Poll: Who sits if Wood earns a starting spot?
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Reggie Bullock
15.22%
7 15.22%
Javale McGee
56.52%
26 56.52%
Spencer Dinwiddie
28.26%
13 28.26%
Total 46 vote(s) 100%
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ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal?
(09-23-2022, 05:46 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: Damnit.

I love Frank but not when he’s dribbling a basketball.

He dribbles pretty well.  Passing and shooting on the other hand...
(09-23-2022, 11:26 PM)cow Wrote: He dribbles pretty well.  Passing and shooting on the other hand...
What I saw was confidence and decisiveness was his issue. He’d dribble himself into a spot then not know what to do with it. Very similar to Green and his shot.
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(09-24-2022, 09:44 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: What I saw was confidence and decisiveness was his issue. He’d dribble himself into a spot then not know what to do with it. Very similar to Green and his shot.

As I was reading this, I thought, "Sounds like Green to me," and then I reached the end of your post.
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(09-23-2022, 10:55 PM)F Gump Wrote: SOMEONE is going to be needed and used as a backup PG, the 3rd guy. It's inevitable. If FN is ever going to learn to be a playmaker as well as a defender, he's being put in an ideal cocoon to learn. I am as leery as the next guy, but they did see a little something last season, so it's not unreasonable to try him.

Nor is it all that risky. In normal games and situations, the 3rd guy will ALWAYS be on the floor with either Luka or SD doing the vast majority of the playmaking, so won't have to be depended on for a large degree of that until and unless he's ready.


Depends on what you mean by "3rd guy." I took the meaning to be 3rd PG, which I assume is actually the 4th guard, playing behind Luka, Dinwiddie AND Hardaway. Essentially Ntilikina's role from last season with Burke's sporadic minutes added in going forward. That's not even as risky as what I think you might be suggesting. 

If he's always on the floor with Luka/Dinwiddie, sure. He did catch and shoot a bit better than I expected last season, and there's reason to hope he's been working to improve even more this summer, so I'm game to give that a shot. I like the player. 

But, to couch him as a "backup PG"...even if, like I think, they're just using that term the way they might have when discussing Burke at this time last season, and not the way they would've described Brunson going into the season (before he became a starter), that does feel like risk to me. If/when Dinwiddie or Luka miss time, if Ntilikina is the 3rd PG, he absolutely will be handling the ball without one of the others on the floor with him.

I'm all about giving Ntilikina chances to find a role, I'm just worried about depending on him to fill this one competently. It's not even that I'm sure he can't. It's just the word "depending" that freaks me out.
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This is going to be shocking, but I have adopted a stance of optimism in regards to Josh Green headed into the season.
"The Dallas Mavericks must do everything they can to get Olivier-Maxence Prosper."
- IamDougieFresh (05-20-2023, 04:39 AM)
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(09-24-2022, 01:20 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: This is going to be shocking, but I have adopted a stance of optimism in regards to Josh Green headed into the season.

Care to share what you've been drinking that targeted the brain cells holding the memory of his playoff performance?
(09-24-2022, 01:20 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: This is going to be shocking, but I have adopted a stance of optimism in regards to Josh Green headed into the season.

I am cautiously optimistic. or at least very open to the idea, that JG will take a big step forward this year. I agree we could be sleeping on him as we try to figure out the Mavs potential.

