Trade & FA 2024-25:

[Scott41theMavs]

Question regarding Grimes.  If Detroit wants Hardy also, do you do it?  If Detroit instead wants OMax, do yo do it?

Hardy - would have to research Grimes a bit before pulling that trigger. OMax - absolutely not...

[KillerLeft]

  Question regarding Grimes.  If Detroit wants Hardy also, do you do it?  If Detroit instead wants OMax, do yo do it?

Grimes could potentially steal minutes/developmental time from Hardy (although not necessarily), so if it had to be done, I'd reluctantly include Hardy there. Definitely no O-Max. I also wonder, can Hardy suffice as a good enough asset here to keep 2025 out of this one? Probably not, just hoping. 

A deal with Portland for Grant would absolutely steal minutes/developmental time from O-Max, so I'd be open to including him in that one. I doubt Portland wants anything to do with Hardy with the young guards they're developing already. 

The asset I'm really worried they'll be dumb with is the 2031. I value that more highly (especially if unprotected) than either of those young players, tbqh.

[Chicagojk]

Grimes could potentially steal minutes/developmental time from Hardy (although not necessarily), so if it had to be done, I'd reluctantly include Hardy there. Definitely no O-Max. I also wonder, can Hardy suffice as a good enough asset here to keep 2025 out of this one? Probably not, just hoping. 

A deal with Portland for Grant would absolutely steal minutes/developmental time from O-Max, so I'd be open to including him in that one. I doubt Portland wants anything to do with Hardy with the young guards they're developing already. 

The asset I'm really worried they'll be dumb with is the 2031. I value that more highly (especially if unprotected) than either of those young players, tbqh.

I wouldn't move Omax or Hardy in that deal.  I do have a sweet spot with Hardy so I may be biased.  Next year is big for him and I really want to see how he reacts to a rotation role.   I think there is a role for him if he can continue to grow.

I don't know what to think about Grimes.  Two years ago I thought he would be  15-18 million dollar player that every team would want.   He has not been that player recently.  I don't know if this is due to lack of playing time, bad team, etc.   I am just not sure about him.

I do have trouble thinking Mavs can get him for THJ though.   I think it has to be more.   I am just wondering if that is a couple of second round picks?   If it is OMAX, Hardy or a first...I think I am out.

[Chicagojk]

Unless something hasn't been announced yet or they have something else planned, I am pretty surprised DFS was not traded for a mid 20's pick last night.  DFS struggled the second half of the season, but thought some team would move a 20's pick to get a solid wing player. 

If he wasn't moved for a first, I have trouble thinking some team will move him for a future first.  Maybe a protected pick.  It will be interesting to see who he is moved to.  I don't think we have the package but I would certainly include THJ and any seconds we could offer for him.

Not really surprised Grant or Kuzma was moved.  I think those teams will look for 25 picks and stuff for both.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Grimes could potentially steal minutes/developmental time from Hardy (although not necessarily), so if it had to be done, I'd reluctantly include Hardy there.  

A deal with Portland for Grant would absolutely steal minutes/developmental time from O-Max, so I'd be open to including him in that one.  

That is where I come down also.  You need one more salary if you do something for Grant (THJ/Green or THJ/Maxi) and OMax covers that need.

As I survey things, if Detroit won't play ball, we may be back to....

1. Waiting on cap room teams to see what else they can get (meaning THJ is their sloppy seconds)
2. Doing the Shamet deal and S/Wing the smaller amount

I still see a path potentially with Atlanta.  If they trade Trae or Murray, they could use Green.  If they want to clean the books a bit, THJ for Bogdan B. makes sense.  AJ Griffin appears to be out of their rotation and makes that same $4mm-ish that Grimes makes.  It doesn't quite get you to the NT MLE, but it may get you close enough.  Griffin probably isn't as good as Grimes, but you are getting Bogdan, who solves quite a few things for us.

