Trade & FA 2024-25:

[mvossman]

Now shooting 29% from three.  We already have a glue guy in PJ.

It was suggested that with the Luka trade Naji will make more sense than DJJ here because he provides some playmaking, but with Lively, Gafford and AD getting big minutes (assuming we ever get healthy) I would argue shooting is even more important.

[SleepingHero]

It was suggested that with the Luka trade Naji will make more sense than DJJ here because he provides some playmaking, but with Lively, Gafford and AD getting big minutes (assuming we ever get healthy) I would argue shooting is even more important.

Exactly my thoughts. I mean we are already hemorrhaging offensive creation/spacing. Having 3 non-shooters out there at any given point just makes no sense to me, even if Naji can alleviate a bit of the creation task. 

He made a lot of sense when Luka was here. Now? I'm genuinely confused why he wasn't moved on the TDL.

[KillerLeft]

It was suggested that with the Luka trade Naji will make more sense than DJJ here because he provides some playmaking, but with Lively, Gafford and AD getting big minutes (assuming we ever get healthy) I would argue shooting is even more important.

This might be valid, but I also think the point you're referring to about Marshall's playmaking has validity, too. Tough to know which is needed more without seeing how they plan to play offense for a game or ten.

[myconsumerclub]

Obviously they started to let Hardy play again so the size needs shooting to complement bigs at the rim theory may be correct. That we just added Kai Jones should be a sign they are not in on tanking and are starting to prioritize size more.

We got shooting with Klay Kai Christie Exum and that is 4 guys and of course Hardy shot the three well tonight.

If Caleb comes in and starts shooting 3 pointers well he will be in that discussion as well to give us 6 dead eye shots. Now we just need to encourage Lively to hit more threes to have a five out team when AD and him play again.

[SleepingHero]

https://streamable.com/8fmwgz

Yahoo Sports
(@YahooSports)
The Phoenix Suns may move from superstar Kevin Durant this offseason if the team doesn't improve to end the season, per @ShamsCharania.

If it comes to that, the Suns and Durant would "work together" on trading him to a title contender of his choosing.

[audiosway]

https://streamable.com/8fmwgz

Yahoo Sports
(@YahooSports)
The Phoenix Suns may move from superstar Kevin Durant this offseason if the team doesn't improve to end the season, per @ShamsCharania.

If it comes to that, the Suns and Durant would "work together" on trading him to a title contender of his choosing.

I'd be good with him if it doesn't cost too much. I wouldn't move PJ, Lively, or Christie though. I'm still not entirely sure about KD but I wouldn't fight it unless it was too expensive being that he'll be 37 next season.

[SleepingHero]

I'd be good with him if it doesn't cost too much. I wouldn't move PJ, Lively, or Christie though. I'm still not entirely sure about KD but I wouldn't fight it unless it was too expensive being that he'll be 37 next season.

The "work together" part makes me think that the Suns know they are cooked and are fine sending Durant to the place of his choosing, even if that means the package is not as good. 

So if for example Durant is truly deadset on the Mavs, and there are no other suitors, perhaps they can get away with keeping all of those guys and really just send the Suns some salary matching and a 1st or two.

[The Jom]

The "work together" part makes me think that the Suns know they are cooked and are fine sending Durant to the place of his choosing, even if that means the package is not as good. 

So if for example Durant is truly deadset on the Mavs, and there are no other suitors, perhaps they can get away with keeping all of those guys and really just send the Suns some salary matching and a 1st or two.

And chicks for free

[audiosway]

The "work together" part makes me think that the Suns know they are cooked and are fine sending Durant to the place of his choosing, even if that means the package is not as good. 

So if for example Durant is truly deadset on the Mavs, and there are no other suitors, perhaps they can get away with keeping all of those guys and really just send the Suns some salary matching and a 1st or two.

That's what I'm hoping. That is definitely what it sounds like. If they can send Hardy and some other salary matching with a pick or two I would be fine.

