Preseason Game 1: Dallas Mavericks (0-0) vs. OKC (1-0) | 7:30pm CST

[mvossman]

I know I’ve said it a lot the past 2-3 years, but Hardy is not an NBA-level player. The THJ-lite nickname I gave him his probably being generous. Nico missed on that one in the draft and doubled down with a bad contract.

I thought PJ was clearly one of the best 5 yesterday. Right now, today, he’s better than Flagg.

I also thought Max was and is better than Klay.

AD looked slower than I remember him being. Maybe he wasn’t giving 100% because it’s preseason, but he’ll need to show more if he’s going to play 95% of his minutes at the 4.

I think this board, Mavs X, and other outlets don’t appreciate and understand just how good DLO will be for this team. Especially with no Kyrie.

I will reiterate that the closing 5 couldn’t be more obvious without Kai… DLO-Max-Flagg-PJ-AD.

Agree with a lot of this, but not ready to say Max is better than Klay.  Don't think he was last season, and its obviously too early to make that call for this season.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I also thought Max was and is better than Klay.


I will reiterate that the closing 5 couldn’t be more obvious without Kai… DLO-Max-Flagg-PJ-AD.

I thought Christie looked really dialed in Monday night.  I'm not ready to say "better than Klay" as I think Klay's shooting, leadership and championship pedigree are important.  But, Max was already closing games over Klay at times last year.  I see no reason for that to change.  I also think he's very much in a top 9 (over Naji) when Kyrie returns in games where the rotation starts to narrow.

[Smitty]

Agree with a lot of this, but not ready to say Max is better than Klay.  Don't think he was last season, and its obviously too early to make that call for this season.

I thought Christie looked really dialed in Monday night.  I'm not ready to say "better than Klay" as I think Klay's shooting, leadership and championship pedigree are important.  But, Max was already closing games over Klay at times last year.  I see no reason for that to change.  I also think he's very much in a top 9 (over Naji) when Kyrie returns in games where the rotation starts to narrow.

It was one of the more controversial statements I made there, but I'm ready to say it. It's no slight at Klay, as I think his role is important. The only thing he does better than Max at this stage of his career is shoot the three ball. With that comes gravity/spacing of course. I just think Max finishes better inside, slashes more, better passing, and of course better defensively on the perimeter. Klay is a perfect 6th man to me. When he's hot from 3, he plays more minutes. When he's not he plays less. The perfect guy for 16 points in 16 minutes type. Yes, his leadership and experience are invaluable, and that's earned him the starting spot for now. I just think Christie is the better overall player.

[michaeltex]

I thought Christie looked really dialed in Monday night.  I'm not ready to say "better than Klay" as I think Klay's shooting, leadership and championship pedigree are important.  But, Max was already closing games over Klay at times last year.  I see no reason for that to change.  I also think he's very much in a top 9 (over Naji) when Kyrie returns in games where the rotation starts to narrow.

My top 8, in no particular order if everyone is healthy...

Flagg
Irving
AD
Klay
PJW
DLive
Gaff
Russell

I would like to include Exum at #9, but I have zero confidence at this point that he will be a contributor.

Martin can't even get into a pre-season game and Hardy is a waste of a uniform.
 
So, yep, that leaves Max and Marshall as 9 & 10. Max is younger, runs the floor well and is an OK defender. Naji plays with more force, has acted as an enforcer and can have a great floater game. To me, it's kind of opponent dictated.

My druthers would be to have Max develop into a Klay replacement, since he's a little more on the timeline with Flagg/DLive. I'm hoping we can see more of whether Williams is a real contributor for the same reason.

[Winter]

I'm not seeing much similarity between Max and Klay. Max is very active on both offense and defense, but his perimeter shooting comes and goes. Klay likes to get position for a good jumper, and I suspect most defenses are super-aware of Klay's ability to hit a shot.

I think Max is a great substitution for Klay. He's quicker at this point and is a real change-of-pace for defenses. I like Max closing too, but I like that guard unit as it is.

[Smitty]

I'm not seeing much similarity between Max and Klay. Max is very active on both offense and defense, but his perimeter shooting comes and goes. Klay likes to get position for a good jumper, and I suspect most defenses are super-aware of Klay's ability to hit a shot.

I think Max is a great substitution for Klay. He's quicker at this point and is a real change-of-pace for defenses. I like Max closing too, but I like that guard unit as it is.

