Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins

[Mavs2021]

After Holmes waived his trade kicker the TPE now stands at $4.954M. The +100k rule is still in effect, right?

Just asking for my friend Jalen "$5.043M" Smith.

Coinicidence?

[speedkilz88]

Tim MacMahon
@espn_macmahon
·
35m
Mavs C Richaun Holmes waived his $1.8 million trade kicker, sources told ESPN. That allowed the Mavs to beef up the offer sheet to Matisse Thybulle, but Portland opted to match. Mavs still have MLE to use and are $10.9M under the first apron/hard cap, per
@BobbyMarks42
.

[cow]

Dude, Claxton is the real deal. Reminds me of Marcus Camby, who was born about 2pm years too early.

Not a bad comp from a physical standpoint.

[KillerLeft]

It could be, but it also means on some level those teams had interest in acquiring him. Something could be revisited.

I think SOMETHING is going on with PJ, or he’d be signed by now. While I’m almost positive Dallas was involved with those conversations at some point, I’m not sure it makes sense for them now, and there are surely other teams interested, too.

With Chicago, I’m almost 100% sure this was in the past, about Vuc, who some were predicting as a dark horse target for Dallas a couple of weeks back. They’re not trading Caruso, that’s for sure. Maaaaaybe a bigger deal, including Hardaway, for LaVine? I don’t see it though.

[cow]

Maaaaaybe a bigger deal, including Hardaway, for LaVine? 

Out of the frying pan, into the fire.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Is there a vet legit starting center that would be available without spending one of those assets?  I'm not aware of one.  

If they don't make another move, I anticipate Holmes starting.  If he is anything like he was before the Sacto shit show, then between Holmes, Maxi and Lively developmental minutes there won't anything left for Powell.  Its possible he is our 4th center.

1. Well…the Mavs were willing to give up an unprotected pick swap to acquire Grant Williams. We don’t really know their appetite when it comes to giving up an asset for a center. We do know (if you believe Stein) that the Mavs are not happy with the current center rotation. 

2. I agree with your second point. Right now, I think Holmes is the starter. I think Powell is back to play the JJ Barea role. He will be a mentor/culture guy and energy guy off the bench. 

3. I think the following is the Mavs preferred rotation at center. 

new guy 24 minutes
Holmes 10-12 minutes
Lively 10-12 minutes

Powell will probably get minutes as needed if Lively or Holmes look bad. Maxi sparingly at center if other team goes small.

4. Obviously you guys will be right if we can’t accomplish number 3 but I think there will be extreme disappointment in the organization.

[F Gump]

Let me offer two items that will mess with the thinking because they lead in opposite ways - but where either or both might be very much in play right now.

1 We are looking for the BEST upgrade possible, and a way to perhaps spend up to the Apron with either some or all of the MLE or by a trade spread. But are the Mavs looking at the numbers for the "next transaction" in a much different way?

If we include the results of the Bullock/GW trade that is still not executed, as well as the signings of Powell, Curry and Exum (all of whom have not signed yet), and with RH waiving his TK, the Mavs have the necessary 14 players and are at about 162.423M. THAT IS ALMOST $3M BELOW THE TAX LINE OF $165.294M, and if the Mavs stay below it, they pay no tax (if they land about 171.5M right below the Apron, the tax bill is about 10M), they help avoid a future repeater tax consequence, as well as Cuban gets fed a share of the tax proceeds (which some estimate will be 20M per team!). Should it surprise us if Cuban is pushing for a tax-free payroll?

If that's a consideration, any moves ahead will need to be salary neutral or only a slight increase. Gotta keep that possibility in mind.

2  Or going the other direction, the Bullock/GW trade is still on hold, and within it the Mavs already have a built-in spread available that can be used elsewhere of about $5.43M (which, if used, would land them at about $169.7M).

If they add McGee to the outgoing, they could take back up to another $11.16M salary) and still land at $167.9M total.

Adding THJ instead of McGee enables an incoming salary up to $23.17M and lands the cap under the Apron at about $169.7M, but in a trade for a center, it doesn't send out a center as it seems they must, and Holmes can't be used in combination in that deal. But if traded by himself RH can take back up to $21.3M salary while Mavs land under the Apron at $169.9M.

FWIW the restrictions on using Holmes as part of multiple players packaged to salary match a more expensive salary does go away on Sept 6.

EDIT NOTE - Post was edited to reflect that Holmes waived his TK.

