Ryan Nembhard

[Winter]

At under 6 feet, its going to be really hard for him not to be.  He does not have the bulk of somebody like VanVleet to make up for the lack of height.

That's a little too much of a pigeonhole for me. 

Every NBA player at about 6' is a problem defender?  Is every player with a particular wingspan a problem as well? Desmond Bane has a short wingspan, so... Footwork maybe? Lots of tall players have that problem. 

I'm not denying every player he's defending will want to find some kind of advantage, but the question will be how limiting is it to the team's production.

[mvossman]

That's a little too much of a pigeonhole for me. 

Every NBA player at about 6' is a problem defender?  Is every player with a particular wingspan a problem as well? Desmond Bane has a short wingspan, so... Footwork maybe? Lots of tall players have that problem. 

I'm not denying every player he's defending will want to find some kind of advantage, but the question will be how limiting is it to the team's production.

There is a very strong correlation between undersized players and defensive issues.  There is a reason the best pure point guard in college did not get drafted.

[Winter]

There is a very strong correlation between undersized players and defensive issues.  There is a reason the best pure point guard in college did not get drafted.

I agree, and that probably is the reason he wasn't drafted. But a lot of the draft thinking is about hard measurements. Teams really have to make assumptions about a player when they make the leap to the NBA.

The point I'm making is about the Mavericks though (or the point I meant to make). There may not be enough games to fully know the answer, but who do you want to take Nembies starting minutes? We need an extra PG I think. But is Nembhart so much of a "problem defender" that you want a bigger point guard to take away 5-7 minutes away from him? I'm not sure I do.

I'm thinking we should wait for awhile until some real defensive measurements help us understand if he's less of a "problem defender" at 25 mpg than 32 mpg.

[ballsrchr]

At under 6 feet, its going to be really hard for him not to be.  He does not have the bulk of somebody like VanVleet to make up for the lack of height.

Ah, but Nembhard has vision, anticipation, and knows how to move on defense--not just offense.  Watch and you will see!  He has speed, but doesn't rely on it--he knows how to pace himself.  He seems pretty sturdy to me--he weighs 180 pounds at 5' 11" tall (I'm not sure I believe that height).  His durability is something we (he) will have to watch, along with his trainers and coach.  The best player in the world does no good if he is run into the ground.  Vanvleet weighs 197 @ 6' tall.

[Winter]

Mvossman and Killer have legitamate concerns, so I get the assumption. I had them too. I'm just questioning it.

I think Barea is probably the closest in size to Nembie, but Barea's championship year in 2011, was his fifth in the league. His fifth! He rode the pine for much of his rookie year. Nembhardt has played in like 10 games. And really, what we've seen is what anyone can see at Gonzaga on Youtube. He led the nation in assists and shot 40% from 3 during his senior year. What we've seen is probably who he is.

So I'm just not assuming the Mavericks will ever suffer because he's playing starter minutes.

[mvossman]

I agree, and that probably is the reason he wasn't drafted. But a lot of the draft thinking is about hard measurements. Teams really have to make assumptions about a player when they make the leap to the NBA.

The point I'm making is about the Mavericks though (or the point I meant to make). There may not be enough games to fully know the answer, but who do you want to take Nembies starting minutes? We need an extra PG I think. But is Nembhart so much of a "problem defender" that you want a bigger point guard to take away 5-7 minutes away from him? I'm not sure I do.

I'm thinking we should wait for awhile until some real defensive measurements help us understand if he's less of a "problem defender" at 25 mpg than 32 mpg.

Right now there is no question you run Nembhard out there as much as you can.  There is no better alternative, especially if he keeps playing anywhere near what he is doing these last couple of games.  This is more about long term role.  If he ends up being a quality bench PG it will be a huge win given that he is an undrafted two way player.  But my guess is this team is eventually going to need to go out and get a starting point guard for the long term.

[mvossman]

Mvossman and Killer have legitamate concerns, so I get the assumption. I had them too. I'm just questioning it.

I think Barea is probably the closest in size to Nembie, but Barea's championship year in 2011, was his fifth in the league. His fifth! He rode the pine for much of his rookie year. Nembhardt has played in like 10 games. And really, what we've seen is what anyone can see at Gonzaga on Youtube. He led the nation in assists and shot 40% from 3 during his senior year. What we've seen is probably who he is.

So I'm just not assuming the Mavericks will ever suffer because he's playing starter minutes.

It would be great if Nembhard becomes another JJ (we need a lot more sample to pencil that in), but JJ was a career bench player at roughly 20 minutes a game.  That is the more likely long term role Nembhard will fill.

[Winter]

Jason Timpf - Hoopsworld Tonight

Ryan Nembhard discussion at about the 10:30 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u67Ea3by3MI

[KillerLeft]

Is Nembhard a "problem defender"?

If he's forced to switch onto Anthony Edwards or Luka, yes, absolutely. And, that is the exact, cookie cutter approach we've seen basically every team take in the playoffs against basically every opponent for the past several years. 

I'm not meaning to suggest he can't succeed, just that there will be hurdles to overcome. Pretty obvious ones.

[ThisIStheYear]

I’m not really sold on Nembhard as a regular starter yet (though he’s a better PG than any healthy player on the roster) because of his height and potential defensive liability. But, he’s about the same height as Chris Paul, who was an excellent defensive player. Maybe Nembhard, who seems to have good defensive instincts, can be at least adequate on that side of the floor.

