MAVS NEWS:

[Smitty]

I'd have to look into Clayton Jr because I am unfamiliar with him, but in a general sense this would be a great off-season, imho.

https://youtu.be/2QcKjwMxXxY


2003 | 6-3 | 6-4 WS | 199 LBS

Team: Florida

Best rank: 16 / Worst rank: 32

Agent: Klutch

2024-25 stats: 18.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.2 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.5 bpg, 44.8% FG, 38.6% 3P in 39 games this season

[FireNicoHarrison]

While I agree that trading AD could make sense long term, the Mavs are set up to win now. So what player is going to have appropriate value who can maintain "win now"? And more importantly who wants AD? Even if Nico surpised everyone with that trade, I have a hard time imagining a championship-caliber team immediately. It takes time for players to coordinate with each other.

If they trade AD, I think they have to change their timeline. That would actually be fine with me, but I don't think they do it.

Probably their timeline is still the same... It's very hard to win in next 3 years with old& injuried players.

[F Gump]

I would have no interest in Gaff for Clayton. Not sure thats legal anyhow. But its a waste of talent, basically a giveaway.

Gaff is very good talent. Even if you see him as surplus in DAL, Mavs must demand strong value (personally I would keep him, based on bang for the buck he offers). Clayton as the return is selling way low imo.

I am lukewarm at best on Clayton -- wondering if he's Trey Burke the 2nd, but don't know enough about him other than his name and his recent hero run. I suspect Mavs can do just as well with a GL veteran, and figure if WC was more than that, he'd be an easy lottery pick in this thin draft.

[F Gump]

While I agree that trading AD could make sense long term, the Mavs are set up to win now. So what player is going to have appropriate value who can maintain "win now"? And more importantly who wants AD? Even if Nico surpised everyone with that trade, I have a hard time imagining a championship-caliber team immediately. It takes time for players to coordinate with each other.

If they trade AD, I think they have to change their timeline. That would actually be fine with me, but I don't think they do it.

Kevin Durant checks a lot of boxes. An idea that's too quickly dismissed. Just saying

[Jmaciscool]

I read something about that at the time. Apparently coaches are not supposed to comment "out loud" about their draft picks before the draft. There are ways of getting around this like the silly "kid from Duke" comment. He probably could have said Cooper Flagg without any real ramifications. but that was a clumsy attempt at dodging a potential fine. I don't know if that's true, but that's what I read.

That makes sense. Plus didn't the Mavs get fined when Kidd mentioned that they had purposely tracked the last few games to keep their eventual Lively pick? He's probably just being extra cautious.

[Smitty]

I would have no interest in Gaff for Clayton. Not sute thats legal anyhow. But its a waste of talent, basically a giveaway.

Gaff is very good talent. Even if you see him as surplus in DAL, Mavs must demand strong value (personally I would keep him, based on bang for the buck he offers). Clayton as the return is selling way low imo.

I am lukewarm at best on Clayton -- wondering if he's Trey Burke the 2nd, but don't know enough about him other than his name and his recent hero run. I suspect Mavs can do just as well with a GL veteran, and figure if WC was more than that, he'd be an easy lottery pick in this thin draft.

I'm a huge fan of Gafford. I've argued with some frequent posters here about his importance. I think for me, I see the writing on the wall. That he won't be here next year. So, with that, it's about the preferred return. My scenario had them trading Gafford for a FRP (#22) and selected a combo guard that has a bit of Brunson to him (my opinion). Not that he will amount to anything, but I'll buy the upside and have him apart of the Flagg draft class.

Also, my offseason plan had the Mavs getting under the FIRST apron, while still fielding what I believe to be a competitive team. I think the salary structure across the 15-man is more balanced as well. Plus, it is better than some alternatives like Jrue Holiday, which would send me through the wall.

Guards - Kyrie, Paul, Williams, Clayton Jr.  ~$56M
Wings  - Klay, Christie, Flagg, PJW, Naji, Martin, Omax  ~$73M
Bigs - AD, Lively, Jones, Powell  ~$64M

[F Gump]

You didn't address the fact you can't do that trade iiuc.

You say you value Gaff but the return is pathetic. That's NTI-like, leaving so much value on the table. (Forget Clayton as the pick, and evaluate thr value of pick 22 to do whatever, and imo its nowhere near Gaff value.)