[cow]

Let me offer two items that will mess with the thinking because they lead in opposite ways - but where either or both might be very much in play right now.

1 We are looking for the BEST upgrade possible, and a way to perhaps spend up to the Apron with either some or all of the MLE or by a trade spread. But are the Mavs looking at the numbers for the "next transaction" in a much different way?

If we include the results of the Bullock/GW trade that is still not executed, as well as Curry and Exum (who have not signed yet), and assume RH got his TK, the Mavs have the necessary 14 players and are at about 164.2M. THAT IS BELOW THE TAX LINE, and if the Mavs stay below it, they pay no tax (if they land about 171.5M right below the Apron, the tax bill is about 10M), they help avoid a future repeater tax consequence, as well as Cuban gets fed a share of the tax proceeds (which some estimate will be 20M per team!). Should it surprise us if Cuban is pushing for a tax-free payroll?

If that's a consideration, any moves ahead will need to be salary neutral. Gotta keep that possibility in mind.

2  Or going the other direction, the Bullock/GW trade is still on hold, and within it the Mavs already have a built-in spread available that can be used elsewhere of about $5.43M (which, if used, would land them at about $169.7M).

If they add McGee to the outgoing, they could take back up to another $11.16M salary) and still land at $169.7M total.

Adding THJ instead of McGee enables an incoming salary up to $23.17M and lands the cap under the Apron at about $171.5M, but in a trade for a center, it doesn't send out a center as it seems they must, and Holmes can't be used in combination in that deal. But if traded by himself RH can take back up to $21.3M salary while Mavs land under the Apron at $171.7M.

FWIW the restrictions on using Holmes as part of multiple players packaged to salary match a more expensive salary does go away on Sept 6.

Holmes waived his TK.

https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status...4334488576

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

I haven’t been mentioning him because I don’t think it’s really possible, but I actually think Siakim is worth coming off one of the young guys and ‘27. Maybe more, if they can free any other draft capital up.

You put Siakim on this team and I believe they’re top 4 in the west. Soooooo much more competent, defensively, and sooooo much more versatile, offensively, than last season.

I don’t see him being happy as the third option in a contract year.

[KillerLeft]

Maxi sparingly at center if other team goes small.

Out of your entire take, this is the part about which I most hope you’re wrong.

If that’s the plan, they need to trade him now, while he has some value to a team who will use him correctly. Not only will he be less effective at the 4, especially as exclusively as you suggest they’d like, but he’ll be taking minutes away from Omax, who everyone agrees is ready to play 20 minutes right out of the gate. Not a great move for a team who wants to get younger and more athletic (also goals they’ve trumpeted publicly), and puzzling for a team who likes Omax enough to find a way back into the draft to get him.

I really think you’re sleeping on Omax, who I’m more excited about than a re-signed Kyrie, but it’s whatever. I also think the Mavs are smart enough to see how valuable Kleber is at center. I will be shocked if he doesn’t play 15 minutes there, at least. I think he’s almost sure to close games there.

But, let’s say you’re right: in my mind, that would mean we can start including Kleber in all these trade ideas, and that might actually move the needle a little.

[F Gump]

Holmes waived his TK.

https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status...4334488576

Thank you. That news apparently broke while I was typing. I will go back and edit the numbers. The concepts still apply, of course.

[mvossman]

1. Well…the Mavs were willing to give up an unprotected pick swap to acquire Grant Williams. We don’t really know their appetite when it comes to giving up an asset for a center. We do know (if you believe Stein) that the Mavs are not happy with the current center rotation. 

2. I agree with your second point. Right now, I think Holmes is the starter. I think Powell is back to play the JJ Barea role. He will be a mentor/culture guy and energy guy off the bench. 

3. I think the following is the Mavs preferred rotation at center. 

new guy 24 minutes
Holmes 10-12 minutes
Lively 10-12 minutes

Powell will probably get minutes as needed if Lively or Holmes look bad. Maxi sparingly at center if other team goes small.

4. Obviously you guys will be right if we can’t accomplish number 3 but I think there will be extreme disappointment in the organization.

I think Lively gets more minutes than that, if not right away then by mid season.  I think Holmes gets more minutes than that if he bounces back.  I think Maxi has been our best defensive center for years and he allows us to go 5 out, which is particularly useful in the playoffs.  There are plenty of center minutes on this roster right now.

[Reunion Mav]

Let me offer two items that will mess with the thinking because they lead in opposite ways - but where either or both might be very much in play right now.

