Can we build around Derek Lively?

[BigDirk41]

@ShamsCharania
Dallas Mavericks center Dereck Lively II will undergo season-ending right foot procedure to address lingering discomfort, sources tell me and Tim MacMahon. Lively, who played 7 games this season, is expected to make a full recovery.



As for extension talks this summer. I think the most I'm offering is 4/$30M with a TO. Any higher and it needs to be structured like the Zion contract, or the FO needs to let it play out and see if he can stay healthy before reaching RFA the following summer.

Yeah I agree. His value is at an all time low. I don't think I would go higher than your 4/30 idea. At some point, the guy needs to earn his money and keep. I feel for him, but he's more fragile than Street Clothes. He certainly isn't getting big money from the Mavs or anyone else.

[KillerLeft]

I’m still buying real estate on Lively island, for those selling. He’s still the 2nd most important Maverick to me. Have your people reach out to my buyers!

[Smitty]

I’m still buying real estate in Lively island, for those selling. He’s still the 2nd most important Maverick to me. Have your people reach out to my buyers!

That rookie year playoff run was impressive! Big men with foot injuries is concerning. 98 games played out of 246 in his career is concerning. He’s such a likeable human being and the defensive impact and potential is there… I think we’re reaching Greg Oden territory though.

As a stake holder and buyer of all Lively stock, if you were the GM, what would you be willing to offer him in an extension this summer?

[KillerLeft]

That rookie year playoff run was impressive! Big men with foot injuries is concerning. 98 games played out of 246 in his career is concerning. He’s such a likeable human being and the defensive impact and potential is there… I think we’re reaching Greg Oden territory though.

As a stake holder and buyer of all Lively stock, if you were the GM, what would you be willing to offer him in an extension this summer?

The thing is, it's way more than that run of surprising good play during his rookie year. There were a couple of short down periods that year and last, as he came off of injuries and played himself back into rhythm, but basically he's been GREAT most of the time he's played, including the few games he played this season, when he made an impact one could call team altering with a soberly straight face. Frankly, there aren't many players in the sport who can make the type of impact he does.

I’d make a run at getting him on the cheapest possible extension, but as someone mentioned in another thread I doubt he’d take it. He’s shown too much promise already not to bet on himself. I’d be content to play the situation out and make the call down the road. But, I’m nowhere near trying to replace him or anything like that. I’ll hope this move has him ready to go to start next season, and that the timing of that syncs up with a team ready to benefit.

[meistermatze]

The thing is, it's way more than that run of surprising good play during his rookie year. There were a couple of short down periods that year and last, as he came off of injuries and played himself back into rhythm, but basically he's been GREAT most of the time he's played, including the few games he played this season, when he made an impact one could call team altering with a soberly straight face. Frankly, there aren't many players in the sport who can make the type of impact he does.

I’d make a run at getting him on the cheapest possible extension, but as someone mentioned in another thread I doubt he’d take it. He’s shown too much promise already not to bet on himself. I’d be content to play the situation out and make the call down the road. But, I’m nowhere near trying to replace him or anything like that. I’ll hope this move has him ready to go to start next season, and that the timing of that syncs up with a team ready to benefit.

That assumes, some team is desperate enough to offer him (kind of) big money, which I think is possible, but doubtful. I mean anybody with half a brain can see the red flags with his injury history. But yeah, you never know, there's always the Kings left to make a stupid move.

I would really like to keep trying with him if it is for cheap, because we drafted him, he showed great potential and is a really nice guy, but if someone outbids us? Sayonara, my friend.

[Mavs2021]

That rookie year playoff run was impressive! Big men with foot injuries is concerning. 98 games played out of 246 in his career is concerning. He’s such a likeable human being and the defensive impact and potential is there… I think we’re reaching Greg Oden territory though.

As a stake holder and buyer of all Lively stock, if you were the GM, what would you be willing to offer him in an extension this summer?

60/4 with an early termination option after year two and three depending on games played. Let´s not forget the MLE is like 13M already. Got to give some incentive to not run it into RFA. Also he is such a good guy. If we can give Dwight Powell 4M/year for nothing, we can take care of an extraordinary human being that lost both his parents at a young age already. And if he comes back and plays 80% of games over that four year contract it´s a super bargain.

[KillerLeft]

That assumes, some team is desperate enough to offer him (kind of) big money, which I think is possible, but doubtful.

Huh? I don't see how I've assumed that. I haven't even suggested it, actually.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Foot and leg injuries are the bane for bigs 7 ft and taller. That's what derailed Yao Ming, Greg Oden, Rik Smits, and Bill Walton's careers. I hope Lively can overcome them, but the proof is there.

[Mavs2021]

Foot and leg injuries are the bane for bigs 7 ft and taller. That's what derailed Yao Ming, Greg Oden, Rik Smits, and Bill Walton's careers. I hope Lively can overcome them, but the proof is there.