[Mavs2021]

We just need to find a THJ deal that minimizes our asset losses. Grimes might simply not be worth it. Look at his numbers next to UFA Jordan Nwora.

Grimes career /Nwora career

Age 24 / 25
Points 8.5 / 7.6
Rebounds 2.5 / 3.2
Assists 1.5 / 1.0
Steals 0.7 / 0.4
Blocks 0.3 / 0.2
Shooting 42.8 / 43.3
3pt FG% 37.1 / 37.6
FT 77.2 / 80.7
Minutes 23.4 / 16.3

To be fair Nwora´s on/off numbers are pretty bad. Just saying Grimes + THJ contract does not seem like a 1st round package all things considered, especially when you have to pay him next year. Also say what you want about the Knicks, but they have been very right about all their decisions and if you respect Lindsey´s opinion on DETs end, then this trade has a lot of red flags. Now obviously that´s how you get buy low players.

I´m actually starting to favour the idea of pairing THJ + Green for a better player. You can get a Simons/DeRozan/Hunter like player for them with medium, small or no asset compensation. I don´t think DeRozan or Hunter should be more than 1-2 second rounders, Simons would probably be an unprotected 1st. Then you can do a salary-slashing Bitadze or Smith S&T for Kleber and land at the DJJ number. At that point you just pick #58 and be done with it. I don´t think Hunter costs us any 1st round picks, which means we retain all our future picks to make a move for the Irving replacement/6th man transition. Everybody else is on Luka´s timeline.

Doncic/Exum
Irving/Hardy
Hunter/DJJ
Washington/Smith
Lively/Gafford

Get a 4 year college guard to plug and play in the 2nd unit. Antonio Reeves might be the pick.

[KillerLeft]

I wouldn't move Omax or Hardy in that deal.  I do have a sweet spot with Hardy so I may be biased.  Next year is big for him and I really want to see how he reacts to a rotation role.   I think there is a role for him if he can continue to grow.

I don't know what to think about Grimes.  Two years ago I thought he would be  15-18 million dollar player that every team would want.   He has not been that player recently.  I don't know if this is due to lack of playing time, bad team, etc.   I am just not sure about him.

I do have trouble thinking Mavs can get him for THJ though.   I think it has to be more.   I am just wondering if that is a couple of second round picks?   If it is OMAX, Hardy or a first...I think I am out.

I’m a Hardy believer, too, but the thing with him is that this is it for his rookie deal - last year, I think. Like OKC just did with Giddey (different tier of player, obvs), if the Mavs don’t move Hardy now or at the deadline, they’re kind of stuck negotiating/paying him, whether they want to or not. Once they do, he might not seem nearly as valuable. 

If he’s here, I hope they give him a steady 15-22 minute role. If they move him, it won’t surprise me, for that specific reason.

[alancrispim]

Do you know if the Mavs FO gave up on Thybulle? I haven't seen him in trade talks here or anywhere else.
I've been researching a little about Grimes and it seems to me that he would play a similar role to Thybulle, is that right?
I even suggest this post from a Knicks fan, it's quite enlightening: https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/commen...?rdt=58199

I really like the idea of ​​having Grant, DJJ and PJ taking turns in positions 3 and 4, with OMAX gaining some minutes during the season even if to do so we have to lose THJ, Maxi, Green, 1 FR and SRs.

[dirkfansince1998]

I’m a Hardy believer, too, but the thing with him is that this is it for his rookie deal - last year, I think. Like OKC just did with Giddey (different tier of player, obvs), if the Mavs don’t move Hardy now or at the deadline, they’re kind of stuck negotiating/paying him, whether they want to or not. Once they do, he might not seem nearly as valuable. 

If he’s here, I hope they give him a steady 15-22 minute role. If they move him, it won’t surprise me, for that specific reason.

Isn't it the same issue with Grimes? Last year of his rookie deal. I actually like the idea to have both + Exum. Real competition for the available minutes. One year to figure out who belongs.

