Trade & FA 2024-25:

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

^ The whole Wes Mathews we’ll just give you whatever money we had left over if DAJ doesn’t sign saga.

Followed by Delon Wright was literally our first call in free agency saga.

Makes me angry even now.

[Deebo]

Issue is his much does Klay want. Rather not trade both maxi and green. Also don’t want give him more than 2-3 year deal.

[ThisIStheYear]

Yikes, Don't you people sleep.  It takes a while to catch up since I went to bed.


Probably the best news I've seen is the latest from Stein where he talks about keeping DJJ OR going after Naji Marshall.  Marshall is roughly equivalent to Jones Jr. and is probably expecting that same $8-$12 million payday in free agency.  That means they are trying to get Thompson and preserve some or all of the NT MLE.  Both of those items (S&T and use of more than $5.2mm exception) hard cap you, so we know what the spending limit is.  What we don't know is how the money gets divided between Thompson and whichever MLE guy we get.

I personally don't see Thompson taking the full NT MLE to come here (plus, he can't take it and us keep DJJ for that same exception).  So, the Thompson part has to be a S&T.  We have to move Green.  It can be to GSW or to anyone with space, a TPE or the NT MLE.  As I've long pointed out, his contract fits into that slot (probably by design).  

We've got about $26.5mm to divide between the two players.  If it is a trade match with Green, Klay can get up to $20mm (but that doesn't leave much for DJJ/Marshall).  It doesn't have to be $20mm...it can be anything up to that.  I think more likely we send Green somewhere else for a couple of second rounders (and give one of them to GSW).  That puts Thompson into the THJ trade exception at $16.2mm and leaves about $10.5mm for DJJ/Marshall.  A $16.2mm starting salary is a $10mm advantage over three years compared to taking the MLE from someone else.  Also, GSW now has a nice sized TPE for use in retooling their roster.

I'm going to prick FG here gently.  I posted this exact 16.2/10.5 scenario twice yesterday pointing out that Maxi is retained if we do it this way.  The first time he pointed out that he didn't see a way to keep Maxi if we got Thompson and kept DJJ.  Later I posted it again in response to a question from Scott and FG pointed out that it was unlikely Thompson would take that amount.  I had to chuckle a bit this morning when I saw on page 92 that that exact scenario is now his dream scenario as it prioritizes contracts well.  If it works out this way, it is another bit of strong GMing.  This is what I meant about the brilliance of the Hardaway trade.  I like Grimes, but the fact he fits into one of our TPE's could be really important because it creates a full $16.2mm TPE for THJ rather than netting Grimes salary against THJ's salary.

I’d rather the Mavs kept DJJ and dumped Green for Marshall in a scenario like this. Acquiring Klay, who’s washed up and is only going to decline physically, can’t defend a lick, and will be a malcontent if he’s not starting will be a disaster for the Mavs. The Warriors aren’t dumb. They know Klay is basically just a shooter now. I hope the Mavs fail in this endeavor. Luka, Klay, and Kyrie is the same starting lineup or in the same lineup at all is just insane.

[SleepingHero]

@NBA_University
Top 30 Impact Defenders ‘23-‘24 via D-EPM:

Isaac
Hartenstein
Caruso
Embiid
Wembamyama
Tillman
Mobley
Dennis Smith Jr.
Bam
OG
NAW
Suggs
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Amen
Strus
Gobert
SGA
Wade
Draymond
Camara
Watson
Kawhi
Goga
AG
Herb
Nurkic
Franz
D. White
Jaden McDaniels
J-Dub

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Just like Harden, absolutely no Demar Derozan rumors yet.

I guess both those guys have to see what Paul George does first.

[SamStetz]

https://x.com/TheSteinLine/status/1807418855788044369


Thanks
@MavsFilmRoom
! You are correct. Precise path to a Thompson deal, as story says, not yet known. Warriors would prefer sign-and-trade to avoid losing him without compensation. Even exact size of Mavs' TPE from Hardaway trade not yet known because that deal not yet official.

