Trade & FA 2024-25:

[KillerLeft]

PJ-Flagg-Street clothes is a hell of front court in the clutch.

It has the potential to be insane, defensively, as does replacing either AD or PJW with Lively. 

Step one would be: do you actually want Flagg playing 40-60% of his minutes at the 3, or do you want to stick him at his natural 4 position and build around him? 

Step two (if you get that far) would be: can you convince one of those four players to be happy about coming off the bench? That's where it falls apart, imho. Maaaaaaybe PJW is mature enough to realize it should be him? Lively off the bench would be great, too, and he's such a good dude I bet he'd be willing, but I'm not sure selling moving back to starting at center is such an easy sell to AD. 

But yeah, having those four defenders to mix/match throughout games/series would be awe-inspiring. Next level, defensively.

[cow]

PJ at 3. Flagg at the 4. Gaff/Lively at the 5. Powell on the bench waiving a towel. AD at the 4/5 for some other team.

[KillerLeft]

PJ at 3.  Flagg at the 4.  Gaff/Lively at the 5.  Powell on the bench waiving a towel.  AD at the 4/5 for some other team.

Given what you can get for AD, probably, I'd consider that, for sure. I don't think the Mavs will, however, so it feels like a waste to spend much energy imagining it. 

Plus, I actually think there's a world in which Flagg playing with AD to start his career does WONDERS for him, and in which the team is competitive very, very quickly. Hopefully, they find the right strings to pull in order to make that world a reality.

[Smitty]

I think PJW is a hell of a player, and the Mavs seem to agree. 

The amount of overlap he's going to have with Flagg in terms of size, position, minutes, MONEY, etc, is a conversation they must have. 

If you believe Flagg is a 3, long term, I agree - PJW is a player who fits with Flagg and is still young enough to help bridge the gap between now and the end of the draft capital wasteland years. Even then, it would be tough to navigate getting Lively, AD, PJW and Flagg roles that would keep everyone happy and paid well enough, I think, but worth a try. 

If you believe Flagg is a 4, long term, I don't see how PJW can be in the team's long term plans at all, in which case it's tough to imagine the high water mark for him, value-wise, getting much better (here, at least) than it is right now, this second. 

There are very interesting choices to be made this summer, and since it's crystal clear Harrison is the one who'll be making them, I sincerely hope he's up to the challenge.

There is an argument to be made, I suppose, for moving AD at this point, though I doubt that will happen, and personally, I would try to set my team up to capitalize on the short AD/Kyrie window while still being positioned to transition out of it quickly in a couple of years - Flagg makes that possible, but only if they get a few choices right.

I think Flagg is a 3/4. I think PJW in certain matchups is a 3/4. AD is obviously a 4/5. Without putting a label on the actual positions, I think they have the size and shooting ability to be Wings/Bigs depending on how one labels things. Especially with AD's injury history, I don't see an issue getting them all enough minutes. You're looking at 144 minutes slotted for those 3 positions with Lively and Naji being the only ones that need their ~20 mpg from those position groups. And some can/will place Naji in the Guard group.

[KillerLeft]

I think Flagg is a 3/4. I think PJW in certain matchups is a 3/4. AD is obviously a 4/5. Without putting a label on the actual positions, I think they have the size and shooting ability to be Wings/Bigs depending on how one labels things. Especially with AD's injury history, I don't see an issue getting them all enough minutes. You're looking at 144 minutes slotted for those 3 positions with Lively and Naji being the only ones that need their ~20 mpg from those position groups. And some can/will place Naji in the Guard group.

Dude, I had forgotten all about Marshall. Crazy how much front court talent this team has right now. 

I just don't think AD (or, by extension, Harrison/Kidd) will want to move back to "starting" at 5 at this point, despite all signs pointing to him likely finishing there. I think part of what sold AD on feeling good about coming here was playing what HE believes is his natural position next to Lively. I think that defensive combination is something they were all really excited about, right or wrong. 

Is Flagg, should they draft him, reason to rethink all of that? Maybe, actually, even for them, but I don't know if we have enough to go on there yet.

To me, all of this points to "who's coming off the bench, PJ or the kid?" I doubt either will be happy about it, and I could make a case that both would be mistakes. 

Definitely a lot of things could break that add clarity here, however, and IF they move a center, I'd FOR SURE love to think an accommodation can be made that rotates Lively/AD/Flagg and PJW in a way that works, because that defense would be bonkers.

[cow]

Given what you can get for AD, probably, I'd consider that, for sure. I don't think the Mavs will, however, so it feels like a waste to spend much energy imagining it. 

