Trade & FA 2023-24: HOU Targeting Mikal Bridges again!| Mitchell is LAL #1 Target

[meistermatze]

I could live with us getting Vuc, at least he can rebound, which is one are of major concern for us. But nobody should expect him to improve our interior defense. He is worse than hurt KP at that.

[Mavs2021]

Given Luka's young age, I suspect there will be era's within his tenure here (like the Finley/Nash era of Dirk's career).  I like that Vuc is 3 years which matches Kyrie and is out of the way before you have to extend Lively.  Maybe the next few years you have vets like Irving, Vucevic and THJ in your top 8 while you let the kids season some more.

We have some data on Vucevic and DJJ playing together (D-Rating of 109 last year and 108.5 the season before).  Whether that is a bench tandem or a starting tandem (short term), there probably are ways to get the Vuc positives without being just awful defensively.

The Bulls are such a shitshow. Makes the whole assessment so difficult. There was a season Lavine/White were the Bulls starting backcourt. I think they were literally the worst defensive backcourt in the whole league. Next year they had a different set-up, White off the bench, minimum overlap. They were both net-neutral defenders. Guess who is the Bulls starting backcourt again? You have Lavine, DeRozan and Vucevic already in your S5. Who in their right mind puts volume chucker White at 39/31/81 splits next to them, when it could be Williams, Craig, Dosunmu or Caruso.

Billy Donovan is a poor coach imho. Another puzzle piece to fit into the picture. Always expecting his stars to bail him out. Only play-off success he ever had was blowing a 3-1 conference finals lead with peak Westbrook/Roberson/Durant/Ibaka/Adams. The Doc Rivers special.

[omahen]

I wouldn't spend any asset on Vucevic and it will certainly take asset(s) to get him. He is not a long term solution.

[Mavs2021]

I wouldn't spend any asset on Vucevic and it will certainly take asset(s) to get him. He is not a long term solution.

31 year old THJ on a 34/2 deal averaging 18 PPG in 28 minutes shooting 43/38/100 with bad defense is a net negative asset.
33 year old Vucevic on a 60/3 deal averaging 18 PPG in 35 minutes shooting 49/32/76 with bad defense is a net positive asset.

I´m not sure I follow that logic.

Realistically you can point to multiple contending teams that would like to add a DeRozan or Lavine.

Which teams would like to add Vucevic?

Nets for expiring Dinwiddie is an outside possibility I guess.
 
Clippers and Suns sure would like another big but they have absolutely nothing in assets to match his salary that doesn´t smell like a dumpster. 

Kuminga/Looney is a pretty good one. OMG can we get Looney out of this. That is the real pipedream here.

[omahen]

31 year old THJ on a 34/2 deal averaging 18 PPG in 28 minutes shooting 43/38/100 with bad defense is a net negative asset.
33 year old Vucevic on a 60/3 deal averaging 18 PPG in 35 minutes shooting 49/32/76 with bad defense is a net positive asset.

I´m not sure I follow that logic.

Realistically you can point to multiple contending teams that would like to add a DeRozan or Lavine.

Which teams would like to add Vucevic?

Nets for expiring Dinwiddie is an outside possibility I guess.
 
Clippers and Suns sure would like another big but they have absolutely nothing in assets to match his salary that doesn´t smell like a dumpster. 

Kuminga/Looney is a pretty good one. OMG can we get Looney out of this. That is the real pipedream here.

Not sure why you are replying to me. Chicago will not just gift Vucevic or just take bad salary to "get rid of him". Why would they? Either you pay asset(s) or they keep him. 

Mavs offense is great as it is. Vucevic doesn't improve our defense, so not sure why would he be our target. He is a good player and can contribute in right environment. I just don't think Mavs are that environment. He is not a piece of puzzle to fit next to Luka and Kyrie imho. Unless the goal is to try to outscore everyone. History shows, that is not possible.

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Rebuilding teams have no need for guys like THJ and they will not pay assets to get him. Contenders might be willing to pay assets, but they will not offer good playrs, they will offer assets. That is a basic fact of trading players.