[SleepingHero]

https://x.com/TheSteinLine/status/1807418855788044369


Thanks
@MavsFilmRoom
! You are correct. Precise path to a Thompson deal, as story says, not yet known. Warriors would prefer sign-and-trade to avoid losing him without compensation. Even exact size of Mavs' TPE from Hardaway trade not yet known because that deal not yet official.

Oh interesting....

Could Detroit accept Josh Green as part of the THJ trade to increase the Mavs TPE to around 28.5 mil? Klay could start at around 23 mil and the Mavs would still have enough for the full MLE and a vet min.

Hmmmmmm

[BigDirk41]

Oh interesting....

Could Detroit accept Josh Green as part of the THJ trade to increase the Mavs TPE to around 28.5 mil? Klay could start at around 23 mil and the Mavs would still have enough for the full MLE and a vet min.

Hmmmmmm

I'm in the wanting Klay group, but I'll be sick if it starts at 23. I'm hoping for 20 per year or hopefully even less

[Tyler]

Oh interesting....

Could Detroit accept Josh Green as part of the THJ trade to increase the Mavs TPE to around 28.5 mil? Klay could start at around 23 mil and the Mavs would still have enough for the full MLE and a vet min.

Hmmmmmm

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe TPEs can be additively combined like that. They're limited to the value of the contracts being traded. So if we trade both THJ and Green to Detroit, I believe we'd have two smaller TPEs rather than one mega TPE. And if we're using a TPE to acquire Klay, he would need to fit into either one or the other.

[DallasMaverick]

How much of that is Nico's fault or Cuban's fault? Because his first summer was a textbook Cuban summer. 

Cuban basically relinquished control after the Kyrie trade since he was working on a sale that was finalized in December. Is it such a coincidence that as soon Cuban wasn't involved in FA/Draft that the Mavs had a great summer?

There’s often a problem differentiating between causation and correlation.

[SleepingHero]

I'm in the wanting Klay group, but I'll be sick if it starts at 23. I'm hoping for 20 per year or hopefully even less

Yeah I'm not thrilled at that number either. 21mil was my top top end for Klay because I just wasn't convinced he'd take anything less than that. 


I'm still not convinced that Klay will take anything less than 20mil. The one saving grace that asset wise, a 20 mil contract is incredibly useful for trades later to pair for a big difference maker.

[Mavs2021]

Issue is his much does Klay want.  Rather not trade both maxi and green.  Also don’t want give him more than 2-3 year deal.

It´s not even a primarily money issue imho, which should raise even more red flags. Money can be fixed at the last minute with an intervention from Steph for example. This is clearly a situation where GS figured out they are a better team with Podziemski or Kuminga (or both) starting and told Klay that he won´t be a starter next year. He clearly does not want to accept that reality and feels disrespected. 

So what do you think will happen in Dallas? He´ll start at SF. He will replace DJJ in the starting five. If he´s not willing to sacrifice money or role in GS, why would he do it here?

So after bitching and moaning about how Sexton or Simons would not accept a 6th man role, are too expensive, don´t play defense and can´t play with Luka/Kyrie, we have now arrived at a situation where some of those same people cheer for us to sign Thompson. He won´t accept a 6th man role, doesn´t play defense, is just as expensive, but unlike (Simons/Sexton) does have no play-making ability to relief Luka or Kyrie and no upside/only downside.

Hey at least he has not won four rings and his ring chasing motivation will be very high.

[SleepingHero]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe TPEs can be additively combined like that. They're limited to the value of the contracts being traded. So if we trade both THJ and Green to Detroit, I believe we'd have two smaller TPEs rather than one mega TPE. And if we're using a TPE to acquire Klay, he would need to fit into either one or the other.

I understood it as the THJ deal having not been finalized, the Mavs could send Green to DET and the final trade is THJ+Green out, Grimes into BAE exception=28.4 mil TPE cause that is the net trade. If they did 2 smaller trades then I think they will end up with 2 separate TPE's

[Mavs2021]

I’d rather the Mavs kept DJJ and dumped Green for Marshall in a scenario like this. Acquiring Klay, who’s washed up and is only going to decline physically, can’t defend a lick, and will be a malcontent if he’s not starting will be a disaster for the Mavs. The Warriors aren’t dumb. They know Klay is basically just a shooter now. I hope the Mavs fail in this endeavor. Luka, Klay, and Kyrie is the same starting lineup or in the same lineup at all is just insane.