Plus, I actually think there's a world in which Flagg playing with AD to start his career does WONDERS for him, and in which the team is competitive very, very quickly. Hopefully, they find the right strings to pull in order to make that world a reality.

As help defenders, when AD is on the floor and at is best (two massive ifs), that's some devastating defense.  I'm not sure AD does much for Flagg as a mentor as that isn't his personality (no shade).  From everything I've read about Flagg and heard from a few people I trust, Flagg needs time to develop which makes all the sense in the world considering his age.  You also have to take into account the landscape of our conference and the makeup of our team.  With Kyrie's injury, next year is going to be a throw away.  Sure we could make the playoffs, but we aren't going to be a contender short of Tatum-like injuries to other teams in the conference.  Ky is 33.  AD is 32.  If you are being optimistic, that core has a 3-year window and next year erases one of those years.  That's assuming Kyrie comes back close to what he was (we all hope he does) and AD can have another mostly healthy year (we should all be doubtful on this).  The answer seems painfully obvious of what the team should do and I'd think most Mav fans would be dying to try a different approach to roster building than what we've experienced  for oh so long.  I also think there is no shot we'll go this route.

[KillerLeft]

As help defenders, when AD is on the floor and at is best (two massive ifs), that's some devastating defense.  I'm not sure AD does much for Flagg as a mentor as that isn't his personality (no shade).  From everything I've read about Flagg and heard from a few people I trust, Flagg needs time to develop which makes all the sense in the world considering his age.  You also have to take into account the landscape of our conference and the makeup of our team.  With Kyrie's injury, next year is going to be a throw away.  Sure we could make the playoffs, but we aren't going to be a contender short of Tatum-like injuries to other teams in the conference.  Ky is 33.  AD is 32.  If you are being optimistic, that core has a 3-year window and next year erases one of those years.  That's assuming Kyrie comes back close to what he was (we all hope he does) and AD can have another mostly healthy year (we should all be doubtful on this).  The answer seems painfully obvious of what the team should do and I'd think most Mav fans would be dying to try a different approach to roster building than what we've experienced  for oh so long.  I also think there is no shot we'll go this route.

I agree with a lot of this. 

I don't mean mentoring so much, just that Flagg having an opportunity to watch AD (a help defender Flagg is being compared to coming out of college) up close for a couple of years could be quite helpful in his development, possibly. 

I also think this development raises my personal level of hope that they can build a team this summer capable of being high enough in the standings for Kyrie's timetable to matter next year. I think it would require Flagg to hit the ground running a little more than you seem to expect, but the real reason is that this frees up an asset or two that I wouldn't think they'd have considered moving last week. I think more is in play for them this summer all of a sudden, trade-wise, which makes more seem possible. 

Obviously, one can take the view that "of course Harrison will screw all this up" and sure - he might! But, if he does, there will be plenty of time for doom and gloom at that point.

[F Gump]

I’d be shocked if he took a pay cut voluntarily and it’d be wishful thinking to think he’d do a 1+1 deal coming off an ACL tear at 33.

So you think my other possibility offered is the one that will happen? That was adding 2 years at about the current number (thus, NOT a change to the 2025 summer situation).

FWIW, since I wrote that, I heard Stein say he's hearing something like that, which would approx a total of 3 for 120M. That could happen with an opt in -- which doesn't change the numbers -- and then extends for 2 years at about the same number. Or he could opt out, they do some variation of that, to lower the initial number a bit and allow the team to make things work this season to keep the ship afloat until Kyrie comes back.

The Mavs want Kyrie, and wants to be here. But they BOTH have to be recognizing what's a fair number too, in the context of him missing half or more of the next season, and the fact his market is NOT going to be that strong financially if he opted to be a FA. Not that either side will push to that, but it's a factor in what's fair.

I've NEVER bought the ideas that Kyrie has them over a barrel, they have to pay him max-max, and he'll demand that. Or variations thereof. This is like a long-married couple figuring out how to make things work imo, and neither side will hold a gun to the other's head (or even consider it).

[RasheedsBigWhiteSpot]

Let's assume no other Spurs trades. Any interest in DeArronFox? I know he's now got a big contract, but if it was for PJ, Caleb and Hardy, it could clear up a log jam for them. Plus, PJ has a much more marketable contract for when they do make moves.

Considering his contract I think they'd need to at least throw in a protected swap or a couple of 2nds.

[cow]

I agree with a lot of this. 

