Trade & FA 2024-25:

[SleepingHero]

You don't think Hardy would have some value?  Maybe they get better S&T offers, and maybe Jones gets better contract offers, but Hardy would have to be better than nothing.

I think Hardy would absolutely have some value. He'd be all the value in the deal. But the Wizards are eating Powell's contract, on top of having to pay Hardy next year. 

Maybe he's enough to get Tyus Jones in a SnT but is Tyus Jones worth all of that?

[SleepingHero]

Brett Siegel (@BrettSiegelNBA)
A multi-team trade in which the Warriors would deal Andrew Wiggins to acquire more draft assets for Utah in a Markkanen trade is a possibility, sources said.

Moses Moody, pick swaps, and expiring contracts of Kevon Looney and Gary Payton II are other assets the Warriors have.

[KillerLeft]

Brett Siegel (@BrettSiegelNBA)
A multi-team trade in which the Warriors would deal Andrew Wiggins to acquire more draft assets for Utah in a Markkanen trade is a possibility, sources said.

Moses Moody, pick swaps, and expiring contracts of Kevon Looney and Gary Payton II are other assets the Warriors have.

GS will "acquire draft assets for Wiggins" when I marry Sydney Sweeney.

[mvossman]

I think Hardy would absolutely have some value. He'd be all the value in the deal. But the Wizards are eating Powell's contract, on top of having to pay Hardy next year. 

Maybe he's enough to get Tyus Jones in a SnT but is Tyus Jones worth all of that?

I guess it depends on how you feel about Hardy, but my initial reaction is yes.  A high quality 6th man who could take some pressure off Luka/Kyrie, especially when one is out.  He just turned 28 and 9 mil would be very reasonable contract.  I don't think there is much chance this happens, but I would be willing to pull that trigger and probably throw in our last 2nd if necessary.

[KillerLeft]

I'm low-key worried they're about to trade Hardy, but in the event they don't, I want to go on record now that I think Hardy is about to have a breakout year. He's got so much talent and so much courage. I think he IS a 6th man of the year type (top 10 in that category?) as long as he gets a shot at that role, consistently. Frankly, he's one of the things I'm most excited about in terms of this year's team potentially being better than last year's.

This is weird, because in this community I'm historically the one trying to stick up for the coach who's not playing some young guy everyone loves, but in this case I feel like I'm one of the only people around who still believes in the kid. I think that if he gets minutes the Mavs might wish they had extended this summer. I don't think we'll be worried about 6th man OR backup point guard by the end of November. I could obviously be wrong.

The only thing I don't love about him in that role is that I don't think he's ideally suited to play WITH Kyrie while Luka sits, but...with Luka? with Exum? with Grimes? Check, check and check.

[Chicagojk]

I'm low-key worried they're about to trade Hardy, but in the event they don't, I want to go on record now that I think Hardy is about to have a breakout year. He's got so much talent and so much courage. I think he IS a 6th man of the year type (top 10 in that category?) as long as he gets a shot at that role, consistently. Frankly, he's one of the things I'm most excited about in terms of this year's team potentially being better than last year's.

This is weird, because in this community I'm historically the one trying to stick up for the coach who's not playing some young guy everyone loves, but in this case I feel like I'm one of the only people around who still believes in the kid. I think that if he gets minutes the Mavs might wish they had extended this summer. I don't think we'll be worried about 6th man OR backup point guard by the end of November. I could obviously be wrong.

The only thing I don't love about him in that role is that I don't think he's ideally suited to play WITH Kyrie while Luka sits, but...with Luka? with Exum? with Grimes? Check, check and check.

One of the real cool things about this trade is we have several young to mid 20's guys who will be fighting for real minutes for a real good team.    Heck, even Klay has something to prove, but guys like Jaden, Omax, Grimes and possibly Marshall can earn real important minutes (and an extension for a few of them).   It is exciting.  In a perfect world, all excel.  