[SleepingHero]

That's what I'm hoping. That is definitely what it sounds like. If they can send Hardy and some other salary matching with a pick or two I would be fine.

FGump and Smitty have already done a lot of the legwork for a potential Durant trade and really it'd take:

Gafford+Klay+Martin+Naji+Hardy. That gets you right to 54.4 mil. Durant is right at 54. PHX can't take back more salary, so the Mavs would probably have to do OMax+Powell instead of Naji or Martin. That gets you to roughly ~52 mil. 

Now if Kyrie takes a deal just enough to keep the Mavs under the 2nd apron, then I believe this would be a legal deal. A lot to give up, but KD is still KD.

[F Gump]

FGump and Smitty have already done a lot of the legwork for a potential Durant trade and really it'd take:

Gafford+Klay+Martin+Naji+Hardy. That gets you right to 54.4 mil. Durant is right at 54. PHX can't take back more salary, so the Mavs would probably have to do OMax+Powell instead of Naji or Martin. That gets you to roughly ~52 mil. 

Now if Kyrie takes a deal just enough to keep the Mavs under the 2nd apron, then I believe this would be a legal deal. A lot to give up, but KD is still KD.

A big part of a KD trade match is not only matching KD's massive $55M salary with a lot of much smaller contracts, but also cleaning out enough payroll room to re-fill the roster with minimum salary players and still stay under the Apron 2 hard cap. So finding players who add up to 55M isn't good enough - you have to be sending out much more than that, with some of it going to a 3rd team. That's part of the challenge, because if the 3rd team is getting junk, they'll want picks too. That's a killer.

My working solution is that part of the resulting trade process will be that the 3rd Team will be a contender team who will take someone like Klay or Gaff without sending back salary, and who should even give the Mavs a pick for the value they are getting (assuming ~ahem~ the Mavs FO can negotiate to make that happen, which makes me cringe to even say, but seems very doable if there's just a modicum of competence).

So the bottom line is that the outbound will have to include almost EVERYONE besides Kyrie, AD, and assuming Lively and Christie are not on the table either. There is probably room for 1 other player who won't have to be included, and I prefer keeping PJ over others. But EVERYONE ELSE.

[omahen]

A big part of a KD trade match is not only matching KD's massive $55M salary with a lot of much smaller contracts, but also cleaning out enough payroll room to re-fill the roster with minimum salary players and still stay under the Apron 2 hard cap. So finding players who add up to 55M isn't good enough - you have to be sending out much more than that, with some of it going to a 3rd team. That's part of the challenge, because if the 3rd team is getting junk, they'll want picks too. That's a killer.

My working solution is that part of the resulting trade process will be that the 3rd Team will be a contender team who will take someone like Klay or Gaff without sending back salary, and who should even give the Mavs a pick for the value they are getting (assuming ~ahem~ the Mavs FO can negotiate to make that happen, which makes me cringe to even say, but seems very doable if there's just a modicum of competence).

So the bottom line is that the outbound will have to include almost EVERYONE besides Kyrie, AD, and assuming Lively and Christie are not on the table either. There is probably room for 1 other player who won't have to be included, and I prefer keeping PJ over others. But EVERYONE ELSE.

My guess for the trade would be, that PJ will be included in the deal. There will not be many minutes left for PJ with Davis at four and KD at three and he would certainly lose his starting job. Not something very desirable in his contract year. 

Phoenix angle will be interesting. They don't have control of any of their picks. If tank would be considered, Houston would be their more natural trade partner, as they control their 2025, 2027 and 2029 picks, if I can understand that "1000 times" traded Phoenix picks and swaps correctly. I honestly can't understand who gets Phoenix 2026 pick if they suck in the next season. But, going full tank would also need to include trading Booker. 