It´s so obvious. I can´t believe people can´t see it. This has Cuban (or/and Kidd) back to advisory role written all over it. It´s Javale Mcgee, Wes Matthews, DAJ, Satnam Singh levels of stupid. It seems Lindsey was the wall and filter between Nico and a lot of dumb ideas. Now he´s gone Nico is getting pressured by the same ghosts of the past and Dumont clearly lacks the knowledge to run interference.

[Tyler]

I understood it as the THJ deal having not been finalized, the Mavs could send Green to DET and the final trade is THJ+Green out, Grimes into BAE exception=28.4 mil TPE cause that is the net trade. If they did 2 smaller trades then I think they will end up with 2 separate TPE's

I think the comment about the THJ trade not being finalized is more about clarity on the structure. Whether Dallas fits Grimes into a TPE here or simply into THJ's space affects the size of the TPE Dallas receives.

[SleepingHero]

It´s not even a primarily money issue imho, which should raise even more red flags. Money can be fixed at the last minute with an intervention from Steph for example. This is clearly a situation where GS figured out they are a better team with Podziemski or Kuminga (or both) starting and told Klay that he won´t be a starter next year. He clearly does not want to accept that reality and feels disrespected. 

I think this is apart of it. 

But I think the main reason Klay is done with GSW started last year when they refused to offer him a proper extension. Especially having given Green a 4 year 100 mil deal that year. 

Instead of just taking care of Klay, the Warriors FO played hardball with him. Then going into the off-season, again instead of making Klay a priority, they focus on big fish chasing. That for me was where they truly lost Klay. GSW's last chance to make Klay feel like he was a big part of the team and they blew it.

On top of a probable diminished role with Podz/Kuminga, I think Klay was tired of the disrespect. 

The Warriors beat reporter put it very bluntly in his send off article that the Warriors WILL NOT be better without Klay next year, and having had not gotten Paul George, the Warriors are in trouble.

[Tyler]

Not just Green. They also way overpaid Poole who was a total disaster on and off the court. But when it came to Klay -- the true professional of all of them -- they suddenly got tight with money. I'd be upset, too.

[Jmaciscool]

I think this is apart of it. 

But I think the main reason Klay is done with GSW started last year when they refused to offer him a proper extension. Especially having given Green a 4 year 100 mil deal that year. 

Instead of just taking care of Klay, the Warriors FO played hardball with him. Then going into the off-season, again instead of making Klay a priority, they focus on big fish chasing. That for me was where they truly lost Klay. GSW's last chance to make Klay feel like he was a big part of the team and they blew it.

On top of a probable diminished role with Podz/Kuminga, I think Klay was tired of the disrespect. 

The Warriors beat reporter put it very bluntly in his send off article that the Warriors WILL NOT be better without Klay next year, and having had not gotten Paul George, the Warriors are in trouble.

Klay should have punched a teammate and gotten multiple suspensions for hostile acts to show how much he cared about the franchise. Maybe then he would have gotten that extension!

[Deebo]

Do we also have lower level exemption? Meaning can trade for Klay. Sign djj to 12 million and still get another player around 5?

[DanSchwartzgan]

Oh interesting....

Could Detroit accept Josh Green as part of the THJ trade to increase the Mavs TPE to around 28.5 mil? Klay could start at around 23 mil and the Mavs would still have enough for the full MLE and a vet min.

Hmmmmmm

You still have the total roster cost limitation no matter how you slice it if Thompson is a S&T or if you use an old TPE (Grimes) or use an exception larger than $5.2mm.  So, the $26.5mm-ish total spend limit still applies.  There are TPE-ways that get you there and there are trade-match ways that get you there (you don't worry about more than 100% of outgoing coming back because you got hard-capped in other ways).

The only real way you bump these numbers for Klay (or any other S&T) is to add bodies making more than the minimum (like Powell or Exum or maybe Maxi).