There are realities about him we choose to ignore (or maybe some don't realize them) ...
1 When drafted, he was very raw and underdeveloped. He came from Australia and his single year of college was cut short by the Covid mess.
2 The Mavs drafted him mostly on athleticism and its potential imo. We have seen that at times, and his gifts are obvious.
3 His 1st NBA year was an awful experience for a raw player -- covid year, no camp, everyone in and out of the lineup, shutdowns, practices were rare. To me it was a lost year, no more NBA-relevant for an undeveloped guy than a year in GL or still in college. 
4 If we ignore that 1st season and look at last season as if he was just then a rookie being brought along (and, for practical purposes, that's pretty much what it was), the 2022 playoffs pale in relation to the solid season he had for a "rookie." And he's still super young.
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Raw is one thing but refusing to shoot is another.  Give me bricks and air balls all day lone over that.  In principle I like the idea of drafting a gifted athlete, which Josh certainly is but it was counter to what the Mavericks have typically done in wanting more polished players.  I think Josh would look a whole lot different if he were draft by someone like the Raptors.
(09-25-2022, 04:56 AM)cow Wrote: Raw is one thing but refusing to shoot is another.  Give me bricks and air balls all day lone over that. 


Yes, in today's game there's almost nothing worse than a guy who passes up open shots. This is the one silver lining with Brunson being gone, imho.
(09-25-2022, 07:12 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Yes, in today's game there's almost nothing worse than a guy who passes up open shots. This is the one silver lining with Brunson being gone, imho.

Given the choice between a player who's reluctant to shoot, and a player who's a black hole, give me the former 10 times out of 10.
(09-25-2022, 09:01 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: Given the choice between a player who's reluctant to shoot, and a player who's a black hole, give me the former 10 times out of 10.


Ben Simmons or Russell Westbrook. I see your point.
I am very optimistic of Josh Green. 

As opposed to his rookie year where I can see he doesn't want to shoot at all, last season I saw a player who is willing to shoot, and he shot it when he was open most times. But year 3 of JG shouldn't just be the improvement of JG's 3 point shot, it should be his overall offense. JG must get his own un-assisted. And IMHo, JG is one of the few Mavs players who can. We just don't see him get his very often, but JG can score on his own.

If the Mavs aren't getting an additional playmaker, it falls on JG, FN, Dorsey and Hardy to be the quasi-playmakers. Of the 4, Dorsey could be the best shooter, but JG blows him out of the water in finding open team mates, the Mavs need someone with that talent. JG's dribble isn't advance as a PG but his dribble is deceptively good. I am not saying JG should be the third PG but, I would want JG to be on the court when both Luka and Dinwiddie is off the court. At least one can hope for ball movement when JG's in there.
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(09-25-2022, 11:35 PM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: I am very optimistic of Josh Green. 

As opposed to his rookie year where I can see he doesn't want to shoot at all, last season I saw a player who is willing to shoot, and he shot it when he was open most times. But year 3 of JG shouldn't just be the improvement of JG's 3 point shot, it should be his overall offense. JG must get his own un-assisted. And IMHo, JG is one of the few Mavs players who can. We just don't see him get his very often, but JG can score on his own.

If the Mavs aren't getting an additional playmaker, it falls on JG, FN, Dorsey and Hardy to be the quasi-playmakers. Of the 4, Dorsey could be the best shooter, but JG blows him out of the water in finding open team mates, the Mavs need someone with that talent. JG's dribble isn't advance as a PG but his dribble is deceptively good. I am not saying JG should be the third PG but, I would want JG to be on the court when both Luka and Dinwiddie is off the court. At least one can hope for ball movement when JG's in there.

Well...I could be wrong, but I don't think we're getting another playmaker.  I agree with your general overall assessment and list of quasi-playmakers.  Good stuff!  JG took a hit in confidence his first year under a different coach.  I consider his second year under Kidd to be the first year that he got any kind of a fair shot.  I expect JG to make good strides in performance this year.
The year is 2037. Players’ careers have been extended due to new medical technology. Aliens have come and stole Jae Crowder’s talent. He is averaging 0.6 points 0.9 boards and .02 assists in 48 minutes per game. The remnants of Mark Cuban - a brain in a jar, directs his puppet GM to call the Seattle SuperSonics to finally offer Dwight for Jae. Team owner, GM and supreme leader of the Sonics - Bezos laughs and hangs up the phone. Dan and Kam make a new post about how Dwight should be starting based on a “revolutionary” new advanced stat developed by chimps. Luka has won his 10th title in a row for the Lakers. The Mavs have drafted yet another generational talent, but the best they can do is pair him with a laboratory clone of JET.
"The Dallas Mavericks must do everything they can to get Olivier-Maxence Prosper."
- IamDougieFresh (05-20-2023, 04:39 AM)
I don´t agree with FG often, but he must have been the earliest to correctly assess that we are done for the summer and that Cuban is simply just cheap now.

