Trade & FA 2024-25:

[dirkfansince1998]

Yeah, I got really excited when I saw the Portland rumor, because my first thought was about Grant.

Then, my second thought was about DeAndrea Ayton, and that excitement turned to terror in an instant.

Then, I remembered the Thybulle thing, and it’s very likely that that is what this rumor is about, if it’s true. VERY likely. My take on Thybulle is well documented around here, so I wouldn’t love it, but I would like it a hell of a lot more than Tobias Harris. As a bench player, I’m not sure he can really hurt you that badly. Worst case scenario is he gets played out of the playoff rotation, just like Hardaway did. No harm no foul there (unless you give up a pick or Hardy or something stupid). And, he probably makes your defense a little bit better during the regular season as he eats innings. Who knows, maybe he will shoot better than I think, just like Jones did, but he is definitely not a solution to what got the Mavericks bounced out of the finals, that’s for sure. Still, I don’t hate it as much as I hated penciling him in as the starter at the three last season when that offer went out.

You know that I usually join you on the spacing is key crusade but I am super intrigued by the potential of a three headed defensive monster. Thybulle is even better than DJJ and PJ on that end and I think he would be a great fit in Kidd's scheme. There is no better/more active off ball defender in the league. Looking at tracking numbers Thybulle is in a league of his own when it comes to deflections, steals/36. For a team that likes to overload a player that covers a lot of ground, plays the gaps and passing lanes is the perfect fit.

[mvossman]

You know that I usually join you on the spacing is key crusade but I am super intrigued by the potential of a three headed defensive monster. Thybulle is even better than DJJ and PJ on that end and I think he would be a great fit in Kidd's scheme. There is no better/more active off ball defender in the league. Looking at tracking numbers Thybulle is in a league of his own when it comes to deflections, steals/36. For a team that likes to overload a player that covers a lot of ground, plays the gaps and passing lanes is the perfect fit.

This move makes more sense in combination with your suggestion to send out Green + draft capital for a third creator.

[KillerLeft]

You know that I usually join you on the spacing is key crusade but I am super intrigued by the potential of a three headed defensive monster. Thybulle is even better than DJJ and PJ on that end and I think he would be a great fit in Kidd's scheme. There is no better/more active off ball defender in the league. Looking at tracking numbers Thybulle is in a league of his own when it comes to deflections, steals/36. For a team that likes to overload a player that covers a lot of ground, plays the gaps and passing lanes is the perfect fit.

This is all good, and I know you well enough to respect your basketball opinions.

Tell me how it fixes the mavericks’ 101 offensive rating from the NBA finals. 

Again, I am not against it, but, while I am not exactly Red Auerbach over here, i’m pretty confident this move slides them further away from fixing what was wrong with the offense, not closer to that solution. 

If it ends up being a smaller move in the grand scheme of the summer, I’m cool with it. I LOVE the defensive identity the team has now, and I am all for continuing it, but they’ve GOT to fix things on the offensive end, and that has to be the main goal of this summer.

[F Gump]

FWIW the Mavs can't trade for Thybulle until July. So if a trade between them happens now, it's not for Thybulle.

[mvossman]

FWIW the Mavs can't trade for Thybulle until July. So if a trade between them happens now, it's not for Thybulle.

There is nothing wrong with making that trade now, but not having it go in effect until July, right?  Wasn't it similar with Grant Williams trade?  It was announced before it could go into effect, right?

[KillerLeft]

There is nothing wrong with making that trade now, but not having it go in effect until July, right?  Wasn't it similar with Grant Williams trade?  It was announced before it could go into effect, right?

Except that the timing would suggest that draft strategy is at least part of the equation, for one team or the other. 

…if this is even a true rumor. 

But to your point, they could be talking about something that won’t go down until July, sure.

[F Gump]

No they can't make the trade now, with a delayed execution date. They can agree in principle, but no one can commit to a deal until it's legal. And it has to be submitted to NBA and be approved, CBA-legal at the point it's submitted.

"Announcing" a trade is weird. It can (and often does) get leaked, rather than anything being said by the team to the public. And in the older days, announcing something before it was legal was strictly forbidden, with penalties. I think they've relaxed those rules to some degree, although I really don't have a good feel anymore on what can or can't be done.

[audiosway]

You know that I usually join you on the spacing is key crusade but I am super intrigued by the potential of a three headed defensive monster. Thybulle is even better than DJJ and PJ on that end and I think he would be a great fit in Kidd's scheme. There is no better/more active off ball defender in the league. Looking at tracking numbers Thybulle is in a league of his own when it comes to deflections, steals/36. For a team that likes to overload a player that covers a lot of ground, plays the gaps and passing lanes is the perfect fit.

