FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$17.2M to DAL | will indeed start at center

[Kammrath]

I am sorry but I don´t believe you. Why not include other numbers like spot up or handoff defense. Or at least mention that even though both didn´t qualify for most playoff metrics McGee looked really bad in a small sample size.

I. Didn't. Look. At. Those. Numbers. 

@"ItsGoTime" asked for numbers I provided what I could find. 

Please do not accuse me of shit that is completely unfounded, you have NO IDEA what I looked at. I could be lying (I am not and take honesty as a value that I will stand final judgment for), but you are flat out making shit up about things you have no idea about. I am already frustrated by the endless negativity on here and complete lack of patience with letting the offseason actually unfold and be complete. Don't point your frustration at the Mavs at me please.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

I am sorry but I don´t believe you. Why not include other numbers like spot up or handoff defense. Or at least mention that even though both didn´t qualify for most playoff metrics McGee looked really bad in a small sample size.
I don´t have a problem with it. I am happy that you are providing a lot of information but learned that the kind of stuff you post tends to align with your personal opinion or a certain narrative.

If I want read a more critical analysis of the Mavs offseason or a certain signing I just have to look somewhere else or post it myself. Same for stats.

[dirkfansince1998]

I. Didn't. Look. At. Those. Numbers. 

@"ItsGoTime" asked for numbers I provided what I could find. 

Please do not accuse me of shit that is completely unfounded, you have NO IDEA what I looked at. I could be lying (I am not and take honesty as a value that I will stand final judgment for), but you are flat out making shit up about things you have no idea about. I am already frustrated by the endless negativity on here and complete lack of patience with letting the offseason actually unfold and be complete. Don't point your frustration at the Mavs at me please.

The numbers are on the same site. Just one click away. We both know where to look for them. And I didn´t accuse you of anything unless you somehow think that you are free of any biases. Bottom line. You can have your opinion. I can have mine. You can give me your reasons. I don´t have to buy them.

And I am just as frustrated by the endless sunshine pumping and the fickle-minded nature of this board. Dissenting views are a reality. We don´t need to agree on every single topic. And it´s not the end of the world when someone has a more negative outlook.

[Kammrath]

The numbers are on the same site. Just one click away. We both know where to look for them. And I didn´t accuse you of anything unless you somehow think that you are free of any biases. Bottom line. You can have your opinion. I can have mine. You can give me your reasons. I don´t have to buy them.

You called me a liar. You said "I don't believe you" when I flat out told you I posted the only numbers I looked at, first the one triggered by your post on pick and roll (because I wanted to see if your statement was backed up by the synergy numbers) and then the ones @"ItsGoTime" asked for. That's it. 

I am not suggesting I am free from all bias. But you called me a liar. I DID NOT LIE. I ONLY LOOKED AT THOSE NUMBERS AND POSTED THEM.

[Kammrath]

The numbers are on the same site. Just one click away. We both know where to look for them.

They are multiple clicks away (and require scrolling and searching through all the teams) and I wasn't looking for them because I was only searching for what @"ItsGoTime" asked for.

[dirkfansince1998]

You called me a liar. You said "I don't believe you" when I flat out told you I posted the only numbers I looked at, first the one triggered by your post on pick and roll (because I wanted to see if your statement was backed up by the synergy numbers) and then the ones @"ItsGoTime" asked for. That's it. 

I am not suggesting I am free from all bias. But you called me a liar. I DID NOT LIE. I ONLY LOOKED AT THOSE NUMBERS AND POSTED THEM.

I don´t have to believe every single word that is written on this board. I can have my own opinion. Question the agenda of other posters. I don´t think that is forbidden. If that is a problem for you I cannot help you.

[ItsGoTime]

And I am just as frustrated by the endless sunshine pumping and the fickle-minded nature of this board. Dissenting views are a reality. We don´t need to agree on every single topic. And it´s not the end of the world when someone has a more negative outlook.

This has been my crusade for a long time around here.

[cow]

Nothing can stop the #HardyParty hype train.  NOTHING

[Mavs2021]

Repeat after me:

We started Dwight Powell last year.  
We started Dwight Powell last year.
We started Dwight Powell last year.
We started Dwight Powell last year.
We started Dwight Powell last year.

All together now:

We started Dwight Powell last year.
We started Dwight Powell last year.
We started Dwight Powell last year.
We...

I know you hated the signing, it´s just too funny.

[dirkfansince1998]

Only thing I didn´t predict was how quickly people would turn on McShaqtin. Didn´t even last a month.

