Trade & FA 2024-25:

[omahen]

I have my computer now, for better math-ing.

KS's number is wrong, for our purposes. Not sure what he included, but someone else (Marks, maybe?) said 14.9, and that number is right - but it doesn't include any cushion for having to stay under the Apron. (There's no chance whatsoever that a team would not leave a cushion - the Apron is unforgiving, there are no exceptions given.)

So I set aside exactly 1M for a cushion, and work from there.

That leaves 13.9 for DJJ, which leaves 1M left over to combine with an outgoing player (in the right trade setup). BOTTOM LINE - If you send out Green, you could acquire a player making up to 13.65M-ish.

14,9 mil includes 2 vet min cap holds, if I am not wrong. One of that cap holds is gone, if you bring in a FA. Which means the available salary is over 15 mil with cushion included.

Mavs can't even pay 13.9 to DJJ as it is more than MLE. If DJJ takes less than full MLE, than Mavs have even more spread.

[DanSchwartzgan]

It is always nice when FG and Omahen come to similar conclusions to your own.

[KillerLeft]

I feel ya.  I can live with the versions of this where the decision is Klay for Green.  I think Klay makes us better during the rest of Kyrie's time here.

The one I struggle with is the versions of this where we simply trade Green to keep DJJ.  It is less clear to me that DJJ is better than Green.  I take some solace that Grimes fills the Green 'hole' and DJJ is the backup 3 behind Thompson.  But, it will sting a little.

This really is kind of about maximizing the Kyrie window. I would've poo-poo'd that kind of thinking a year ago, but if an NBA finals appearance doesn't prove you should be all-in, I don't know what does. 

And, even if they do have to give away Green, it's AMAZING how young they have become to be this all-in.

[omahen]

That's very close to a match. It works for both GS and DAL, but it's 1M too much incoming for LAC, which is a 2nd Apron team so tricky to solve. Maybe Green or Maxi gets sent elsewhere rather than LAC?

Mavs can just expand the Detroit deal, which requiers only one salary (at most) to be sent out...

They can deal with DJJ space in a separate deal

[SleepingHero]

Block Sr. (@517to214)
Klay Thompson is 34 with a cooked acl and Achilles yet still missed less games by far than Maxi and Josh Green the last two years.

[F Gump]

Mavs can just expand the Detroit deal, which requires only one salary (at most) to be sent out...

They can deal with DJJ space in a separate deal

Yes, just piggybacking LAC-GS-DAL onto the THJ-to-DET deal, and sending either of Green or Maxi to LAC, but not both, is one solution to the LAC-GS-DAL trade (although there will be a LOT of extra minor parts added to that deal, if it becomes a 4-way, because of the NBA's so-called "touch rule").

My premise is that the Mavs will sign DJJ, so the end result is likely to still have both Green and Maxi outgoing. I need to note that I can't get to a way to keep either one of Green or Maxi in this Klay scenario, and also re-sign DJJ. This Hard Cap World is a real limiter on salary once you get past a certain point.

Edited to Add -- If GS is headed this direction, they likely waive CP3 and send Wiggins to LAC. That assumes that's acceptable to LAC. A different scenario is that they send CP3 to LAC (in which case DAL definitely can't send both Maxi and Green to LAC), but that necessitates Wiggins being swapped for air, but not sure that deal is easily doable.

[KillerLeft]

Yes, just sending either of Green or Maxi to LAC, but not both, is one solution to the LAC-GS-DAL trade (although there will be a LOT of extra minor parts added to that deal, if it becomes a 4-way, because of the NBA's so-called "touch rule").

My premise is that the Mavs will sign DJJ, so the end result is likely to still have both Green and Maxi outgoing. I need to note that I can't get to a way to keep either one of Green or Maxi in this Klay scenario, and also re-sign DJJ. This Hard Cap World is a real limiter on salary once you get past a certain point.

That's OK! 

DJJ, Grimes, Klay. Where do I sign?

[F Gump]

14,9 mil includes 2 vet min cap holds, if I am not wrong. One of that cap holds is gone, if you bring in a FA. Which means the available salary is over 15 mil with cushion included.

Mavs can't even pay 13.9 to DJJ as it is more than MLE. If DJJ takes less than full MLE, than Mavs have even more spread.

I'm not sure what you were saying here, but 14,893,363 is the money that is left with 13 players accounted for, and DJJ is still unsigned. 