However, the owner doesn't look like one patient enough for several tanking seasons. So the alternative would be to try to stay competitive. PJ, Klay and Gafford (although I wouldn't be surprised if they get Lively instead) all help in that regard. PJ substitutes KD in the starting line-up and Klay or Beal play the 6th man. They have several other decent vets like the other Martin, Allen and O'Neale. Who knows, perhaps they might actually function as a good unit, something no coach was able to do with their big three. They still have two bad picks from that 2031 pick split trade they made. Combined with more draft assets, they could still reshuffle the team some more (PG will be their biggest need).

[FireNicoHarrison]

The "work together" part makes me think that the Suns know they are cooked and are fine sending Durant to the place of his choosing, even if that means the package is not as good. 

So if for example Durant is truly deadset on the Mavs, and there are no other suitors, perhaps they can get away with keeping all of those guys and really just send the Suns some salary matching and a 1st or two.

Please stick to discussing the topic to which you're responding - no need to make EVERY post go back to how much you hate Nico Harrison. There's an entire thread for that.

-KL

[ACMFFL]

I think Klay/PJ/Gaff/1FRP is fair value for an expiring soon to be 37 years KD.
I doubt anyone is willing to beat that offer.

[omahen]

I think Klay/PJ/Gaff/1FRP is fair value for an expiring soon to be 37 years KD.
I doubt anyone is willing to beat that offer.

it is true that KD has a lot of leverage in this one. It would be one thing if salary coming to them would be bad salary limiting their flexibility. But those the three players mentioned are not that. Two of them will be expiring. I would expect though, that more will be given from Mavs side.

[FireNicoHarrison]

If Silver will not force Phoenix to trade KD to the Mavs i don't see them give him for that bad package...

[ACMFFL]

Imo KD has just a bit more value than Jimmy had last TDL.

[SleepingHero]

It's less about the Suns doing a favor for the Mavs, and more like KD is one of the few players in the NBA with the leverage to choose where he wants to play. If KD says " I want DAL" then no other team is going to make an offer for him. And sure the Suns can say "we don't care, we will send you wherever we want" but then you run the risk of losing out on any other future deal KD's agent will create with his other star players. Relationships matter in the NBA. Its the reason why the Lakers got Luka. 

And you can debate whether or not KD+AD is worth Luka, but the talent is there. Kyrie+KD+AD is a fearsome trio. When Kyrie+KD+Harden played in Brooklyn, they were one of the best teams in the league. But Kyrie refused to bend on the vaccine issue, KD was recovering from his achilles tear, and Harden had his hamstring issue. 

Will those injury concerns follow them? Most likely. But I'd rather they go for it than take a half measure. Worst comes to worse the tank process will be accelerated after all is said and done.

[SleepingHero]

it is true that KD has a lot of leverage in this one. It would be one thing if salary coming to them would be bad salary limiting their flexibility. But those the three players mentioned are not that. Two of them will be expiring. I would expect though, that more will be given from Mavs side.

I like ACMFFL's compairson to Jimmy Butler this last TDL. Butler forced his way out, demanded a trade to a contender that will give him an extension, and did everything he could to make it happen. 

KD is obviously done with PHX now. He took offense to be included in trade talks this last TDL, he has clashed with Budenholzer, and PHX as a whole are sinking. Now Shams reports "If PHX doesn't get their act together, KD and the team will work together to find him a trade to a place of his choosing"

That to me has already signaled that KD is out of there, and both of them are just biding their time till the end of the season where they can amicably move on. 

And in the case of Jimmy, he went for Wiggins+Anderson+Mitchell+protected late FRP this year. Wiggins is a solid player that's overpaid and has reliability issues mentally. Anderson was salary filler and end of bench player. Davion Mitchell is a young prospect that hasn't really amounted to much.

Already a Mavs package of Gaff+PJ+Klay is 10x better than that package. But that makes sense given that KD is a better player than Butler.

[FireNicoHarrison]

What makes you think that what didn't work 5 years ago can work today with older and more injury prone players?

Adding the terrible failure of the Suns.

If it's your hope then ok. I can understand.
But rationally it's madness.