 I think there is only room for two of Omax, Jaden and Grimes....I think.  Especially if Omax is looking like a wing who guards 1 to 3's.   Jaden got finals minutes this season, and it was trending that he was going to be a rotation player and maybe have a year 3 jump.  He will need to earn those minutes now.   Omax is fighting for a chance, but has the skills/measurables/personality this team is looking for.  Grimes looked like a real good developing role player a few years ago but now needs to show it fast to get a nice pay day.   It should be exciting.    For a real good team, we have a lot of guys with upside that will be fighting for minutes.

[KillerLeft]

One of the real cool things about this trade is we have several young to mid 20's guys who will be fighting for real minutes for a real good team.    Heck, even Klay has something to prove, but guys like Jaden, Omax, Grimes and possibly Marshall can earn real important minutes (and an extension for a few of them).   It is exciting.  In a perfect world, all excel.  

 I think there is only room for two of Omax, Jaden and Grimes....I think.  Especially if Omax is looking like a wing who guards 1 to 3's.   Jaden got finals minutes this season, and it was trending that he was going to be a rotation player and maybe have a year 3 jump.  He will need to earn those minutes now.   Omax is fighting for a chance, but has the skills/measurables/personality this team is looking for.  Grimes looked like a real good developing role player a few years ago but now needs to show it fast to get a nice pay day.   It should be exciting.    For a real good team, we have a lot of guys with upside that will be fighting for minutes.

I agree, overall, and you're probably right that having all three of them breakout, this year or even ever, might be too much to hope for. 

Just a little pushback on the emboldened, however: I think guarding 4's is possibly the most natural thing for O-Max. I don't think people here really get how long the dude is. I believe we're hearing about him guarding 1s and 2s because the coaching staff wants to see whether he can do that, but if so, I'd say he'd be one of the few who can actually guard 1-5. So, theoretically, there's meat on the bone for all three of them, in a way.

[Winter]

My thing about Hardy is that he may just be too one dimensional for the Mavs. He did get better late last season, but I would almost think it would be better for him to be with another team where he will get more minutes. I just don't think he will get the minutes here especially since acquiring the new players.

[F Gump]

I'm low-key worried they're about to trade Hardy, but ....

Is this about the desire for Ty Jones?

If so, I don't get it.

None of these ideas (unless I overlooked something) makes much of a difference in having the payroll to sign someone like T Jones.

If you give away Hardy, for example, you actually have LESS salary possible for Jones, since Hardy makes 2.0M but a minimum costs 2.1M. Powell only gives you an extra $1.9M in spending room. Exum nets about 1M. It's all nickels and dimes, unless you are trading (to WAS) someone who is making about what Tyus will be paid.

What I was hearing was that Mavs would like a guard making minimum salary. I'd love to have a 3rd string PG like him, but can't see him having interest, much less money to pay him

[Smitty]

I think Hardy would absolutely have some value.

I kinda wonder if they don’t trade Hardy at some point to restock the SRP cupboard… we’ve seen how those can be valuable to get things to the finish line and they’re down to 1 total (next year). With who his agent is, it wouldn’t surprise me.

[KillerLeft]

Is this about the desire for Ty Jones?

If so, I don't get it. 

No, it's based on the idea that they're even looking at other guards. 

I just can't imagine having Hardy here for another year, headed towards RFA, and NOT playing him. If I'm running that team, I either give the kid from now until the trade deadline to grab a toehold in the rotation, or get whatever value I can for him NOW, affording the acquiring team who (in theory) is excited about giving him a look the chance to negotiate. 

It's not about procedural logistics at all - I'm well aware that his current salary isn't in the way. I'm thinking of his next contract.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

I'm low-key worried they're about to trade Hardy, but in the event they don't, I want to go on record now that I think Hardy is about to have a breakout year. He's got so much talent and so much courage. I think he IS a 6th man of the year type (top 10 in that category?) as long as he gets a shot at that role, consistently. Frankly, he's one of the things I'm most excited about in terms of this year's team potentially being better than last year's.

This is weird, because in this community I'm historically the one trying to stick up for the coach who's not playing some young guy everyone loves, but in this case I feel like I'm one of the only people around who still believes in the kid. I think that if he gets minutes the Mavs might wish they had extended this summer. I don't think we'll be worried about 6th man OR backup point guard by the end of November. I could obviously be wrong.