After subtracting 1M for an operating cushion, that leaves ~13.9M to allocate between some combo of DJJ (whose limit would be 12.9), the 15th slot, and a more-than-100% trade match.

[LukaMVP]

Block Sr. (@517to214)
Klay Thompson is 34 with a cooked acl and Achilles yet still missed less games by far than Maxi and Josh Green the last two years.

dude's ACL and Achilles haven't sidelined him too much but they have taken away his pace/athleticism/jumping/slide that he used to have and that enabled him to be a great perimeter defender. Klay may still be a good role player, the Kyle Korver type, but not a 3&D at all imho. playing Klay as a starter at SF would hurt our team defensively more than he would help us offensively imho.

[mvossman]

Honestly, this question is off the top of my head, because I haven't really thought about the off-season landscape from this strict of an angle, but knowing the Mavs' goal is to keep the team intact while significantly improving their outside shooting, IS there a better shooter even plausibly available this summer than Klay Thompson?

We've been saying "shooting from the wings and above the break" for 2-3 weeks. This would be adding two players who address that exact need by the first day of free agency, and BOTH of them can contribute, defensively (albeit on different levels).

Seriously, if they can do this AND retain DJJ, I don't know how you can be mad at it, I really don't.

Luke Kennard?  He would be much cheaper, younger, and not expect to be in starting lineup. 

Are we not concerned that golden state is giving up on this guy?

Are we expecting him to start?  He is not a POA defender. Is that no longer a priority?

How could I be mad?  He is 34 with a very scary injury history. He could fall off a cliff at any time at which point that contract is an albatross. We finally cleaned the cap sheet and now we do this?  There are many other options with those salaries that don’t involve near the contract risk. This just feels like an overreaction to the finals loss. It also feels like a classic Cuban move.

[SkenfromLMF]

IF I were to throw wet blankets on the idea of Klay...
Remember that a large part of THJ's game was lost following lower body injuries (*hockey term).
I am a little leery of paying Klay after injury without a larger sample of his play following said time -
Yes I am scared - I follow the Rangers (pitching staff); I also pay attention to the Cowboys paying the likes of Michael Gallup (and a host of others); ultimately I would feel much shame IF the Mavs repeated the KP contractual process with someone else's injured player.

Not saying don't do it for Klay but it can't be an emotional (or even memories of the good ol' days of Klay) decision.

[KillerLeft]

Luke Kennard?  He would be much cheaper, younger, and not expect to be in starting lineup. 

Are we not concerned that golden state is giving up on this guy?

Are we expecting him to start?  He is not a POA defender. Is that no longer a priority?

How could I be mad?  He is 34 with a very scary injury history. He could fall off a cliff at any time at which point that contract is an albatross. We finally cleaned the cap sheet and now we do this?  There are many other options with those salaries that don’t involve near the contract risk. This just feels like an overreaction to the finals loss. It also feels like a classic Cuban move.

Call it an overreaction if you want, there might be some validity to that. But, it is undeniable that something has to change for the Mavs, offensively. That's plain as day. Once you realize Grant isn't an option, due to his salary, the fact that he plays PJ's position and the trade cost (I just listened to a podcast that suggested Dallas has been calling Portland nonstop, and that Portland just doesn't like what Dallas has to offer), then I really don't see any attractive options out there to add offensive pop to the roster, other than just getting a third heliocentric guard to play behind Luka and Kyrie at the sacrifice of Hardy's last rookie contract year. I feel like that's just more of the same and highly unlikely to yield different results.  

Again, I'm only on board with this IF Jones is retained AND Klay understands that he's going to sit during crucial stretches when needed. Past that, you're still retaining DJJ and adding Grimes (whose POA defense you like, right?). I assume if Jones is back it will be with the understanding that he's coming back for a big role, minutes wise, and I think Grimes will get a huge chance to earn a role. I believe he'll prove more up to it than Green was, but time will tell. 

For all we know, this is "starting" but really just a suped up version of the Hardaway role (only from a forward spot, which will make rotations easier) and for all we know, Klay is cool with that. I'll worry about minutes/lineup combos if/when this is all official, but I think there's a way to make this work. 

As far as it being a Cuban move, I'd agree if this was instead of Jones, or more accurately, if they had paid a toll to dump Hardaway, not done anything else (like Grimes) and were planning to show up on Klay's doorstep as the clock made free agency legal to roll the dice, but this feels, to me, like borderline tampering, which as we all know is how the winning teams have been operating for years. It's important to remember that he (Klay) seems to be trying to find a way here. It's definitely not as sexy as it would be if he was 28-29, but it's still kind of a big deal, and he's got to understand that he's jumping onto a bus already moving pretty fast here. That's very likely why he's interested. I'm hopeful he understands that both the role and (hopefully) the salary amount will have to involve some sacrifice from him to be here, rather than in Orlando, but we'll see. 