[mvossman]

Only thing I didn´t predict was how quickly people would turn on McShaqtin. Didn´t even last a month.

The fact that he has been absolutely terrible and wildly worse than he was last season probably has something to do with it.

[SleepingHero]

The fact that he has been absolutely terrible and wildly worse than he was last season probably has something to do with it.

He's regressed 200x. I wanted the PHX version of Mcgee. What we got was G-league version of McGee and that's an insult to G-league players cause at least they hustle.

[KillerLeft]

He's regressed 200x. I wanted the PHX version of Mcgee. What we got was G-league version of McGee and that's an insult to G-league players cause at least they hustle.

I must be nuts, because THIS is the player I expected AND the player I saw in PHX. He's not lazy, he's just SLOW. That tends to happen when you're 34 and over 7 feet tall.

[mvossman]

I must be nuts, because THIS is the player I expected AND the player I saw in PHX. He's not lazy, he's just SLOW. That tends to happen when you're 34 and over 7 feet tall.

To get an impartial point of view, here are what advanced stats say about him this year vs last:

Year     BPM       EPM
This      -6.1       -3.1
Last         .8        1.8

We are not seeing the same player.  He was a useful contributor last season, and he is below replacement (G league) value this season.

[Kammrath]

when you're 34

THAT is the mistake. Banking on a mid 30's player to not regress and to be the same. Banking on Maxi and DFS might prove to be costly mistakes as well. The Mavs need to STOP banking on players 30 and over.

[KillerLeft]

To get an impartial point of view, here are what advanced stats say about him this year vs last:

Year     BPM       EPM
This      -6.1       -3.1
Last         .8        1.8

We are not seeing the same player.  He was a useful contributor last season, and he is below replacement (G league) value this season.

All I know (and care about) is what I watched with my own eyes in the playoff series (the point of the season) when the Mavs beat the Suns, getting him benched in the process. 

I remember thinking "Man, I'm sure glad the Mavs don't have a guy like that in the rotation." And here we are, not even a month in, and it's literally what I expected. I mean perfectly spot on to what I would've predicted. 

This is where stats let you down - when they tell you really stupid things like "McGee is going to be good here."

[mvossman]

All I know (and care about) is what I watched with my own eyes in the playoff series (the point of the season) when the Mavs beat the Suns, getting him benched in the process. 

I remember thinking "Man, I'm sure glad the Mavs don't have a guy like that in the rotation." And here we are, not even a month in, and it's literally what I expected. I mean perfectly spot on to what I would've predicted. 

This is where stats let you down - when they tell you really stupid things like "McGee is going to be good here."

The stats didn't say he was going to be good here.  They say he was ok last year.  As mentioned above, an energy big in their mid 30s is a ticking timebomb to fall of a cliff.  Add to that no monetary motivation as he just got his last contract he will ever get and the result is not surprising.  I hated this signing, particularly the years.  I was hopeful we would get at least some value out of him this first year.  It looks like not even that is happening.

If there is any good to come of this (and Brown and Dragic) its that maybe Kidd will have less influence on GM decisions in the future.

[KillerLeft]

@"mvossman" it's a completely pointless conversation. 

He got his ass played off of the floor BY THE MAVS, and then the MAVS signed him. 

There is no statistic, logic or point of nuanced consideration that will ever remotely approach convincing me that was a good idea.

[Kammrath]

There is no statistic, logic or point of nuanced consideration that will ever remotely approach convincing me that was a good idea.

Y'all are BOTH right.

1) McGee was decent to good for PHX last year as a whole (the stats bear this out)

2) McGee showed visible signs of regression in the playoffs.

And the Mavs were WRONG for signing him to anything above a minimum contract, and most people saw that immediately.

[Chicagojk]

I said I was fine with the signing.  He wasn't on my radar and I would not have targeted him, but I thought it was fine.  I was less thrilled when we got the $ and the years and the promise to start.    But I thought he could provide better rim defense and rebounding in his 15-20 minutes a game.  

I thought the third year would be lost money, I did not expect to be done with him in the first 1o games as a Mavs.   I am already looking at min types or second round draft picks to replace his role.    It is up to McGee to earn minutes.   It was so disappointing to watch his bad play.  Even worse, he was being asked to play 5 minute stretches and he showed very little energy/hustle out there.   That is not an old thing.   It is almost like he signed that contract and has unofficially retired now that he has 15 million coming to him.