottom its the limited shooting forwards (Naji and PJ).  Just looking at that would suggest they need to surround him with a center, a PG and shooters.  You can make an argument for one of Naji and PJ for depth, but probably need to send one out for a better fit.

[KillerLeft]

Another issue regarding the fit of the players in question:

Gafford and especially PJW are both paid too much to be bench players. Gafford's contract is probably what scared people away at the deadline, but it's not horrible if the plan is to go back to a platoon with Lively (which I assume it is), at least until Lively hopefully proves worthy of a bigger than 50% role and you have to pay him. Still, to give the other end of that argument some fairness, there's a chance Lively never does that, isn't here past his rookie deal and Gafford will play a LOT next year. I'm not sure he's the ideal center with Flagg in any scenario, but the Tyus Jones trade is the first concrete indication I've seen that Kidd wants to play pick and roll basketball, so with Davis gone now I'm open minded to see how it goes with Gafford.

PJW does NOT fit on court with Flagg, and he makes WAY too much money, not for what he offers as a player, but for the role he'd be right for here. I worry that with him, the contract extension we were so excited about might be tough to move pretty soon.

Right now, Marshall's contract is part of the draw with him. I hope Dan is right and he stays at the MLE, because if he gets some kind of more lucrative extension he's very quickly going to join the other two on the "uh oh" list.

[KillerLeft]

If I'm being totally honest, I think my biggest deadline disappointment is that all three of those guys (Gafford, PJW and Marshall) are still here. I know there's much to figure out and you don't want to be too hasty, but I think with PJW and Marshall in particular it's already pretty clear it's in everyone's best interest for them to be elsewhere. Since PJW wasn't eligible for trades yet, I suppose I'm realizing after the fact how badly I was hoping for a Marshall trade.

[Smitty]

If I'm being totally honest, I think my biggest deadline disappointment is that all three of those guys (Gafford, PJW and Marshall) are still here. I know there's much to figure out and you don't want to be too hasty, but I think with PJW and Marshall in particular it's already pretty clear it's in everyone's best interest for them to be elsewhere. Since PJW wasn't eligible for trades yet, I suppose I'm realizing after the fact how badly I was hoping for a Marshall trade.

I think the Mavs used this transaction cycle to field calls and gauge the value of those guys. They had no pressing need to pull the trigger on them now, unless their asking price was met, with the AD trade giving them all the flexibility they were looking for. I think having those guys this summer, knowing their value around the league, will help them make additional moves to start the 'build around Flagg' process.

[KillerLeft]

I think the Mavs used this transaction cycle to field calls and gauge the value of those guys. They had no pressing need to pull the trigger on them now, unless their asking price was met, with the AD trade giving them all the flexibility they were looking for. I think having those guys this summer, knowing their value around the league, will help them make additional moves to start the 'build around Flagg' process.

This might be a good call and thought on your part. 

With Marshall in particular, I worry that we're witnessing the absolute apex of his career and that his value will only diminish as the team starts to use him in ways that make more sense for Flagg, but...I suppose there's not much reason to worry about that prior to the summer.

[michaeltex]

Been thinking about alternate timelines...

Along the lines of what if Luka was still here and his new max extension kicked in this year? He'd be making ~$70M annually over the next 5 years. More actually, since it would be tied to a % of the team cap. Without the draft capital traded away trying to build a team for him, how hamstrung would DAL have been? Would we be down to paying starters and hoping for rookie or VM contracts to fill the roster?

In other words, are we in better shape to build a contender than we were a couple years ago?

[mvossman]

This might be a good call and thought on your part. 

With Marshall in particular, I worry that we're witnessing the absolute apex of his career and that his value will only diminish as the team starts to use him in ways that make more sense for Flagg, but...I suppose there's not much reason to worry about that prior to the summer.

Yeah, I think that would be a concern after this season, but he should have nearly as much value in the offseason.  I think the mindset will be different in the offseason as well.  Less focus on expiring contracts and picks and more focus on players that fit better.

I mentioned this earlier, but I also wonder if Tyus Jones is on this roster to revive some of Gafford value.

[Chicagojk]

This might be a good call and thought on your part. 

With Marshall in particular, I worry that we're witnessing the absolute apex of his career and that his value will only diminish as the team starts to use him in ways that make more sense for Flagg, but...I suppose there's not much reason to worry about that prior to the summer.