My concern with Thybulle is that he's only really good on the defensive side of the ball. Oh he's a lock down defender. But, the Mavs need someone who can shoot also. Their defense has been suffocating. They only scored over 100 1 time in the Finals. And they held the Celtics in check. That was the lowest consistent output scoring that the Celtics had all year.

I would rather just grow the current players than add another non shooter. If PJ is a 10% better shooter and DJJ is a 10% better shooter that opens up the floor for Luka and Kyrie. Same with Lively/Gafford.

It's like Nico said at the presser. If this team gets 10-15% better over the summer they win that series. Granted I want to see them add another lengthy cold blooded shooter and another ball handler. (Unless Hardy/Exum improve in that role) This team is very close.

For that matter, I think a healthy Luka pushes the C's to 7.

[SleepingHero]

@esidery
The Warriors have been actively searching for a large-scale upgrade utilizing Chris Paul’s $30 million non-guaranteed salary, per
@anthonyVslater
(https://nytimes.com/athletic/5583540/202...otiations/).

Paul and Golden State have already discussed potentially pushing back his guarantee date from June 28 into July to provide more flexibility in trade talks.

CP3 could soon be on his third team in three years.

[SleepingHero]

[KillerLeft]

Great summary of why PJ/DJJ worked so well defensively. I've been penciling Jones in as the 2 and Luka as the 3 in all my lineups lately because of this. You can't just plug in a typical "starting SF" and get the same result.

I do have some doubt that Jerami Grant can fill that role though. I actually wanted him over PJ at the deadline because he's a legit 3rd option (and I didn't realize that PJ would be a game changer on defense). But what I remember reading from Portland fans is that many viewed Grant as purely a PF at this point in his career. They didn't want to call him a 3 because he wasn't quick enough. I guess the hope would be that it's more a lack of effort from the offensive burden he's carrying than a lack of footspeed.

I think this is all incredibly insightful and astute.

DISCLAIMER: What I am about to say would not be my preferred path to acquiring someone like Grant.

Having said that, after watching the Mavericks struggle on the offensive end the way that they did against Boston, I would consider the pros and cons of exchanging PJ Washington for Grant, should that opportunity present itself. 

To be clear, I am still a Washington believer, and I think that he will look much better on that side of the floor for the Mavericks next year than he did down the stretch of this year. What he was doing for this team defensively was very similar to the role he played in Charlotte, but on offense what they asked him to do was much different than what he had been doing leading up to the trade. A full training camp, and another year of development for a 25-year-old should yield some good results in this area, I would assume. 

But, Grant gets you there immediately. Overnight. You need someone to bring the ball up the way they wanted Washington to do at times in the playoffs? Grant has been doing that for four years. Well. You need someone to attack closeouts and put pressure on the rim, with the ability to play make for others? Grant. You need someone who is a reliable three point shooter from both corners, both wings, and above the break? Grant is your guy, and my hunch is that he will improve even more at this with the kind of shots he’d get here, playing next to Luka and Kyrie.

And, I think you would see him buckle down on defense, like Washington just did, due to being grateful for the opportunity to be on a real team again. That part is my hope, but I think it is a reasonable one, and if he does that he is a better defender than Washington. 

None of that should be interpreted as lack of confidence in Washington, because I am more than happy to leave his name written in ink at the 4 if that’s what they do. But, I am much more open to replacing him with someone like Grant than I am with the idea of John Collins, Tobias Harris, Kyle Kuzma, etc.

Long story short, a combination of Grant and Jones, defensively, might be even better than the combination of Washington and Jones, and I know it would be better offensively. My dream would be to have all three of them, but that’s probably not realistic.

[Chicagojk]

The indirect Green and Thybulle swap is interesting. If you remember Dallas expected Thybulle to start if Portland didn’t match.

The negative is can he stay on the floor aS teams are going to leave him wide open? Morey eventually decided the answer was no.

When I hear Kidd talk about Green I hear him say he only cares about energy from Green, not stats. Maybe not energy, but the things Kidd wants from Green, thybulle is probably better at the .

Green is younger and has higher upside due to his potential offensive flexibility. It just doesn’t seem like Dallas puts much value in his potential skill set there. Dallas would need another wing though who could score.

[KillerLeft]

For the record, I don’t hate the idea of Klay Thompson here, in the unlikely event that his situation gets dire enough that the Mavericks can afford to acquire him in a way that makes sense. No idea what circumstances would constitute that situation, I am just saying that I think he could help this team.

[SleepingHero]

The indirect Green and Thybulle swap is interesting. If you remember Dallas expected Thybulle to start if Portland didn’t match.

The negative is can he stay on the floor aS teams are going to leave him wide open? Morey eventually decided the answer was  no.

When I hear Kidd talk about Green I hear him say he only cares about energy from Green,  not stats.  Maybe not energy, but the things Kidd wants from Green, thybulle is probably better at the .