[omahen]

So if Chicago decides to rebuild, THJ is not what they are interested in. Even if he is considered as a positive contract.

[Chicagojk]

I would not be interested in Vuc either. I think he is a good player and could help a team. He probably isn't going to cost much either. I just don't think we have the assets that would make a deal work. I wouldn't give up our young players or a first round pick.

I think for the Mavs they need to have a firm grasp on Holmes and Maxi. So far it doesn't appear Holmes is on their plans. We need to see if Maxi can stay healthy and be productive.

I think we know what we have in Powell. Ideally he is a 2/3 center. Maybe right out of the rotation for a championship contender but also a guy who can give a good 20ish minutes in the regular season. Lively is the future but you have to expect some rough timelines for him this year. How do they survive when this happens? It is a big concern for me.

edit- speaking of the Bulls, I would be really interested to see how teams view Patrick Williams. I have seen some games where I thought he was going to be really good. Others where he is invisible or really bad. He didn't sign a contract and was supposedly wanting something near 20 million. He has a lot of the measurables that every team wants. He is still only 22 years old too.

[SleepingHero]

NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral)
Zach LaVine has "never, never gotten over" Billy Donovan benching him late vs the Orlando Magic on November 18, 2022, per @KCJHoop

(Via @mullyhaugh / h/t @ChiSportUpdates )

[SleepingHero]

K.C. Johnson (@KCJHoop)
Normally, Zach LaVine says he’s frustrated Bulls aren’t winning. Usually, he responds to rumors by saying “if it didn’t come my mouth . . .” He didn’t do that today. Said “it’s a business.” Said Rich Paul and AK have good relationship.

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Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania)
Daniel Theis and the Indiana Pacers are in serious talks on a contract buyout, which would clear the way for the veteran big man to sign with the Los Angeles Clippers pending a physical exam, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. Clippers frontcourt depth could be arriving soon.

[SleepingHero]

Confirmed.  Duffy client and fellow Balkan Boy, Nicola Vucevic coming to Dallas.

A Bulls fanblog posted this trade idea. Not far off from a Holmes+2nd package so it seems like their own fans don't seem high on Vucevic's trade value. Keeping THJ and adding a starter level center for just a 2nd is a no brainer for me.

A lot of others have identified the issues with Vucevic, mainly being his defense and contract, but he has been a reliable 18/10 guy for the better part of a decade. That is not nothing. He also manages to stay healthy. 

My one issue is if THJ isn't outgoing, are there are 12-14 shots available on this team for Vucevic to be properly utilized? Is he going to take kindly to being reduced to 20mpg? Do we want to put Lively on the bench for longer? (I'm shocked I'm even saying that).

Lots of questions. Perhaps Vucevic would want to take a reduced role as he gets older, especially since he's already signed his extension. But there are concerns there...

THJ for all of his warts fits this team very well in the gameplan they are trying to run, and Vuc doesn't really. If anything LaVine makes more sense in that we need someone as a 3rd scorer whose talent level matches the shot attempts THJ is taking.

Just to put a bow on that LaVine idea, here is Stein talking about the Bulls and the Mavs:

Stein: There are likewise no firm indications yet in circulation that the two-way Bull who would surely generate lots of interest leaguewide — Alex Caruso — will be made available between now and the Feb. 8 trade deadline. Caruso is in the third season of a four-year, $37 million deal.
It appears more feasible that teams such as Miami or the Los Angeles Lakers, rather than Philadelphia, could emerge with substantive trade interest in LaVine since those teams have a clearer need for an offensive infusion.
Dallas is another team that has been linked with LaVine in the past — particularly in advance of LaVine's free agent summer following the 2021-22 season. One league source, however, indicated Tuesday that the Mavericks are unlikely to pursue him.

[MFFL]

I'd throw in Hardy to get a combo of Vucevic & Caruso. And I like Hardy a lot.