I don't mean mentoring so much, just that Flagg having an opportunity to watch AD (a help defender Flagg is being compared to coming out of college) up close for a couple of years could be quite helpful in his development, possibly. 

I also think this development raises my personal level of hope that they can build a team this summer capable of being high enough in the standings for Kyrie's timetable to matter next year. I think it would require Flagg to hit the ground running a little more than you seem to expect, but the real reason is that this frees up an asset or two that I wouldn't think they'd have considered moving last week. I think more is in play for them this summer all of a sudden, trade-wise, which makes more seem possible. 

Obviously, one can take the view that "of course Harrison will screw all this up" and sure - he might! But, if he does, there will be plenty of time for doom and gloom at that point.

It's not about thinking Nico will screw this up or doom and gloom, it's just looking at realities and wanting to build for the future instead of investing more in a core that will age out in three years time.  We could move players and invest assets to trying and get a chip with AD/Kyrie and certainly be competitive, but I don't that's the correct road to go down.  My entire focus would be on the long term development of Cooper Flagg and the team we need to put around him and since we haven't seen him play in the NBA, that's a lot of unknowns and shortcutting the process always blew up in our face with our last star.

[KillerLeft]

It's not about thinking Nico will screw this up or doom and gloom, it's just looking at realities and wanting to build for the future instead of investing more in a core that will age out in three years time.  We could move players and invest assets to trying and get a chip with AD/Kyrie and certainly be competitive, but I don't that's the correct road to go down.  My entire focus would be on the long term development of Cooper Flagg and the team we need to put around him and since we haven't seen him play in the NBA, that's a lot of unknowns and shortcutting the process always blew up in our face with our last star.

I think a very good argument can be made for that, only they'd have to sell a LOT of talent because they don't control their own draft capital during the time you're thinking of. MAYBE you can turn like every good player they have into draft capital that matters (the majority of draft capital that moves in deals like that doesn't), but I think that would be really difficult - more difficult than we realize. 

I think that, as long as the efforts to maximize the next 2-3 window don't involve sending too much youth out for age or putting obstacles in Flagg's path to development, it might actually be EASIER to stay relevant as you develop him. If they hadn't mortgaged the entire next 5-7 years to build around Luka BEFORE deciding they didn't want to build around Luka, I'd probably be right there with you.

[Chicagojk]

Question: Jrue Holiday. Too old and/or makes too much money?


If Celtics want to clear salary and we will see what Tatum’s injury is soon.

How about a three team trade where a team with cap room gets PJ and something else. Maybe they get a future Mavs pick and/or a future Boston pick. Boston gets nothing back. Dallas gets Jrue.

Jrue
Klay
Flagg
AD
Lively

Don’t love the backcourt but a Kyrie/jrue backcourt is intriguing. Or maybe a 6th man for Jrue down the road.

[chaparral]

As help defenders, when AD is on the floor and at is best (two massive ifs), that's some devastating defense.  I'm not sure AD does much for Flagg as a mentor as that isn't his personality (no shade).  From everything I've read about Flagg and heard from a few people I trust, Flagg needs time to develop which makes all the sense in the world considering his age.  You also have to take into account the landscape of our conference and the makeup of our team.  With Kyrie's injury, next year is going to be a throw away.  Sure we could make the playoffs, but we aren't going to be a contender short of Tatum-like injuries to other teams in the conference.  Ky is 33.  AD is 32.  If you are being optimistic, that core has a 3-year window and next year erases one of those years.  That's assuming Kyrie comes back close to what he was (we all hope he does) and AD can have another mostly healthy year (we should all be doubtful on this).  The answer seems painfully obvious of what the team should do and I'd think most Mav fans would be dying to try a different approach to roster building than what we've experienced  for oh so long.  I also think there is no shot we'll go this route.

Cow, I like your thinking here.  Now lets look at team building with the goal of a new arena starting in 2031.  Flagg will be 24 in 2031.  The Mavs should roll into there new arena with a completely new team from who is on the roster today.

[KillerLeft]

Question: Jrue Holiday.  Too old and/or makes too much money?

I've had the very same thought recently. 

I like it, depending on what it would cost to get him, and it feels like a possible target.

[Smitty]

Question: Jrue Holiday.  Too old and/or makes too much money?


If Celtics want to clear salary and we will see  what Tatum’s injury is soon. 

How about a three team trade where a team with cap room gets PJ and something else.  Maybe they get a future Mavs pick and/or a future Boston pick.  Boston gets nothing back.  Dallas gets Jrue.