[Mavs2021]

I’m a Hardy believer, too, but the thing with him is that this is it for his rookie deal - last year, I think. Like OKC just did with Giddey (different tier of player, obvs), if the Mavs don’t move Hardy now or at the deadline, they’re kind of stuck negotiating/paying him, whether they want to or not. Once they do, he might not seem nearly as valuable. 

If he’s here, I hope they give him a steady 15-22 minute role. If they move him, it won’t surprise me, for that specific reason.

Well since I did it for Grimes and Nwora. Let´s just add Hardy.


Grimes career /Nwora career / Hardy career

Age 24 / 25 / 21
Points 8.5 / 7.6 / 7.9
Rebounds 2.5 / 3.2 / 1.8
Assists 1.5 / 1.0 / 1.4
Steals 0.7 / 0.4 / 0.3
Blocks 0.3 / 0.2 / 0.1
Shooting 42.8 / 43.3 / 42.0
3pt FG% 37.1 / 37.6 / 37.9
FT 77.2 / 80.7 / 80.0
Minutes 23.4 / 16.3 / 14.0

I don´t think it makes any sense to trade Hardy for Grimes. That be nuts. 

They have all played some small-ish play-off minutes for relevant teams (Milwaukee/Dallas/New York). Only Hardy´s shooting held up, the others dropped like stones.

Hardy 43/41/73 (19 games, NBA finals)
Nwora 22/17/56 (13 games, NBA championship)
Grimes 30/24/82 (9 games, six starts, 2nd round)

Hardy is easily the best prospect/asset out of these. We simply have to play him at SG at 25MPG and see what he can do before we make a decision to trade him. 

If I had to make a decision now on Hardy, I´d rather extend him before I trade him for a Grimes/THJ contract package.

[alancrispim]

I found this great site where you can compare 2 players from several different perspectives. Look at this comparison I was making between Grant X DJJ.

I suggest making other comparisons as they are very enlightening:

https://craftednba.com/players/compariso...k-jones-jr.&player2=jerami-grant

[SleepingHero]

Mavs(New)CBA (@CBAMavs)
To get into the weeds even more on the apron room for the Mavs

If McGee signs another contract for this season. Then we’d be able to increase our apron room by around 700k

(Or they could spread the offset like they did for last years to all remaining years)

[SleepingHero]

Evan Sidery (@esidery)
There’s growing buzz that DeMar DeRozan will leave the Bulls in free agency, per @KCJHoop (https://www.nbcsportschicago.com/nba/chi...nt/572333/).

Chicago appears to be prioritizing a youth movement in 2025.

[SleepingHero]

Glen (@Glenjr1988)
Who are these teams going to pay?

DeRozan
Bridges
KCP
Tobias
Klay
Harden
Hartenstein
Valanciunas
D.Lo

Seems like some of these teams will end up taking on salary dumps for picks instead.

[SleepingHero]

Keith Smith (@KeithSmithNBA)
Updated 2024 NBA cap space projections post-Round 1 of the NBA Draft:

Pistons: $64.4M
76ers: $61.3M
Magic: $49.5M
Jazz: $38.1M
Thunder: $31.1M
Spurs: $26.4M

Thunder went down by acquiring the Dillon Jones pick. Spurs went up by trading the Rob Dillingham pick.

[SleepingHero]

Evan Sidery (@esidery)
The Pistons are active in the marketplace as other teams look to them as a potential facilitator for unwanted salary.

If multi-team deals also unfold, Detroit is willing to cooperate as a salary dumping ground in exchange for future assets.

[KillerLeft]

Isn't it the same issue with Grimes? Last year of his rookie deal. I actually like the idea to have both + Exum. Real competition for the available minutes. One year to figure out who belongs.

Well, I haven’t really thought it through completely, but I’m not sure, given the issues with the apron currently, having three guys to pay next year without being sure which ones you want is exactly where you want to be. All I’m saying is that if you aren’t sure by now that Hardy has a role here, I can understand the pragmatism of getting ahead of that.