They were all much heavier than Lively, and I´d argue Yao and Smits had "long" careers. Yao was horrendously managed by the Rockets. Playing 100 games without a break for three straight seasons ruined him. If you factor in his Chinese career, he´s still 120 games ahead of Embiid for example. Smits played 867 games. That´s more than 10 full seasons. He´s literally the child on the Kareem poster for durable big men.

Walton and especially Oden were screwed from the start. To me Oden over Durant is still one of the top 3 draft blunders of all-time It´s not hindsight either. This was so obvious from the beginning.

[SkenfromLMF]

To think Portland made that type of mistake twice with Bowie and then Oden.

Of course people on the outside of Dallas fans would look at the Mavs and think every time we land a franchise PG we dump them for pennies on the dollar. before they hit their prime.

[Smitty]

@MavsFilmRoom

Tim MacMahon stated that the previous Mavs medical staff (led by Casey Smith) raised some concerns about Dereck Lively during the 2023 draft process, but they were ignored by the former Mavs general manager.

Obviously Lively had a productive rookie season

[FireNicoHarrison]

Trade him until he has some value... I love the kid, he has great basketball IQ and awesome hard working but he can't play.

[meistermatze]

Huh? I don't see how I've assumed that. I haven't even suggested it, actually.

Well, I guess I misunderstood what you meant by suggesting he’d “bet on himself.” You meant that he would reject any low immediate offers (from us or others) and play himself into shape in order to earn a bigger contract.

I continued that line of thought and assumed that, at the end of that scenario, he would have played himself into shape, increased his value, and then receive big money from someone. That’s the part I doubt, because I don’t see him staying healthy.

That’s why I actually think he will take a smaller deal from us for security reasons. I think that would be the smart play. If he defies the odds, he can always cash in on the next contract — he’s young enough. If he goes the route you suggested, I’d fear a Nerlens Noel–type career for him.

[mvossman]

Well, I guess I misunderstood what you meant by suggesting he’d “bet on himself.” You meant that he would reject any low immediate offers (from us or others) and play himself into shape in order to earn a bigger contract.

I continued that line of thought and assumed that, at the end of that scenario, he would have played himself into shape, increased his value, and then receive big money from someone. That’s the part I doubt, because I don’t see him staying healthy.

That’s why I actually think he will take a smaller deal from us for security reasons. I think that would be the smart play. If he defies the odds, he can always cash in on the next contract — he’s young enough. If he goes the route you suggested, I’d fear a Nerlens Noel–type career for him.

I think its less likely they come to an agreement because there is so much variability in outcome.  It will be really hard to come up with a number that makes sense for both sides.

[Mavs2021]

@MavsFilmRoom

Tim MacMahon stated that the previous Mavs medical staff (led by Casey Smith) raised some concerns about Dereck Lively during the 2023 draft process, but they were ignored by the former Mavs general manager.

Obviously Lively had a productive rookie season

Would be interesting to know what these concerns were. Already visible existing problem areas? General concerns with his size or build?

I remember when Hartenstein was projected to be in the lottery and started to drop like a stone due to a flagged knee issue. Already played more games than Embiid.

[KillerLeft]

Well, I guess I misunderstood what you meant by suggesting he’d “bet on himself.” You meant that he would reject any low immediate offers (from us or others) and play himself into shape in order to earn a bigger contract.

No, he's under contract. The recent conversation has been about whether or not each of us would extend him. He's eligible this summer, I believe, but there is more time left on his rookie deal. I'm saying yes, I'd offer a lowball extension (very low) on the off chance I could get a steal out of his misfortune, but my guess is that he'd bet on himself and not take it. Both parties will simply play the last year of his deal out and kick this can of a negotiation down the road, I'll bet. 

At that point, the scenario you're referring to comes into play.

[meistermatze]

Gotcha.

[DanSchwartzgan]

No, he's under contract. The recent conversation has been about whether or not each of us would extend him. He's eligible this summer, I believe, but there is more time left on his rookie deal. I'm saying yes, I'd offer a lowball extension (very low) on the off chance I could get a steal out of his misfortune, but my guess is that he'd bet on himself and not take it. Both parties will simply play the last year of his deal out and kick this can of a negotiation down the road, I'll bet. 

At that point, the scenario you're referring to comes into play.

A steal like this would put us in danger when the cheap second contract is nearing its end.  Assuming the 40% rule on extensions still exists, we'd be in the same situation Chicago is in with White.  I'd rather punt a year on the extension and get a better idea where he is.  He'll still be restricted.

[KillerLeft]

A steal like this would put us in danger when the cheap second contract is nearing its end.  Assuming the 40% rule on extensions still exists, we'd be in the same situation Chicago is in with White.  I'd rather punt a year on the extension and get a better idea where he is.  He'll still be restricted.

This is a fair point. 

On another topic, how much longer are you going to go with "#1 Green Defender" as your title?

[DanSchwartzgan]

This is a fair point. 

On another topic, how much longer are you going to go with "#1 Green Defender" as your title?

Someone else did that and I don't know how to change it.