My issue with Marshall is how he fits when his role decreases.  Both him and Max are playing bigger roles then they are really set up for.  For the most part, they are doing well in this roles.  I can picture Max fitting in his smaller role when this team is better.    I think this experience he is growing him will only help.   I have trouble seeing how Marshall excels in a smaller role where he is not asked to score 18 a game.   Maybe I am not seeing it and I think he provides a lot of good things to the team, but it is just harder to see.

[mvossman]

Been thinking about alternate timelines...

Along the lines of what if Luka was still here and his new max extension kicked in this year? He'd be making ~$70M annually over the next 5 years. More actually, since it would be tied to a % of the team cap. Without the draft capital traded away trying to build a team for him, how hamstrung would DAL have been? Would we be down to paying starters and hoping for rookie or VM contracts to fill the roster?

In other words, are we in better shape to build a contender than we were a couple years ago?

I think if you do the what if with Luka, it would have to be that Nico never came into full power.  This is somewhat of a guess, but in that scenario the differences on this team are:

Still have Luka (obviously)
still have DJJ
still have Grimes
still sign Naji while dumping Green

You would not have:

AD
Max
Hardy extension
Klay
Caleb Martin
Dlo

I would have to look at the numbers to see where they were at with Luka extension.  They would not have paid tax last season and they would be in a contention window (so reasonable to pay tax now), and we would not have had all the bad cap that Nico added.  We probably would have been arguing about the Grimes potential contract.

I think with Luka we would have had a multiple year contention window.  With quality moves (Linsey would have been our best bet for that) I think they could have extended that window into his extension.  We have traded that window for a future window (thanks to Flagg luck).  Given how the KP thing worked out, we are probably in a better position starting next season than we were in Luka 2nd year.  Hopefully we do a better job than we did last time.

[Mavs2021]

I like Marshall, but his best role is the direct backup to Flagg as their offensive games (attack the basket off the dribble and shoot a three if you absolutely have to) are similar.  His full allowable extension is too high for that role.  He's probably made himself some money this season, but there isn't a team out there that is going to pay over the MLE for him.

Unfortunately, PJ next to Flagg is even worse than Marshall next to Flagg.  I don't think we have our answer at this position yet.  Both PJ and Marshall are nice players to have and I'd probably like to have one of them off of my bench longer term.  But neither is critical to what needs to be built around Flagg.

I honestly have absolutely no idea how you all make judgements based on THIS season. It means absolutely NOTHING. We literally have no active NBA-level PG on the roster to sync the offense. PJ Washington is dealing with small injuries and larger personal problems. Why should his focus be on the court, when we are tanking? If anything the last few weeks have shown that Marshall and Flagg are a very good fit, despite no elite PG. They are both thriving, keeping most games competitive, while accomplishing the desired outcome: losses. If the Mavs wanted, they could have traded for just a Lavine or Simons type, and easily made the play-in imho.

[Chicagojk]

Mavs on a 6 game losing streak and now head on the road for 6 games.  They are 5-15 on the road.  The first four games the Mavs will be substantial underdogs.   The last two are against the Pacers (who dallas typically loses to) and the Nets.  May be awhile until they get another win.  

March is also tough.  a lot of road games.

[Smitty]

That is 3 Massive unknowns. Wisdom say we won't be that much competitive with those tbh 

If we are a bit lucky with health, I see a team in the play-in (7-10 range).

Definitely big unknowns. No argument there. I just can't help but think watching the Mavs this season, seeing Flagg's growth, and think what if Kyrie was playing... All these clutch games that are losses. Having Kyrie turns a lot of them into wins? This team is competitive night in and night out because Flagg is that good already. Year 2 Flagg? Add Kyrie? That alone gives me quite a bit of optimism... The Lively part of the equation, I admit, I view only as a "bonus". It's not even worth uttering the words "if healthy" anymore. For Kai, I don't expect him to be playing at the near All-Star level he was prior to the injury, but I do expect him to be wayyy better than Nembhard and Williams.

[KillerLeft]

Mavs on a 6 game losing streak and now head on the road for 6 games.  They are 5-15 on the road.  The first four games the Mavs will be substantial underdogs.   The last two are against the Pacers (who dallas typically loses to) and the Nets.  May be awhile until they get another win.  

March is also tough.  a lot of road games.

Yeah, they have one of the toughest schedules remaining, and the bill has come due for them getting all those home games to start the season (which they squandered). They'll have no trouble losing, that's for sure.