Yeah, I don't care who starts. I do care who closes though. I think Max gives you more versatility on offense and better defense overall. Of course, you have to take into account how each individual player is playing that night. Just for me, this season, I think Max fits that ideal role for the guard next to DLO in the closing group.

What will be interesting is if we see Kyrie+DLO closing a lot of games when Kai's back healthy. Maybe you can get away with their size limitations with having a massive frontcourt.

Kidd will use so many starting, closing, and just overall crazy rotations that it really doesn't matter what we think should happen. The good thing is, that this team is deep, so they should be able to survive some injuries and experimentation and still be a good regular season team.

[Jym]

I just hope Max is given a consistent role where he gets at least 25 mpg 
Kidd can be a little weird with minutes sometimes. In my head, developing Christie, Flagg, and Lively is the most important thing to accomplish this year

[meistermatze]

Only watched the first half where the starters played (I mean who give a sh*t about the rest, right?) and I saw an actual NBA team dominating a G-League-squad.

The offense looked weird, dribble hand-offs all the time but above average passing from some players made it work (Flagg and D-Lo). I also think we always have a couple of players on the court who can at least not turn the ball over and pass well (in relation to their actual position) - so that's good. Lively is great at that for a C, Davis is also fine, PJ, Klay, Christie and obviously Flagg and Kyrie are there as well. D-Lo is capable. I actually think, this is by design for this roster.

I think we all have to adjust to not seing real shot-creation in the classical sense anymore (aka Luka heliocentrism and Isos). Yes, Davis will demand some ISOS as will Kyrie when he's back and I am still not sure, if those two can deliver in the clutch the way Luka did (then again, who can?) but mostly, they will swing the ball, find the open man and just play ball.

I doubt our 3-point-shooting will be good enough to really play with the big boys but if we stay healthy in the postseason (big if), Kyrie gets back to 100% (also big if) until postseason and Flagg is a Top 20 player in this league right away (big if) we can do some real damage due to our (in most likelihoodl) amazing defense.

[Dahlsim]

....
I doubt our 3-point-shooting will be good enough to really play with the big boys ...

Outside of health, might be the most key factor in the season.  Which players have a reasonable chance of being in the 40% 3 point club for the season?   
Maybe Kyrie, and Klay? D-lo in a good shooting season.  Anyone else, PJ?  The team 3 point percentage, where will it stack up? 

Ability to win some games on hot and timely 3 point shooting.  Today's game requires it because the 'big boys' have it.

[Winter]

Actually, I think the only real 3-pt problem at the outset is AD. He's nowhere close to league average and he thinks he can shoot it.

All the others have a reasonable chance of shooting around 38%. Lively is untested. Marshall has done it before. Some rotation members could come and go, but I don't expect our typical lineup to look like something in the bottom half.

[Chicagojk]

Actually, I think the only real 3-pt problem at the outset is AD. He's nowhere close to league average and he thinks he can shoot it.

All the others have a reasonable chance of shooting around 38%. Lively is untested. Marshall has done it before. Some rotation members could come and go, but I don't expect our typical lineup to look like something in the bottom half.

Yeah, AD's percentage doesn't give a lot of confidence over his career.  Although, I would prefer him shooting a three than one of those long two point shots he takes.  Those are going to kill me this year, I think.

I have no expectation for Lively shooting a lot of threes, but I do think if it will ever happen he should shoot 40-50 this year.  That is at least a start.  No one is going to guard him out there but I would like to see him at least try.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Can't really get a true evaluation until the real season starts. OKC didn't play their core group, and the Mavs played their starters, and thumped them accordingly.

[michaeltex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a04d5HO45mE


Grant Afseth review of Flagg's first game.

[mvossman]

Actually, I think the only real 3-pt problem at the outset is AD. He's nowhere close to league average and he thinks he can shoot it.

All the others have a reasonable chance of shooting around 38%. Lively is untested. Marshall has done it before. Some rotation members could come and go, but I don't expect our typical lineup to look like something in the bottom half.

I think it very likely they will be in the bottom half overall (accounting for percentage and volume).  They are playing two bigs with no history of shooting from 3 well, and few players on this roster should be expected to shoot better than league average (some of them might, but Kyrie, Klay and maybe Dlo are the only ones you could reasonably expect).  Marshall has done it before but he shot 28% last season.  Hard to expect much spacing from him.  Other than the three mentioned players, there is nobody on this roster that shoots a lot of volume either.

[Dahlsim]

Actually, I think the only real 3-pt problem at the outset is AD. He's nowhere close to league average and he thinks he can shoot it.