I don't think Gaff is necessarily priced out.in a year. If he's about same salary ...?

I see NO value in giving away talent to say we are A1 not A2. Team just is weaker, has less talent. What's the benefit?

[Smitty]

You didn't address the fact you can't do that trade iiuc.

You say you value Gaff but the return is pathetic. That's NTI-like, leaving so much value on the table. (Forget Clayton as the pick, and evaluate thr value of pick 22 to do whatever, and imo its nowhere near Gaff value.)

I don't think Gaff is necessarily priced out.in a year. If he's about same salary ...?

I see NO value in giving away talent to say we are A1 not A2. Team just is weaker, has less talent. What's the benefit?

Why can't you do the trade? 

I view the return as adequate, given the alternatives that have been discussed here. Especially if my view is that he will not be on the team next year.

The benefit is in the roster balance, not having to live with the worse alternatives discussed here, staying below A1, which provides the obvious team building benefits now and in the future, plus getting a young guard that I like in this draft.

[F Gump]

ATL doesn't have 14.5M in cap room to take Gaff for nothing.

The belief that Gaff won't be here long term may or may not be true. But we'll have to agree to disagree on whether a scrub pick is reasonable value -- to me it's fairly pathetic.

I don't understand the obsession with being under A1 this season, rather than A2. What benefit do you think has been gained?

[Winter]

Kevin Durant checks a lot of boxes. An idea that's too quickly dismissed. Just saying

I've been thinking about this ever since you posted it. 

AD for Durant trade does have a certain symmetry to it. It's one of those trades Nico might be able to get away with as it pertains to the fan base. However, I'm not sure it completely solves the congestion on the front line. It does help in the sense that the center position becomes simplified. And it creates a lot of flexibility at the PF and SF position. Players aren't forced out of position much. PJ could still be playing 30-35 mpg backing up both wing positions. Plus, I think the team could play faster. There's enough pluses to make me consider it.

But you still need a PG.

[Smitty]

ATL doesn't have 14.5M in cap room to take Gaff for nothing.

The belief that Gaff won't be here long term may or may not be true. But we'll have to agree to disagree on whether a scrub pick is reasonable value -- to me it's fairly pathetic.

I don't understand the obsession with being under A1 this season, rather than A2. What benefit do you think has been gained?

They have a TPE and can absorb all of Gafford’s salary?

No need to respond to the pathetic scrub pick comment.

There’s no obsession. Only that it opens up the full TMLE to use for Paul (if he won’t accept VetMin) and doesn’t trigger the penalties of being above A1, which may or may not be a useful option during the season:
S
-Sign players who were bought out for more than the non-taxpayer mid-level exception. 

-Trade in ways that allow them to take back more salary than they send out. 

-Use trade exceptions created in the previous season.

[Chicagojk]

This is good. Don’t know much about him, but nice to see some of the members in the front office can show a human side and not hide from everyone

https://x.com/mavsstudio41/status/192745...60825?s=46

[F Gump]

1 They have a TPE and can absorb all of Gafford’s salary? 

2 There’s no obsession. Only that it opens up the full TMLE to use for Paul (if he won’t accept VetMin)

3 and doesn’t trigger the penalties of being above A1, which may or may not be a useful option during the season:
S
-Sign players who were bought out for more than the non-taxpayer mid-level exception. 

-Trade in ways that allow them to take back more salary than they send out. 

-Use trade exceptions created in the previous season.

1 No. On paper they have one, but only a sliver of it can ever be used, far less than DG salary.
2 It doesn't take giving away Gaff to be able to sign CP3 or someone else to TxpMLE. There are worse players that can be given away to get the job done with room to spare.
3 Those A1 "perks" aren't useable simply by getting your gold star for being below A1. To use any of those, you get hard capped at A1 and can't go over it to use any of those, which means you have to go even farther below, so that you have a spread before getting back up to A1, before they come into play. Not very practical to shed good talent for benefits you can't really use. Item 1 above is a good example of that at play.

[Chicagojk]

I would be surprised if this front office moves Gafford for a pick in the 20's. I think Gafford has more value than that too. I have no idea what his value is, but he is a good player. If the pick was in the teens, maybe I could see it more. Although, I would be surprised if this team made a move like that.