I have very consistently said that I am ready to give him a role, more so than most. And, I think Grimes would overlap with Green much, much more than he would with Hardy. I was just trying to answer Dan’s question, and I do think the idea that Hardy will be much more expensive expensive in the near future probably does factor into the thinking.

[Mavs2021]

Keith Smith (@KeithSmithNBA)
Updated 2024 NBA cap space projections post-Round 1 of the NBA Draft:

Pistons: $64.4M
76ers: $61.3M
Magic: $49.5M
Jazz: $38.1M
Thunder: $31.1M
Spurs: $26.4M

Thunder went down by acquiring the Dillon Jones pick. Spurs went up by trading the Rob Dillingham pick.

That´s why I think it will be easier to trade THJ in a package with Green for an more expensive impact player. THJ costs like 25 to 50% of a team´s remaining capspace for an outright dump and he has little player value. Why would another team want to do that? If you add Green to the equation, you get a cost-controlled young asset, while you suffer the THJ contract for one season. Lose DeRozan for nothing or get Josh Green. Easy choice for the Bulls.*

*arguing this from the perspective of the other teams. Not whether the Mavs should give up Green for a player like DeRozan.

[KillerLeft]

Well since I did it for Grimes and Nwora. Let´s just add Hardy.


Grimes career /Nwora career / Hardy career

Age 24 / 25 / 21
Points 8.5 / 7.6 / 7.9
Rebounds 2.5 / 3.2 / 1.8
Assists 1.5 / 1.0 / 1.4
Steals 0.7 / 0.4 / 0.3
Blocks 0.3 / 0.2 / 0.1
Shooting 42.8 / 43.3 / 42.0
3pt FG% 37.1 / 37.6 / 37.9
FT 77.2 / 80.7 / 80.0
Minutes 23.4 / 16.3 / 14.0

I don´t think it makes any sense to trade Hardy for Grimes. That be nuts. 

They have all played some small-ish play-off minutes for relevant teams (Milwaukee/Dallas/New York). Only Hardy´s shooting held up, the others dropped like stones.

Hardy 43/41/73 (19 games, NBA finals)
Nwora 22/17/56 (13 games, NBA championship)
Grimes 30/24/82 (9 games, six starts, 2nd round)

Hardy is easily the best prospect/asset out of these. We simply have to play him at SG at 25MPG and see what he can do before we make a decision to trade him. 

If I had to make a decision now on Hardy, I´d rather extend him before I trade him for a Grimes/THJ contract package.

I think this puts way too much emphasis on counting-style stats, and not enough on role/fit/playstyle, whatever. The Mavs are looking for a specific type of player to do specific things.

I agree with you that Hardy is a great prospect, but I think it’s also disingenuous to prioritize how good a prospect is over something that could conceivably help your team right now. You and I can be big Hardy fans, and we are, but to this point, he has not even been a rotation player here. If they trade for Grimes, they will obviously view him as such right out of the gate.

I’m not TRYING to move Hardy for anybody, if it’s up to me. I can tell you that I would rather include Hardy in any deal than an unprotected first in 2031.

[SleepingHero]

That´s why I think it will be easier to trade THJ in a package with Green for an more expensive impact player. THJ costs like 25 to 50% of a team´s remaining capspace for an outright dump and he has little player value. Why would another team want to do that? If you add Green to the equation, you get a cost-controlled young asset, while you suffer the THJ contract for one season. Lose DeRozan for nothing or get Josh Green. Easy choice for the Bulls.*

*arguing this from the perspective of the other teams. Not whether the Mavs should give up Green for a player like DeRozan.

Well the Bulls can sign DeRozan to anything they want, regardless if THJ ate up the rest of their 0 space (they have about 65mil of cap holds in DeRozan and Williams they have to take care of). If the Bulls let everyone walk they got 13 mil of space.

THJ doesn't affect their ability to keep any of their guys.