1 We are looking for the BEST upgrade possible, and a way to perhaps spend up to the Apron with either some or all of the MLE or by a trade spread. But are the Mavs looking at the numbers for the "next transaction" in a much different way?

If we include the results of the Bullock/GW trade that is still not executed, as well as Curry and Exum (who have not signed yet), and assume RH got his TK, the Mavs have the necessary 14 players and are at about 164.2M. THAT IS BELOW THE TAX LINE, and if the Mavs stay below it, they pay no tax (if they land about 171.5M right below the Apron, the tax bill is about 10M), they help avoid a future repeater tax consequence, as well as Cuban gets fed a share of the tax proceeds (which some estimate will be 20M per team!). Should it surprise us if Cuban is pushing for a tax-free payroll?

If that's a consideration, any moves ahead will need to be salary neutral. Gotta keep that possibility in mind.

2  Or going the other direction, the Bullock/GW trade is still on hold, and within it the Mavs already have a built-in spread available that can be used elsewhere of about $5.43M (which, if used, would land them at about $169.7M).

If they add McGee to the outgoing, they could take back up to another $11.16M salary) and still land at $169.7M total.

Adding THJ instead of McGee enables an incoming salary up to $23.17M and lands the cap under the Apron at about $171.5M, but in a trade for a center, it doesn't send out a center as it seems they must, and Holmes can't be used in combination in that deal. But if traded by himself RH can take back up to $21.3M salary while Mavs land under the Apron at $171.7M.

FWIW the restrictions on using Holmes as part of multiple players packaged to salary match a more expensive salary does go away on Sept 6.

Totally interesting. Wow!  The player improvement of option 2 would have to be pretty significant and motivating by truly increasing win chances to make it better than option 1. 
Avoiding tax so as not to be 
a repeater does have future value to fans and not just to Mark’s wallet.

[Smitty]

I think Lively gets more minutes than that, if not right away then by mid season.  I think Holmes gets more minutes than that if he bounces back.  I think Maxi has been our best defensive center for years and he allows us to go 5 out, which is particularly useful in the playoffs.  There are plenty of center minutes on this roster right now.

I’d love a world where:

Grant 32/OMax 16 at the 4
Holmes 18/Maxi 18/Lively 12 at the 5

[ItsGoTime]

I think SOMETHING is going on with PJ, or he’d be signed by now. While I’m almost positive Dallas was involved with those conversations at some point, I’m not sure it makes sense for them now, and there are surely other teams interested, too.

With Chicago, I’m almost 100% sure this was in the past, about Vuc, who some were predicting as a dark horse target for Dallas a couple of weeks back. They’re not trading Caruso, that’s for sure. Maaaaaybe a bigger deal, including Hardaway, for LaVine? I don’t see it though.

I was thinking Derozan.

[mvossman]

What purpose?  Maybe because we have 3 Cs in Holmes, McGee, and Powell who aren't starting calibre; two rookies in Lively and OMax; an often injured Maxi who played under 1k minutes last year; with G.Williams being our only legit frontcourt starter.

Context is Holmes is so bad that he was moved only in SAC giving up a FRP in OMax.  Holmes << Bertans

That's not a purpose.  You realize stretch waiving him involves paying his salary/cap over several years.  Teams generally only do that to get under an apron/tax payer.  There is no current situation where we need to dump part of a salary for this current offseason.

[KillerLeft]

I’d love a world where:

Grant 32/OMax 16 at the 4
Holmes 18/Maxi 18/Lively 12 at the 5

If you’re willing to view Powell/Holmes as COMPETITORS for those 18 minutes you list, I think that’s roughly the world you’re living in if the season starts tomorrow.

[mvossman]

If you’re willing to view Powell/Holmes as COMPETITORS for those 18 minutes you list, I think that’s roughly the exact world you’re living in if the season starts tomorrow.

Agreed.  Not really the end of the world folks are making it out to be.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Dude, Claxton is the real deal. Reminds me of Marcus Camby, who was born about 20 years too early.

Ya, he was.  Would dominate today.

[Smitty]

If you’re willing to view Powell/Holmes as COMPETITORS for those 18 minutes you list, I think that’s roughly the world you’re living in if the season starts tomorrow.

I’m much higher on what Holmes can do for this team but I’m aware of the role DP can play. If we’re talking about perfect worlds here, my hope is that Holmes is so good that Powell doesn’t have to play a minute unless injury or rest.

The problem though is that Maxi will be hurt at some point and this team is running out of options at that point.