[mvossman]

Jason Timpf - Hoopsworld Tonight

Ryan Nembhard discussion at about the 10:30 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u67Ea3by3MI

Good stuff as always from Jason.  Its hard not to get a little triggered when he talks about AD always starting the season out of shape.  Wasn't that the primary complaint about Luka?  I still can't believe that trade actually happened.

[Chicagojk]

If he's forced to switch onto Anthony Edwards or Luka, yes, absolutely. And, that is the exact, cookie cutter approach we've seen basically every team take in the playoffs against basically every opponent for the past several years. 

I'm not meaning to suggest he can't succeed, just that there will be hurdles to overcome. Pretty obvious ones.

Yeah even if he proves to be the real deal, playoffs is a different story.  His size will probably limit him but that is not to say you take advantage of his strengths and he can be effective, even in the playoffs.  It is really hard for a small guy though.  Not impossible but hard.  Dallas may be able to hide him some.

I was wondering though, if this is real could you play him and Kyrie together for stretches.  With a big frontline you may be able to do it and rev up the pace.

[Winter]

Yeah, the only good thing I get from Jason Timpf about AD is that it looks like AD can handle his weight over the season better than LuKa did.

Still, it makes me feel like AD has a short life span. As good as he is, I think his shelf-life is limited here. I just can't imagine a scenario where AD stays much beyond the TD, and if he does I just pray it ends with him being healthy.

[Winter]

I was wondering though, if this is real could you play him and Kyrie together for stretches.  With a big frontline you may be able to do it and rev up the pace.

Those two on the floor together would almost force you to play fast. That seems like a pretty specialized situation. When Kyrie comes back, I think they will need a different solution.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Last four games (according to Stein):  17 points, 7.5 assists, 1.3 TO’s.  .651 FG%, .667 3%.

You realize that if he has a 15/5 night with 3 TO’s and hits half of his shots and 40% of his 3’s that it will feel like he’s regressing.

[FireNicoHarrison]

Solid back-up PG who can start some games during the RS.

To be an high level NBA starter with this size you have to be special.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

That's a little too much of a pigeonhole for me. 

Every NBA player at about 6' is a problem defender?  Is every player with a particular wingspan a problem as well? Desmond Bane has a short wingspan, so... Footwork maybe? Lots of tall players have that problem. 

I'm not denying every player he's defending will want to find some kind of advantage, but the question will be how limiting is it to the team's production.

Bane, Brunson and other similar players have strength and girth despite a lack of height. Nembhard has neither. He's a nice player but he's always going to have a problem defending and getting posted up. Even the great Allen Iverson had problems defending taller, bigger guards.

[Chicagojk]

I dont think he has been bad on defense.  Size will limit his effectiveness but he appears to be smart and he fights hard.  I think he is our best defending point guard with the active players we had.

OKC sort of shut him down last night.  He won’t score 10 often with the difficulty of shots he took.  oKC flustered the whole offense in the second and third and made it tough for everyone.  I am not sure where I would start to get close to that OKC machine.  They have undrafted, forgotten players that look great in their machine.  It is quite remarkable and would love to get a better understanding of the insides of their team/ organization.

[Winter]

Bane, Brunson and other similar players have strength and girth despite a lack of height. Nembhard has neither. He's a nice player but he's always going to have a problem defending and getting posted up. Even the great Allen Iverson had problems defending taller, bigger guards.

And Iverson started every game. That's been my point. You just helped make it. Iverson averaged over 40 mpg during the first decade of his career. Nembhard is not Iverson so please don't read that comparison into this. I'm arguing about Nembhard's value to the team. My point is that if the Mavs started a bigger PG, Nembhard's attributes may still outweigh the deficencies for having starter minutes. That's what I'm getting at. Dlo is a bigger PG than Nembhard, but you wouldn't want him getting those minutes.

Which leads to another thought (and I don't know the answer). How eager are you to acquire Coby White now? How much of the Mavericks assets should be designated to acquiring a player like White? Does Nembhard make you consider other options for that same value?

My personal feeling now is that if the Mavs go after a PG, it may need be someone other than Coby White and perhaps Ball (who injured his ankle last night). Those players may be over-valued now at the cost of their contracts relative to the Mavs actual needs.

[mvossman]

And Iverson started every game. That's been my point. You just helped make it. Iverson averaged over 40 mpg during the first decade of his career. Nembhard is not Iverson so please don't read that comparison into this. I'm arguing about Nembhard's value to the team. My point is that if the Mavs started a bigger PG, Nembhard's attributes may still outweigh the deficencies for having starter minutes. That's what I'm getting at. Dlo is a bigger PG than Nembhard, but you wouldn't want him getting those minutes.

Which leads to another thought (and I don't know the answer). How eager are you to acquire Coby White now? How much of the Mavericks assets should be designated to acquiring a player like White? Does Nembhard make you consider other options for that same value?

My personal feeling now is that if the Mavs go after a PG, it may need be someone other than Coby White and perhaps Ball (who injured his ankle last night). Those players may be over-valued now at the cost of their contracts relative to the Mavs actual needs.

I think there are big questions about guys like Coby White and Ball and whether it makes sense to trade for them, but I don't see Nembhard impacting those decisions.  There is a big difference between what makes sense for this team right now and what makes sense for building a long term contender.