The only thing I don't love about him in that role is that I don't think he's ideally suited to play WITH Kyrie while Luka sits, but...with Luka? with Exum? with Grimes? Check, check and check.

You’re not alone in this. I just made a couple of posts the other day saying it’s a no-brainer to extend him at Max Christie $ (not sure Klutch would want this?) I think Hardy has “prototypical 6th man scoring guard” written all over him. Very encouraged by his growth in play making and defense in the playoffs. 

I’m also a big Omax believer and would only deal him for a near star to star. I would include him, and all other available assets for that matter, for a shot at Sydney Sweeney.

[KillerLeft]

I kinda wonder if they don’t trade Hardy at some point to restock the SRP cupboard… we’ve seen how those can be valuable to get things to the finish line and they’re down to 1 total (next year). With who his agent is, it wouldn’t surprise me.

This. It's time to declare intentions with him, imo. I don't think you get years and years to develop players anymore. Once they get on that second contract, they had better not be on your team unless you want to PLAY them. 

If you give him the keys to the bench unit, it's not like you can't take them away later, but I'd want to know how that looks before doing anything if I were in their shoes. 

And, if they've seen enough already to know they don't like it (possible, given the board's temperature on him), I'd absolutely want to turn him into a 2nd round pick, use him as throw-in for something, whatever...soon.

[Luka77]

Wow, that’s not how I remember it at all. From what I recall, most were adamantly against Ayton, and rightfully so. SleepingHero was into it, and I feel like maybe Dan was, too.

Please see my thread titled "Win now" mistakes and check out the date.

I was on not trading the pick before probably anyone on this board.

[Smitty]

This. It's time to declare intentions with him, imo. I don't think you get years and years to develop players anymore. Once they get on that second contract, they had better not be on your team unless you want to PLAY them. 

If you give him the keys to the bench unit, it's not like you can't take them away later, but I'd want to know how that looks before doing anything if I were in their shoes. 

And, if they've seen enough already to know they don't like it (possible, given the board's temperature on him), I'd absolutely want to turn him into a 2nd round pick, use him as throw-in for something, whatever...soon.

I’ve probably been harshest on Hardy. The biggest eye opener for me was Summer League last year when they tried to make him a point guard and it went miserably. They clearly WANT him to be a combo guard but to me it’s like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. I have no idea if they think the same. 

To me he’s Tim Hardaway Jr. lite. Check this out:

Per 36

Player A
73 GP , 19.3 PPG , 4.8 RBS , 4.0 AST, 2.3 TOV , 40.7 FG% , 36.2 3PT% , 77.6 FT% , DEFRTG 114.5

Player B
79 GP , 19.3 PPG , 4.3 RBS , 2.4 AST, 1.2 TOV , 40.2 FG% , 35.3 3PT% , 85.2 FT% , DEFRTG 113.4


Player A is Jaden Hardy and Player B is Tim Hardaway Jr.


His pending contract situation and Agent, combined with the news of looking for backcourt help just lead me to the conclusion that they want to move him and/or they aren’t high on Exum. Hardy did show signs of life late in the playoffs but so did Exum in his limited run. 

Getting a SRP for either, if they can, makes some sense… and with Hardy’s supposed upside he’s the one that might net you 1 or 2. Who knows??

[KillerLeft]

Please see my thread titled "Win now" mistakes and check out the date.

I was on not trading the pick before probably anyone on this board.

Haha, that thread has features two other people's thoughts. I'm not sure what you're driving at by digging that up. I wasn't questioning your recollection of your own take, I just don't remember folks being sold on Ayton as a solution to anything (outside of a handful). 

I never, ever, ever, never-ever, not ever was in favor of making DeAndre Ayton a Maverick. I don't remember it being a very popular idea, but maybe I'm wrong. Either way, I'm not very worried about it, I'll just continue to feel blessed he's not here!

[KillerLeft]

I’ve been harsh on Hardy. The biggest eye opener for me was Summer League last year when they tried to make him a point guard and it went miserably. They clearly WANT him to be a combo guard but to me it’s like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. I have no idea if they think the same. 

Summer league goes miserably for everyone on the offensive end, because everyone on the court is constantly desperate to prove they belong in the NBA. That manifests itself, unfortunately, in the opposite of what would probably get teams' attention: a group of guys who know how to play connected, team ball. 

