TDL Archived: The 2nd Rnd Pick Yankee Swap

[WillE]

For the record, I'm not advocating paying him.  Especially not at this stage in his career.

As long as his physical decline progresses only linearly, I'd say you gotta try to get him. He is a game changing key role player and brings so much to the table, that money should be one of the later questions asked.

Btw: His value ist not only one-dimensional on the defensive end - his offensive playmaking abilities opens up so much flexibility, that such a player can't just be categorically be ignored when the chance to get him presents itself.

[Scott41theMavs]

I really like the idea of the Mavs targeting Crowder. There was a tweet from NBATradeReport that the Mavs were "highly motivated" to add him, but of course the sticking point is not so much what the Suns want in return as the issue of him wanting to be a starter. He certainly wouldn't play more minutes than GK or Reggie, but perhaps they could McGee Jae - make him a nominal starter and then play the other guy more minutes, and make whichever two of the three players are hot that night part of the closing unit.

[omahen]

Crowder

I think Mavs really need another big wing. Last year they were lucky as Utah and Phoenix both had big wings that Mavs were able to hide Luka on (O'Neal, Crowder/Bridges). Things could be much more difficult against teams with big wings as Mavs have only Maxi to fight LeBrons and Kawhis of the world and I am not really sure he is up to the job in the first place.

I agree, the problem is the starting role, as realistically the only way to get it is to push Bullock to the bench and feature Luka-SD-DFS-Crowder-McGee. Bullock would then take more or less all non SD and non DFS minutes, while Green and FN would fight for non Luka minutes. No idea where THJ minutes would come from...

Miami is a team that would kill for Crowder as they have a huge PF hole and I see them creating something with Robinson going to a third team. Something in the light of Robinson to Detroit, Burks to Phoenix and Crowder to Miami (fill in missing salaries and draft compensation). SA with McDermott or Richardson is another option, Orlando with Ross, or Houston with Eric Gordon, which I have read CP3 would really like to see in Phoenix.

[cow]

I really like the idea of the Mavs targeting Crowder. There was a tweet from NBATradeReport that the Mavs were "highly motivated" to add him, but of course the sticking point is not so much what the Suns want in return as the issue of him wanting to be a starter. He certainly wouldn't play more minutes than GK or Reggie, but perhaps they could McGee Jae - make him a nominal starter and then play the other guy more minutes, and make whichever two of the three players are hot that night part of the closing unit.

I'm curious what he'd cost but I think it would be a smart edition if it did nothing else but cut down Dorian's and Reggie's minutes.

[Hypermav]

https://twitter.com/jays4life34/status/1574884886795603968?s=20&t=tZwPBwVNSCPqWwMjJ5KiiQ

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...2945780766

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...2476086273

[Mapka]

Draymond is looking for a paycheck that GS may not give him. In that pursuit, he loves everyone, frankly.

It's a huge salary for a player whose contribution is primarily on the defensive end. DFS is getting 13M for the same sort of role here, which is in line with how defense-first guys typically get paid, and DG wants 30M or more.

Bam is getting the same for the same role, and Gorbert gets even more.

[KillerLeft]

Bam is getting the same for the same role, and Gorbert gets even more.

I don't think the risk is in paying him the money he's currently getting. In his prime, Green was at least as impactful as either of those guys you mention, perhaps more. He still offers tremendous value, on court and in the locker room. 

But, in recent years he has been unavailable through injury a fair amount, and when he's available, there have been signs of decline here and there. 

What people are worried about is that he's obviously angling for the NEXT big, guaranteed contract. The team who pays that might rue their decision pretty quickly. 

I'd like to add that when volatile guys like Green (who you LOVE to have when things are going well) start to decline but are reluctant to view themselves as declining players, uncomfortable situations can arise pretty easily. I loooove Green, but I can easily see his next stop not being a pleasant one for anyone.

[cow]

Not for nothing but he has a player option on his current deal after this year at 27.5 million and a 15% trade kicker.

[Scott41theMavs]

Not for nothing but he has a player option on his current deal after this year at 27.5 million and a 15% trade kicker.

Meh. Bertans, Powell, and a second. I get all of the problems, but it at least makes the team better in the short term.

[cow]

Meh. Bertans, Powell, and a second. I get all of the problems, but it at least makes the team better in the short term.

I could see GSW doing him a solid and sending him to a location he prefers but I don't see them taking back long term salary, especially if the player has negative trade value.  You'd also need to be comfortable with giving him an extension.  He'll be 33 next season.

[mvossman]

Meh. Bertans, Powell, and a second. I get all of the problems, but it at least makes the team better in the short term.

I don't think that would be near enough to get him.  That package would require at least a first and probably more.

[KillerLeft]

I don't think that would be near enough to get him.  That package would require at least a first and probably more.

Right. If this was an auction for the last 1-2 years of his current contract and then maybe the chance to sign him at around Kleber money for his last contract, that would be one thing. 

