Game 45: Dallas Mavericks (18-26) @ Golden State Warriors (25-19) | 6:30pm

[Scott41theMavs]

I know it's heretical, but I'm enjoying this little winning streak.

[Winter]

I know it's heretical, but I'm enjoying this little winning streak.

Agreed. I think there's a lot to be learned from seeing these particular players play rather than just the won-loss. I said this yesterday, but we're probably looking at good players who will occasionally play well. Their biggest problems are turnovers and perimeter shooting. Those two problems are sometimes so glaring that we forget that this team is playing well in transition, and continues to improve defensively. They rank 5th in the number of blocked shots, 1st in defensive rebounding, and 6th in overall defensive rating. Anthony Davis has played in less than half the games, so those stats aren't weighted solely because of him.  

In other words, if this team plays well on the offensive end, they stand a good chance of winning the game. I just don't believe it possible to force this team to tank at this point in the season. I think they need how to learn to play well together.

[mvossman]

In other words, if this team plays well on the offensive end, they stand a good chance of winning the game. I just don't believe it possible to force this team to tank at this point in the season. I think they need how to learn to play well together.

Who is "they"?  We started Dwight Powel and Caleb Martin.  Do you think the long term plan is to start Naji Marshall and play him 30 minutes?  No matter what happens at the TDL and offseason, this team will look nothing like what we are throwing out there now.

[Chicagojk]

I hope Cooper keeps shooting threes.  He shot 5 last night.   Three were wide open.  Two were contested.  He probably made the toughest look.   He probably passed up another 5 more where he had great looks.   Keep shooting them.

[Winter]

Who is "they"?  We started Dwight Powel and Caleb Martin.  Do you think the long term plan is to start Naji Marshall and play him 30 minutes?  No matter what happens at the TDL and offseason, this team will look nothing like what we are throwing out there now.

So you don't want them to play well? What's your point? You want them to play poorly? I'm not following.

If you prefer, then "They" is Flagg, Christie, Cisse, Nembhard, Kelly. They need to learn how this Mavericks offense functions when it functions well.

[mvossman]

So you don't want them to play well? What's your point? You want them to play poorly? I'm not following.

If you prefer, then "They" is Flagg, Christie, Cisse, Nembhard, Kelly. They need to learn how this Mavericks offense functions when it functions well.

I want individuals to develop, but I realize its in the Mavs interest to lose games.  I have little to no interest in that group of 5 learning how to play together.  Next season those guys (except Flagg and Max) should be 3rd stringers at best.  I don't expect any of them to have much impact on Mavs future success.

[Winter]

I want individuals to develop, but I realize its in the Mavs interest to lose games.  I have little to no interest in that group of 5 learning how to play together.  Next season those guys (except Flagg and Max) should be 3rd stringers at best.  I don't expect any of them to have much impact on Mavs future success.

Do you think it's in the player's best interest to lose games at mid-season? How about season ticket holders? Good for them?

[mvossman]

Do you think it's in the player's best interest to lose games at mid-season?

I think multiple years of aggressive tanking can have a significant impact to culture and players.  

I think losing a lot of games in your first season is par for the course for #1 picks.  They all have to go through it.

Just to be clear, I don't think anybody is suggesting these players should not give it their all.  Tanking is done at the FO level, and possibly coaching.

I agree that it sucks that its better for this team long term to lose games now.  I have said in the past I am kind of glad that Mavs burned their control of future picks so we will not be in this position again.

[Winter]

I think multiple years of aggressive tanking can have a significant impact to culture and players.  

I think losing a lot of games in your first season is par for the course for #1 picks.  They all have to go through it.

Just to be clear, I don't think anybody is suggesting these players should not give it their all.  Tanking is done at the FO level, and possibly coaching.

I agree that it sucks that its better for this team long term to lose games now.  I have said in the past I am kind of glad that Mavs burned their control of future picks so we will not be in this position again.

Well the FO isn't tanking now, that's for sure. Flagg was supposed to be on limited minutes and went way over that last night.

I disagree with you obviously.

[mvossman]

Well the FO isn't tanking now, that's for sure. Flagg was supposed to be on limited minutes and went way over that last night.

I disagree with you obviously.

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with?  

Are you suggesting losing games is doing irreparable harm to the players?

Are you suggesting this organization should do everything they can to win games and make the play-in?

I would argue if the Mavs finish with top 10 lottery odds, I think they will have a better chance of finding a Robin for Flagg in this loaded draft than they will in the next 5 drafts combined.  Is that not worthy of consideration?

I'm not sure the Mavs are not semi tanking now.  Kidd did start Caleb Martin and play him 20 minutes.  He scored 0 points and was a -24 in an 8 point win.  I don't even know how you do that.  His fellow starters were all in the +20s.

[Winter]

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with?  

Are you suggesting losing games is doing irreparable harm to the players?

Are you suggesting this organization should do everything they can to win games and make the play-in?

I would argue if the Mavs finish with top 10 lottery odds, I think they will have a better chance of finding a Robin for Flagg in this loaded draft than they will in the next 5 drafts combined.  Is that not worthy of consideration?

I'm not sure the Mavs are not semi tanking now.  Kidd did start Caleb Martin and play him 20 minutes.  He scored 0 points and was a -24 in an 8 point win.  I don't even know how you do that.  His fellow starters were all in the +20s.

I'm suggesting that the Mavericks approach games now just like they usually do. You typically play games and compete to win. You don't lose games at mid-season to wiggle your way down from the 9th seed to the 6th seed. Not at this point. There's too many variables. 

What you seem to be saying is that the FO and coaches can manufacture a loss at mid-season without anyone suspecting it (including the players and season ticket holders), and that they are "semi-tanking" now? That's what you're saying? They start Caleb Martin in order to tank, but yet play Flagg more than his restricted minutes? That's "semi-tanking"? If it is, they aren't very good at it. What's the use of "semi-tanking" when you win?

[mvossman]

I'm suggesting that the Mavericks approach games now just like they usually do. You typically play games and compete to win. You don't lose games at mid-season to wiggle your way down from the 9th seed to the 6th seed. Not at this point. There's too many variables. 

What you seem to be saying is that the FO and coaches can manufacture a loss at mid-season without anyone suspecting it (including the players and season ticket holders), and that they are "semi-tanking" now? That's what you're saying? They start Caleb Martin in order to tank, but yet play Flagg more than his restricted minutes? That's "semi-tanking"? If it is, they aren't very good at it. What's the use of "semi-tanking" when you win?

I mean for most of this conversation I was not commenting on whether this team was tanking or not.  I simply said that I am not concerned if a bunch of two way and vet min players learn how to play together.  It has no impact on Mavs long term success.  From my perspective, those guys getting this team wins is a net negative.

As for whether this team is semi-tanking now, I have no idea.  I'm not sure what they are doing.  I think they should be tanking.  If I wanted to tank, starting Caleb Martin with no PG would a strong way to do it.  Don't know why they played Flagg past his restriction.  That may be more about Flagg than winning/losing games.

[myconsumerclub]

Tanking is going to be easier as the schedule toughens. The were playing injured GSW.

[Smitty]

Tanking is going to be easier as the schedule toughens. The were playing injured GSW.

If the Mavs win tonight will it be because the Lakers were missing Reaves?

[myconsumerclub]

Well then Reaves and Luka won't combine for 73 points so we should do okay

[myconsumerclub]

up by 9 in the 4th less 6 mins left

[myconsumerclub]

both teams going small no center 4:40

[myconsumerclub]

mavs holding on 102 - 97 4:00

[myconsumerclub]

102-99 2 shots for max on a Jake R foul

[myconsumerclub]

104-101