All the others have a reasonable chance of shooting around 38%. Lively is untested. Marshall has done it before. Some rotation members could come and go, but I don't expect our typical lineup to look like something in the bottom half.

Bingo.  That's how I see it as well with AD.  He's a really great 2-way force but with him favoring the 4 position and now having a roster full of capable 5's behind him, his % from 3 and spacing ability can be the difference between a lot of W's and L's. 

Your #1 and #2 options in the star vs star wars that NBA games often come down 2 are expected to be AD and later Kyrie.  3pt. % and spacing from 3's will factor in all season to where the offense ends up overall. 

I think it very likely they will be in the bottom half overall (accounting for percentage and volume).  They are playing two bigs with no history of shooting from 3 well, and few players on this roster should be expected to shoot better than league average (some of them might, but Kyrie, Klay and maybe Dlo are the only ones you could reasonably expect). 

Marshall has done it before but he shot 28% last season.  Hard to expect much spacing from him.  Other than the three mentioned players, there is nobody on this roster that shoots a lot of volume either.

Throw the rookie Flagg in that mix as well since whatever he shoots is going to play significant role given he's poised to be in the play maker role.  How does this team stack up to Luka for offensive play creation?  

Interestingly enough Luka doesn't do his magic on the strength of a 40% ish 3 point threat although he does seem to have a J-Kidd like quality where he seems to shoot better when the shots are bigger.  Luka has the clutch factor just as Kyrie does which made the Mavs so dangerous even against elite comp. 

You could make the case however that his 3 may be getting better with age. 

Luka Dončić's career three-point shooting percentage is approximately 34.8%. His three-point shooting has varied over the seasons, with his best percentage being around 38.2% during the 2023-24 season.

[Smitty]

It was one of the more controversial statements I made there, but I'm ready to say it. It's no slight at Klay, as I think his role is important. The only thing he does better than Max at this stage of his career is shoot the three ball. With that comes gravity/spacing of course. I just think Max finishes better inside, slashes more, better passing, and of course better defensively on the perimeter. Klay is a perfect 6th man to me. When he's hot from 3, he plays more minutes. When he's not he plays less. The perfect guy for 16 points in 16 minutes type. Yes, his leadership and experience are invaluable, and that's earned him the starting spot for now. I just think Christie is the better overall player.

[Smitty]

Klay Thompson first two games:

9.0 points (10 FG attempts a game)
30 FG% 18.2 3PT%

Max Christie first two games:

9.0 points (5.5 FG attempts a game)
54.5 FG% 60 3PT%

Getting Klay going will help the offense look a little better but he does nothing for initiating offense, which this team lacks. It’ll be interesting to see how long Kidd keeps Klay in the starting group based on reputation alone. He only played 17 minutes game 2, which is closer to where he should be. A lot of issues with this offense so I’m not blaming Klay, but he’s supposed to be your 2nd leading scorer, right?

[KillerLeft]

Klay Thompson first two games:

9.0 points (10 FG attempts a game)
30 FG% 18.2 3PT%

Max Christie first two games:

9.0 points (5.5 FG attempts a game)
54.5 FG% 60 3PT%

Getting Klay going will help the offense look a little better but he does nothing for initiating offense, which this team lacks. It’ll be interesting to see how long Kidd keeps Klay in the starting group based on reputation alone. He only played 17 minutes game 2, which is closer to where he should be. A lot of issues with this offense so I’m not blaming Klay, but he’s supposed to be your 2nd leading scorer, right?

I don’t disagree with the frustration over Thompson, but…how on earth will they generate space for anything without even one, single shooting threat on the floor? 

Christie, Flagg, Davis and PJW aren’t shooters that demand respect, even when they’re shooting a higher percentage than Thompson. I still think he forces a defender to stick with him more tightly when he’s playing off the ball, even if it is just reputation. 

Defense does not win championships if your offense doesn’t scare anyone. The entire premise of this team’s architecture is flawed.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Klay made sense with Luka on the team. On the current roster, no one has the gravity to get Klay open looks. I think the shortcomings in his overall game currently hurt the Mavs more than his theoretical shooting helps the Mavs.

Maybe it will change when Kyrie comes back but in an ideal world, I think you move both AD and Klay to win now teams and build around Flagg.

[KillerLeft]

I think you move both AD and Klay to win now teams and build around Flagg.

If you do that, you’d better move Kyrie out, too.