In reality, Green wants another BIG deal after this one, GS has already decided they don't want any part of that (for good, informed reasons) and that's why we're even talking about this. Both sides are looking around for a solution before things get ugly. Green is looking for a team willing to make a significant and long investment in him and GS is hoping that team will be willing to pay a trade price worthy of a player like that. 

As much as I'd like to see him with Luka now, in like three weeks, this just doesn't fit the Mavs' situation from a timeline perspective.

[KillerLeft]

I hate to keep beating this dead horse, but the opportunity staring Dallas in the face is the tear-down going on in UTAH. Bogdanovich already slipped past them, but Clarkson and Conley are still up for grabs. 

These are players used to playing on winning teams who know and can do things that contribute to winning that can help the Mavs immediately and potentially speed up this process in ways we'd never see. 

There are always players available in trade, but a team that perennially finishes with a higher seed than your own deciding to blow themselves up and just shoot their experienced players out in any direction actually doesn't happen every year.

Imo, it's a great chance to get a little older (in the good sense).

[cow]

I hate to keep beating this dead horse, but the opportunity staring Dallas in the face is the tear-down going on in UTAH. Bogdanovich already slipped past them, but Clarkson and Conley are still up for grabs. 

These are players used to playing on winning teams who know and can do things that contribute to winning that can help the Mavs immediately and potentially speed up this process in ways we'd never see. 

There are always players available in trade, but a team that perennially finishes with a higher seed than your own deciding to blow themselves up and just shoot their experienced players out in any direction actually doesn't happen every year.

Imo, it's a great chance to get a little older (in the good sense).

I'd love Clarkson but it's a tough match.  He's expiring so you'd probably need to be willing to invest long term if you are going to give up an asset to get him.  I like his on court skillset much more than THJ but let's call them similar players so his new deal would probably look a whole lot like what THJ's contract.  I also think Utah could get a FRP for him from a contender.  We don't really have one to offer easily.  And if you get Clarkson, I think you need to move Tim.

Conley would be useful as well here but salary matching is going to be tough.  If Utah wants to get rid of Conley, they probably don't want long term salary back.  That rules out THJ.  You could do Powell + Bullock but I don't think the Mavs want to ditch Reggie.  Maybe as you approach the deadline and if Wood isn't working out, you flip Wood + Powell?

I'd love either or both, I just don't see a path that satisfies both sides.

[KillerLeft]

I'd love either or both, I just don't see a path that satisfies both sides.

Well, for me, that part of the situation is what's exciting. Part of what would "satisfy" Utah, imo, is to get those guys out of town. They're looking to hit reset, and the players don't want to be around reminiscing about "last year," they want to be in a winning situation. Likewise, I doubt the team wants negative vibes like that around. I truly believe it's a rare and unique opportunity.

I've actually read that they wouldn't mind keeping Conley around to oversee the start of the next group's chemistry. It would surprise me if he's into that, but I suppose it's possible.

[cow]

Well, for me, that part of the situation is what's exciting. Part of what would "satisfy" Utah, imo, is to get those guys out of town. They're looking to hit reset, and the players don't want to be around reminiscing about "last year," they want to be in a winning situation. Likewise, I doubt the team wants negative vibes like that around. I truly believe it's a rare and unique opportunity.

I've actually read that they wouldn't mind keeping Conley around to oversee the start of the next group's chemistry. It would surprise me if he's into that, but I suppose it's possible.

I think our best hope would be that Utah would want to get off of Conley's money next year and then you take both he and Clarkson, but then we just don't have the expiring contracts to satisfy Utah's needs.  

If they value chemistry, that might make THJ more attractive combined with the structure of his contract.  THJ + Powell would save them 6 million this year, 6 million next year, and then they'd be on the hook for the last year of THJ at 16 million.  There is probably some value in that expiring deal.  Does that and a few SRPs get a deal done?  Doubtful.

There are tax implications for the Mavs with that trade, I think.

[mvossman]

I'd love Clarkson but it's a tough match.  He's expiring so you'd probably need to be willing to invest long term if you are going to give up an asset to get him.  I like his on court skillset much more than THJ but let's call them similar players so his new deal would probably look a whole lot like what THJ's contract.  I also think Utah could get a FRP for him from a contender.  We don't really have one to offer easily.  And if you get Clarkson, I think you need to move Tim.

Conley would be useful as well here but salary matching is going to be tough.  If Utah wants to get rid of Conley, they probably don't want long term salary back.  That rules out THJ.  You could do Powell + Bullock but I don't think the Mavs want to ditch Reggie.  Maybe as you approach the deadline and if Wood isn't working out, you flip Wood + Powell?

I'd love either or both, I just don't see a path that satisfies both sides.

I think somebody already came up with a great suggestion on Conley.  It involved another team (I think Detroit) with Timmy going their and Conley coming here.  I think we might be giving up Green in that scenario.  I would do that.

Based on the return for Bojan, it might only take Powell + Green to get Clarkson (an expiring and a young not great prospect).  I would probably do that as well, but things get really crowded in that scenario.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...0092177409