I have never seen any evidence that he can't play PG, at least not in the way the Mavericks mean when they use that term. Use a high screen, penetrate off the dribble with the idea of scoring and kick to the open man if the paint is congested, OR use something out of your mid-range bag. Hardy has made tremendous progress in all of those areas. Heck, I think he might be a more willing passer than Kyrie, tbh. ALL "point guards" are "combo guards" now, especially on teams like Dallas. 

If you're right and he's only going to be a play finisher, then that's just another way of saying he won't make it in the NBA, because guards his size who are only shooters and not also defenders really aren't in demand anymore. If Hardy is to be anything, he needs the BALL. That's everything to his game. To me, the guy with the ball on offense is the point guard.

[Luka77]

Haha, that thread has features two other people's thoughts. I'm not sure what you're driving at by digging that up. I wasn't questioning your recollection of your own take, I just don't remember folks being sold on Ayton as a solution to anything (outside of a handful). 

I never, ever, ever, never-ever, not ever was in favor of making DeAndre Ayton a Maverick. I don't remember it being a very popular idea, but maybe I'm wrong. Either way, I'm not very worried about it, I'll just continue to feel blessed he's not here!

It wasn't just Ayton.  People were posting about trading the pick for Capella, Allen, Claxton, ect.

I don't know many that were for keeping the pick like I was.

[Smitty]

Summer league goes miserably for everyone on the offensive end, because everyone on the court is constantly desperate to prove they belong in the NBA. That manifests itself, unfortunately, in the opposite of what would probably get teams' attention: a group of guys who know how to play connected, team ball. 

I have never seen any evidence that he can't play PG, at least not in the way the Mavericks mean when they use that term. Use a high screen, penetrate off the dribble with the idea of scoring and kick to the open man if the paint is congested, OR use something out of your mid-range bag. Hardy has made tremendous progress in all of those areas. Heck, I think he might be a more willing passer than Kyrie, tbh. ALL "point guards" are "combo guards" now, especially on teams like Dallas. 

If you're right and he's only going to be a play finisher, then that's just another way of saying he won't make it in the NBA, because guards his size who are only shooters and not also defenders really aren't in demand anymore. If Hardy is to be anything, he needs the BALL. That's everything to his game. To me, the guy with the ball on offense is the point guard.

I feel like we’ve had this conversation before. I could be wrong. We just see a different player. I’ve never once thought he was someone capable of running an offense. He’s an off-ball player. CnS guy 100% and a poor shooter at that. I feel like every team has a Jaden Hardy and ours just isn’t that good. I hate being negative about any Mavs players so I’ll leave this one be. I would love nothing more than to be wrong and him have a breakout year!

[KillerLeft]

It wasn't just Ayton.  People were posting about trading the pick for Capella, Allen, Claxton, ect.

I don't know many that were for keeping the pick like I was.

Ohhhhhhh, I get it now. You're trying to dust off the old "don't trade picks - draft players with them" argument. That's not interesting to me because we've been arguing about it for years and decades, at this point. The truth is that there is no right answer. If you make a GOOD trade, it's worth it, but doing too much of that can put you in a bad spot. For example, I wouldn't have traded a first (the pick sent from OKC wasn't great, but the pick swap Dallas gave up to get them to do that might be) for Gafford, especially knowing that he's probably not going to be worth a first if/when they trade him away. And, I said so. I made similar arguments when the Kyrie trade happened, and boy was I wrong. The idea that there's a right or wrong way to do that every time is the enemy, which is why that argument is so pointless. In truth, it's a case by case thing subject to the constantly evolving situation of your team. 

But, your indignation makes more sense now, I suppose. There were a ton of people probably trying to figure out how to make use of that pick in a trade, but you have to understand that it wasn't by preference for many of them - we've just always assumed the Mavs were going to trade their pick. That's what Dallas had always done under Donnie/Cuban. Crazy that we're already used to Nico valuing the draft enough not to be phased by the choice to trade UP for Ajinca. 

I thought your post was about Ayton, specifically. That's a conversation I'll have all day. He's just the WORST.