[Smitty]

1 No. On paper they have one, but only a sliver of it can ever be used, far less than DG salary.
2 It doesn't take giving away Gaff to be able to sign CP3 or someone else to TxpMLE. There are worse players that can be given away to get the job done with room to spare.
3 Those T1 "perks" aren't useable simply by getting your gold star for being below A1. To use any of those, you get hard capped at A1 and can't go over it to use any of those, which means you have to go even farther below, so that you have a spread before getting back up to A1, before they come into play. Not very practical to shed good talent for benefits you can't really use. Item 1 above is a good example of that at play.

1.) Gafford for Pick 22 isn't my idea, just one I've seen. When I looked into the legality of it, there was nothing that stood out to me that made it impossible. It looked like ATL is hard capped at A2 this season and has $18.5M of room, a Murray TE of $25.2M, meaning they could absorb all of Gafford's $14.3M. I'm not going to act like I'm an expert on Atlanta's salary situation, but it seems like there's a path there, even if ATL has to send something back to the Mavs to make it work.

2) You continue to call it "giving away Gafford" when really you are getting a FRP for Gafford, in this made-up scenario that will never happen anyway... You don't value the first-round pick, I get it.

3) The perks of being below A1 are just that, perks. An additional benefit to my original offseason preference. Not the reason for making those particular moves.


I think we're closer to being on the same page about this team, especially Gafford, than you think. It's just that I've come to terms with the inevitability that he won't be in a Mavs uniform next season. If you start with that assumption, it makes what I've been saying more palatable. No need to continue down this path or get into the weeds further. Gafford is valuable to the Mavs, we'll soon see how they value him (extension, trade, starter, etc.)

[F Gump]

ATL is hard capped at A1. Their payroll is 170M plus. They can't take another 14M contract because they don't have that much room. Which means the trade idea won't work - they need to send trade matching salary to DAL, and now it gets complicated by player values vs salary to choke down.

Although, I think D Daniels' salary should work. Now I'm on board!

No I don't see a low FRP in a bad draft as being nearly enough value for Gaff. Feels like a giveaway. I'm reminded of how valuable a C like Gaff was to us before we got one (and think we're sleeping on his value to the Mavs) and now we are dismissive of expecting THAT sort of value when a team who needs a C comes looking.

Only if Gaff declines an extension do I look for a trade, but I am very optimistic such a deal is easily doable.

I don't accept the greater premise that Gaff is out the door inevitably, nor the ensuing premise that we gotta aim for something of dubious value which beats nothing. I think both are wrong, so the conclusion that follows is also wrong. I want strong talent in return.

Perks that you can't actually use are worthless, and offer no incentive to strip the roster of strong talent.

[FireNicoHarrison]

Agree with Gump, PJ&Gaff changed our time last year... Don't understimate them. Proven good players even in PO.

It's not so easy find guys like them, a pick around #20 can be a Josh Green or a Giannis... But most of the time is a Justin Anderson.

[Smitty]

I think what's getting lost in the discussion is what we think the Mavs will do this offseason. I'm not talking about the "value" of Gafford. I'm talking about the preferred options and the return for Gafford when he's inevitably moved. The counter argument is that you think Nico won't trade him, and that he'll get extended. That's fine if that's your position, I just disagree with that being the way THEY go.

The moves that have been discussed with any Gafford trade, at least from what I've seen here:
Gafford for Lonzo
Gafford+ for Sexton
Gafford to ATL for a FRP+
Gafford+PJ for Jrue
Gafford+PJ+FRP's for Derrick White
Gafford+Pick(s) for Coby White

In the OP, I was saying that the ATL idea was creeping to the top in my order of preference.

[loki]

ATL is hard capped at A1. Their payroll is 170M plus. They can't take another 14M contract because they don't have that much room. Which means the trade idea won't work - they need to send trade matching salary to DAL, and now it gets complicated by player values vs salary to choke down.

Could they not agree to a deal on draft night and execute it after July 1? They should have plenty of room under the 1st Apron once the 25-26 year begins. Their trade exception doesn't expire until 7/7.

[DallasMaverick]

Quick reminder about the value of first-round draft picks:

https://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

Looking at the stats for each draft position, you’d have to put Gafford as a top-10 pick. And he’s already developed, so there’s no risk involved.

It’s easy to want to trade my dull old quarter for that bright, shiny nickel.