What I can't believe people aren't seeing, is that this is EXTRA. You're already comparing it to things they could've done with the money, but they don't even have to spend the money. 48 hours ago we would've been happy just to know they found a way to dump THJ and re-sign DJJ, and now that they're going above and beyond that, we're pissed? The alternative might very well have been Grimes, DJJ, a vet minimum guy and then call it a summer. 

They're turning Josh Green and Kleber (a guy you, yourself have called a negative asset - I don't even agree with that) into Klay Thompson. I assume they're doing it because they think he helps shore up what they consider to be their biggest weakness, and I also assume Kyrie and Luka have both signed off on it. As long as they're not giving away their POA guy in Jones (and in fact, it seems as though they've added another one in Grimes) I don't get the angst. Yes, there's a chance he steals money for three years, but there's also a chance he makes a difference. They NEEDED more offense.

[RGP1981]

Very happy with the Grimes trade.

The next biggest need, (after signing DJJ of course), is to hire a personal chef and a personal trainer for Luka... to bring his weight down by 30 pounds or more, and keep it down there forever.

I'm also wondering if the Mavs need a better backup for PJW than Maxi. (Who?) If PJW goes down in the important part of the season.... :FEAR:

And, is there a need to get involved in the Hartenstein sweepstakes, to keep him from rivals as well as to give the Mavs a 5-out option.

[mvossman]

Call it an overreaction if you want, there might be some validity to that. But, it is undeniable that something has to change for the Mavs, offensively. That's plain as day. Once you realize Grant isn't an option, due to his salary, the fact that he plays PJ's position and the trade cost (I just listened to a podcast that suggested Dallas has been calling Portland nonstop, and that Portland just doesn't like what Dallas has to offer), then I really don't see any attractive options out there to add offensive pop to the roster, other than just getting a third heliocentric guard to play behind Luka and Kyrie at the sacrifice of Hardy's last rookie contract year. I feel like that's just more of the same and highly unlikely to yield different results.  

Again, I'm only on board with this IF Jones is retained AND Klay understands that he's going to sit during crucial stretches when needed. Past that, you're still retaining DJJ and adding Grimes (whose POA defense you like, right?). I assume if Jones is back it will be with the understanding that he's coming back for a big role, minutes wise, and I think Grimes will get a huge chance to earn a role. I believe he'll prove more up to it than Green was, but time will tell. 

For all we know, this is "starting" but really just a suped up version of the Hardaway role (only from a forward spot, which will make rotations easier) and for all we know, Klay is cool with that. I'll worry about minutes/lineup combos if/when this is all official, but I think there's a way to make this work. 

As far as it being a Cuban move, I'd agree if this was instead of Jones, or more accurately, if they had paid a toll to dump Hardaway, not done anything else (like Grimes) and were planning to show up on Klay's doorstep as the clock made free agency legal to roll the dice, but this feels, to me, like borderline tampering, which as we all know is how the winning teams have been operating for years. It's important to remember that he (Klay) seems to be trying to find a way here. It's definitely not as sexy as it would be if he was 28-29, but it's still kind of a big deal, and he's got to understand that he's jumping onto a bus already moving pretty fast here. That's very likely why he's interested. I'm hopeful he understands that both the role and (hopefully) the salary amount will have to involve some sacrifice from him to be here, rather than in Orlando, but we'll see. 

What I can't believe people aren't seeing, is that this is EXTRA. You're already comparing it to things they could've done with the money, but they don't even have to spend the money. 48 hours ago we would've been happy just to know they found a way to dump THJ and re-sign DJJ, and now that they're going above and beyond that, we're pissed? The alternative might very well have been Grimes, DJJ, a vet minimum guy and then call it a summer. 

They're turning Josh Green and Kleber (a guy you, yourself have called a negative asset - I don't even agree with that) into Klay Thompson. I assume they're doing it because they think he helps shore up what they consider to be their biggest weakness, and I also assume Kyrie and Luka have both signed off on it. As long as they're not giving away their POA guy in Jones (and in fact, it seems as though they've added another one in Grimes) I don't get the angst. Yes, there's a chance he steals money for three years, but there's also a chance he makes a difference. They NEEDED more offense.