Jrue
Klay
Flagg
AD
Lively

Don’t love the backcourt but a Kyrie/jrue backcourt is intriguing.  Or maybe a 6th man for Jrue down the road.

Give me Derrick White instead.

[omahen]

Question: Jrue Holiday.  Too old and/or makes too much money?


If Celtics want to clear salary and we will see  what Tatum’s injury is soon. 

How about a three team trade where a team with cap room gets PJ and something else.  Maybe they get a future Mavs pick and/or a future Boston pick.  Boston gets nothing back.  Dallas gets Jrue.

Jrue
Klay
Flagg
AD
Lively

Don’t love the backcourt but a Kyrie/jrue backcourt is intriguing.  Or maybe a 6th man for Jrue down the road.

I think Boston will try to reduce their salaries this summer while bringing in similar quality guys. I think the obvious moves are shipping out JRue and KP and try to get back similar talent on much lower salaries. They have most of their draft capital to execute such trades. 

I think JRue had worse season that last one and he is not getting any younger. Still, he could be a great short term solution. But, it would take more salary than just PJ.

[KillerLeft]

Give me Derrick White instead.

Another great idea.

Give me either, tbh, whichever Boston's circumstances prompt them to make available. 

The key for me is: would the Mavs be paying fair value (the original idea was PJW - not sure I'd be into that), or would they be capitalizing off of Boston's need to jettison salary? 

In the right deal, either Holiday or White would be AMAZING adds.

[cow]

I think a very good argument can be made for that, only they'd have to sell a LOT of talent because they don't control their own draft capital during the time you're thinking of. MAYBE you can turn like every good player they have into draft capital that matters (the majority of draft capital that moves in deals like that doesn't), but I think that would be really difficult - more difficult than we realize. 

I think that, as long as the efforts to maximize the next 2-3 window don't involve sending too much youth out for age or putting obstacles in Flagg's path to development, it might actually be EASIER to stay relevant as you develop him. If they hadn't mortgaged the entire next 5-7 years to build around Luka BEFORE deciding they didn't want to build around Luka, I'd probably be right there with you.

We have a lot of talent to sell and we really shouldn't be married to any of it. I could see an argument for Lively.  Great kid, lot's of potential, but given the right offer, I'd move off him because of injury concerns.  Draft capital matters in that's how deals get done.  You can ask for swaps, you can ask the farthest out picks, and you can ask for multiple picks, you can take back bad salary and/or route good returned players elsewhere for bad salary in the matching process and strengthen your negotiating position.  Boston's FRP next year probably seemed equivalent to a SRP, but the value of that pick just improved considerably due to the unfortunate Tatum injury.  I'm not saying regenerating our asset pool would be easy, but that's why GM's make a lot of money...if only we had a real one, they could take our talent pool and and fill in the 5-7 year hole that Nico dug and in the few years it would take to accomplish that task, you'd give Flagg the time he needs to develop and understand what he needs around him to thrive.  Luka elevated Gafford and Lively, but Flagg might need a different type of center around him.  The player on our roster I'd most want to keep around at this point is PJ, but I'd still listen to offers.  Sell, baby, sell.  Sell, sell, sell!

[RasheedsBigWhiteSpot]

It's not about thinking Nico will screw this up or doom and gloom, it's just looking at realities and wanting to build for the future instead of investing more in a core that will age out in three years time.  We could move players and invest assets to trying and get a chip with AD/Kyrie and certainly be competitive, but I don't that's the correct road to go down.  My entire focus would be on the long term development of Cooper Flagg and the team we need to put around him and since we haven't seen him play in the NBA, that's a lot of unknowns and shortcutting the process always blew up in our face with our last star.

I agree 1000% on taking a step back and building for the future around Flagg. Playing for just the next two years, even if it did lead to a championship, would be unsatisfying if it led to a long rebuild with no assets. 

I would love an AD for Paul George + #3,  and a couple of future unprotected 1sts (either Philly's or LAC's)

A S/T for Kyrie getting back short-term contracts + picks or young assets. 

And be open to trading other pieces as well. 

I'd look to create a framework around Flagg, Edgecomb (unless you can get the Spirs to swap spots for Harper) and Lively, and go into next off-season with moveable contracts and some valuable picks to deal for an ideal player that fits Flagg and your young core. I could see Dumont being down for that with a mid-20s team ready to compete for a championship as it moves to a new arena.

[cow]

I would love an AD for Paul George + #3,  and a couple of future unprotected 1sts (either Philly's or LAC's)

You and are I on the same wavelength as I was just thinking this.