[Knutsen]

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Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania)
Daniel Theis and the Indiana Pacers are in serious talks on a contract buyout, which would clear the way for the veteran big man to sign with the Los Angeles Clippers pending a physical exam, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. Clippers frontcourt depth could be arriving soon.

That sucks. Theis would fit really well with us. He played a vital part in Germany winning the world cup.

[Scott41theMavs]

That sucks. Theis would fit really well with us. He played a vital part in Germany winning the world cup.

Get on the phone, Nico!! We still owe the Clippers for the DAJ debacle.

[Mavs2021]

That sucks. Theis would fit really well with us. He played a vital part in Germany winning the world cup.

He´s also childhood friends with Schroeder.

[KillerLeft]

Is Theis better than Powell? I don’t think so.

[Mike lorenzo]

Vuc fits Grizzlies quite well alongside JJJ, in the Warriors or even back to the Magic... now that Carter is injured and they also love him... too great to bring him in a role, THJ that would be ideal... in the boat of only spending assets for two-way players... I don't think J.Collins (to give examples) costs more than Vuc (yes I know, it's not Gobert) but he is athletic, averages 8 rebounds and is shooting the 3 over 40%

[Mavs2021]

Vuc fits Grizzlies quite well alongside JJJ, in the Warriors or even back to the Magic... now that Carter is injured and they also love him... too great to bring him in a role, THJ that would be ideal... in the boat of only spending assets for two-way players... I don't think J.Collins (to give examples) costs more than Vuc (yes I know, it's not Gobert) but he is athletic, averages 8 rebounds and is shooting the 3 over 40%

Lavine makes a lot more sense for Orlando.

[mvossman]

When i think about adding a Center, i think about no more Powell. That is a positive within itself.

So while Vuc may not fit the age or defensive profile we want. He's better than Dwight Powell. Lively may start all season, but he will not stay on the court long. Especially come playoff time. He has issues with fouling, even in college. The refs seem to hate this guy.  We're going to need someone productive for those non-Lively minutes.

Not all that excited about replacing our 4 million backup center with a 20 million backup center who if anything is a downgrade defensively, and potentially paying an asset to do it.  Seems like it would make more sense to go after a defensive option.

[RGP1981]

Rather than Powell, Holmes or Vucevic... I would rather have that athletic Center from the Knicks, Jericho Sims, as a backup to Lively. He is very raw offensively but looks like an excellent defender everywhere on the court, and rebounds very well offensively and defensively. Also seems good as the roll man. With Lively, we have seen how it helps both Luka and Kyrie to have a good lob target.

In other words, Sims will give the Mavs another Lively to use.

If Lively and Sims can stay out of foul trouble for long enough to split 36-40 mins at C, with Kleber getting the remaining mins at C (and more mins at PF), I think that would be very good.

Btw, I was watching the Nuggets vs Clippers game yesterday. Ty Lue went with PJ Tucker at C at the end, and even used lineups with 5 guards and SFs instead of using Zubac. So maybe there is a chance to offload Holmes to the Clippers. Don't want Zubac back in the trade though. LAC won't trade Mann, so maybe Norman Powell?

Holmes + Curry + Morris twin for Norman Powell + Kobe Brown?

Kyrie, Exum, Hardy
Green, Powell, THJ
Luka, DJJ, O-Max
G-Will, Kleber, Brown
Lively, Sims

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Rather than Powell, Holmes or Vucevic... I would rather have that athletic Center from the Knicks, Jericho Sims, as a backup to Lively. He is very raw offensively but looks like an excellent defender everywhere on the court, and rebounds very well offensively and defensively. Also seems good as the roll man. With Lively, we have seen how it helps both Luka and Kyrie to have a good lob target.

In other words, Sims will give the Mavs another Lively to use.

If Lively and Sims can stay out of foul trouble for long enough to split 36-40 mins at C, with Kleber getting the remaining mins at C (and more mins at PF), I think that would be very good.

Right there with you, been saying his name on this board for a while. It’s tricky because despite the Knicks having no use for him, it’s a small salary so making the money work feels difficult with what we have, might be wrong though and not thinking of something.