Calling this extra ignores opportunity cost. I would match rather go after someone like brogdon, who is much less risk, better fit (both team and Kyrie timeline). If that contract goes bad it hampers for years

[KillerLeft]

Luke Kennard?  He would be much cheaper, younger, and not expect to be in starting lineup. 

Not to nitpick, because I understand where you're coming from with the "overreaction" point and have made similar points myself. 

But, if you're going to add offense, in the form of creation, shooting, whatever, it has to come in the form of someone who's going to play in a tightened playoff rotation to move the needle at all, especially from the Mavs' starting point. To me, Luke Kennard would be another Seth Curry. What does that really do for you? I'd call that under-reacting. 

I think maybe you're just not as freaked out about the offensive problem the Mavs are facing as I am. I think doing this instead of Jones would be an overreaction, but this just feels to me like a pretty decent bet that you can get a couple more years of good play out Klay. When I say that, I'm talking about both sides of the floor. I realize he's not the defender he used to be, but I have to think he's up to being a good team defender, or they wouldn't be interested. If he's not, this won't work. I'll give you that. But, even if that's the case, what's the worst that can happen? You're stuck with another Hardaway, who eventually falls out of the rotation until you find a use for his contract. The end. I'm cool with that, IF THEY HAVE GRIMES AND JONES. I don't view the exit of Josh Green as any huge risk.

[RGP1981]

Calling this extra ignores opportunity cost. I would match rather go after someone like brogdon, who is much less risk, better fit (both team and Kyrie timeline). If that contract goes bad it hampers for years

Yuck. Do not want dollar store Oscar Martinez a.k.a. Brogdon.

[KillerLeft]

Calling this extra ignores opportunity cost. I would match rather go after someone like brogdon, who is much less risk, better fit (both team and Kyrie timeline). If that contract goes bad it hampers for years

I just disagree. That's another guard. He can't play WITH Kyrie and Luka, which is clearly the hurdle they're trying to get over here (regardless of how likely you find it to be successful). Another guard might help with bench scoring, but I think Hardy is ready. 

They need offense from a forward spot. This isn't my favorite of the possible paths we imagined, but it leaves PJ's role intact and identifies (rightly) that DJJ, while crucial, is the weak link, offensively. Now, at the very least, they'll have offensive/defensive options at that spot, and I'm hopeful that Jones' shooting can still improve AND that Klay can still hold his own, defensively. 

I'm not worried about the contract, really, as it's not actually going to be THAT big, as long as it allows for Jones to be retained.

[RGP1981]

They're turning Josh Green and Kleber (a guy you, yourself have called a negative asset - I don't even agree with that) into Klay Thompson.

I'm not a fan of this move. I'd rather have Green and Kleber than Klay... although I'd be fine with trading Josh Green for a better backup to Luka/Kyrie and trading Kleber for a better backup to PJW.

[KillerLeft]

I'm not a fan of this move. I'd rather have the Aussie Airballer and the Wurzburg Wanker than Klay... although I'd be fine with trading Josh Green for a better backup to Luka/Kyrie and trading Kleber for a better backup to PJW.

I disagree, but this is at least a valid argument, because it's more likely than not that THIS is the alternative. 

Half the people here think Kleber sucks and has a horrible contract (I am way not one of them) and that contract goes away. Maybe part of why I'm ok with this is that I'm just done with Green. I have finally lost faith. I flatly don't see a need for him on the team, now that Grimes is in the mix.

[SleepingHero]

Luke Kennard?  He would be much cheaper, younger, and not expect to be in starting lineup. 

Are we not concerned that golden state is giving up on this guy?

Are we expecting him to start?  He is not a POA defender. Is that no longer a priority?

How could I be mad?  He is 34 with a very scary injury history. He could fall off a cliff at any time at which point that contract is an albatross. We finally cleaned the cap sheet and now we do this?  There are many other options with those salaries that don’t involve near the contract risk. This just feels like an overreaction to the finals loss. It also feels like a classic Cuban move.

GSW isn't giving up on Klay. They're trying to find Steph a suitable running mate while Steph is a top 6 player in the league. Klay had a better season post achilles in 32 games than Kennard has ever had in his career. They are not the same level of player, nor are they even close to the same level of shooter. 

Klay in a 3rd option is a luxury. This is closer like to the Miami Heat adding Ray Allen in 2013 than it would be adding a Kyle Korver or Luke Kennard.