Green is younger and has higher upside due to his potential offensive flexibility.  It just doesn’t seem like Dallas puts much value in his potential skill set there.  Dallas would need another wing though who could score.

I can't repeat enough how enamored I am with Thybulle.

He was shooting about 41% on 3s until January. After that he had a bad stretch of games (think like 20%) and then Portland shut him down to trudge on with the tank.

If he can even shoot 35% on 3s he'd be perfect here. Perfect perfect.

[SleepingHero]

For the record, I don’t hate the idea of Klay Thompson here, in the unlikely event that his situation gets dire enough that the Mavericks can afford to acquire him in a way that makes sense. No idea what circumstances would constitute that situation, I am just saying that I think he could help this team.

Thompson is a rare candidate this summer of having both the qualities of a scorer we need (2nd best shooter of all time, can create his own shot etc), with size, while also being okay with leading the bench. 

If I could pick Klays next contract and just place him on the Mavs I'd do it in a heartbeat. He's good enough still even if he's slowing down. And talk about adding finals experience to this young roster!

[KillerLeft]

I can't repeat enough how enamored I am with Thybulle.

He was shooting about 41% on 3s until January. After that he had a bad stretch of games (think like 20%) and then Portland shut him down to trudge on with the tank.

If he can even shoot 35% on 3s he'd be perfect here. Perfect perfect.

You are dug in on this, and I can respect that. 

I’m just saying that if we have learned anything from watching guys like Green and Exum, we should know that percentage isn’t everything.

Mvossman made a point to me earlier about how Jones’ percentage didn’t improve that much this year, only that’s misleading, because his ATTEMPTS (code for willingness to shoot, which is code for finally understanding what it takes to stay on the floor) increased significantly. In that set of circumstances, even maintaining a percentage from one year to the next is actually a huge IMPROVEMENT, percentage wise, if you follow my meaning. 

I think Green and Exum both shoot well. They just won’t do it enough. You have to make yourself a credible threat on offense somehow.

[KillerLeft]

Thompson is a rare candidate this summer of having both the qualities of a scorer we need (2nd best shooter of all time, can create his own shot etc), with size, while also being okay with leading the bench. 

If I could pick Klays next contract and just place him on the Mavs I'd do it in a heartbeat. He's good enough still even if he's slowing down. And talk about adding finals experience to this young roster!

I totally agree, except I would tap the brakes on that whole “being OK to lead the bench” part. Maybe he is, but I have a hunch that might be part of the divorce.

[Chicagojk]

I can't repeat enough how enamored I am with Thybulle.

He was shooting about 41% on 3s until January. After that he had a bad stretch of games (think like 20%) and then Portland shut him down to trudge on with the tank.

If he can even shoot 35% on 3s he'd be perfect here. Perfect perfect.

I haven't thought it thru entirely.  I am just having trouble thinking how a Jones and Thybulle combo can score enough.  Especially with blocking a path for OMAX who I have hopes for in 6 months-year time line.   In addition with a Jones and Thbulle pairing I think we still need that one more wing.   It is just a lot of mouths to feed.   It is just so tough to try to maximize defense and offense.   I will need to think about it more.

[F Gump]

Here's a tweak to some of the ideas above that might solve ALL the needs (if you can figure out who goes in the empty slot). The specific moves don't have to be these exact ones - they can be done in any number of ways. Using the ideas above:

1 Swap Green for pick 26 (WAS) which you plan to use. (You may or may not piggy-back another player on this to come to DAL.)
2 Trade THJ-Lawson for Thybulle. (You may or may not piggy-back another player on this to come to DAL.)
3 Don't resign Morris.

Now you have 12 players with 2 open roster slots, and about 19.5M for DJJ and 1 more player salary (via trade, or BAE). SIDE NOTE: I think DJJ would be overpaid at 12.9M MLE, and would hope to see him signed more in the 10.5-11M range. But that's just details.

Can you find an offensive player that works in that scenario?

[mvossman]

You are dug in on this, and I can respect that. 

I’m just saying that if we have learned anything from watching guys like Green and Exum, we should know that percentage isn’t everything.

Mvossman made a point to me earlier about how Jones’ percentage didn’t improve that much this year, only that’s misleading, because his ATTEMPTS (code for willingness to shoot, which is code for finally understanding what it takes to stay on the floor) increased significantly. In that set of circumstances, even maintaining a percentage from one year to the next is actually a huge IMPROVEMENT, percentage wise, if you follow my meaning. 

I think Green and Exum both shoot well. They just won’t do it enough. You have to make yourself a credible threat on offense somehow.

In regards to Thybulle, I also pointed out that he takes more attempts than DJJ (even after DJJ raised his attempts by 50% here).  Thybulle actually shoots more often than all of DJJ, Green and Exum, and I would expect that to increase if he were playing with Luka (although I do realize that part of that is because he doesn't do much else offensively).