We have a decade of evidence and we refuse to accept the reality.

Outside of a minimum salary signing or a negative spending trade nothing will happen. With our talent pool finding a talent upgrade with a simultanious salary relief is virtually impossible to pull off.
(09-26-2022, 05:19 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: I don´t agree with FG often, but he must have been the earliest to correctly assess that we are done for the summer and that Cuban is simply just cheap now.

We have a decade of evidence and we refuse to accept the reality.

Outside of a minimum salary signing or a negative spending trade nothing will happen. With our talent pool finding a talent upgrade with a simultanious salary relief is virtually impossible to pull off.

I agree that FG was the first to identify the money saving opportunity that exists by running a 14 man roster plus two-ways plus 10 days until rosters have to be set.  It doesn’t mean the team won’t carry a 15th player into the playoffs, but there is is a substantial tax savings to not carrying even a minimum salary until you have to.

Whether it is cheap or strategic is debatable.  A number of teams are likely to carry 14 players this season.  It is an unintended consequence of the addition of two-way players and may have to be addressed in the upcoming CBA.  The players thought the two-way rule would add opportunities to be in the NBA.  But it may just trade 60 cheap jobs for maybe a dozen veteran minimum jobs that pay much much more.

We as Mav fans are hyper sensitive to this because we think we are missing a PG.  The issue isn’t the 15th player as a 3rd PG should probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of our 10th-12th man.  If we had that guy and had say Pinson and Dorsey as two-ways, I suspect there would be much less hand wringing about not filling the 15th slot.
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(09-25-2022, 02:42 AM)F Gump Wrote: I am cautiously optimistic. or at least very open to the idea, that JG will take a big step forward this year. I agree we could be sleeping on him as we try to figure out the Mavs potential.

There are realities about him we choose to ignore (or maybe some don't realize them) ...
1 When drafted, he was very raw and underdeveloped. He came from Australia and his single year of college was cut short by the Covid mess.
2 The Mavs drafted him mostly on athleticism and its potential imo. We have seen that at times, and his gifts are obvious.
3 His 1st NBA year was an awful experience for a raw player -- covid year, no camp, everyone in and out of the lineup, shutdowns, practices were rare. To me it was a lost year, no more NBA-relevant for an undeveloped guy than a year in GL or still in college. 
4 If we ignore that 1st season and look at last season as if he was just then a rookie being brought along (and, for practical purposes, that's pretty much what it was), the 2022 playoffs pale in relation to the solid season he had for a "rookie." And he's still super young.

Totally agree.  This was the point I tried to make last season when comparing Green’s second season (his de facto rookie year IMHO) to Iguodala’s early years.  On a per minute basis JG-2 vs AI-Rookie shows well for Green.  They are the same age if you look at it this way and if one buys the argument you made about the value of Green’s rookie season, they are essentially the same level of experience.

JG-2 compared to AI-2 isn’t that far off except for assists.  But, it isn’t really fair given AI had 164 games under his belt as a starter at that point and Green had a total mess of a rookie year (and much less college experience).

I’m not saying Green is going to be AI.  He doesn’t have to be (yet) on this team.  But if he can be a positive on-court (which he’s be 4.0 and 3.5 his two seasons) and be similarly productive on a per-minute basis, he is something worth waiting a little longer on.
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(09-26-2022, 08:52 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: We as Mav fans are hyper sensitive to this because we think we are missing a PG.  The issue isn’t the 15th player as a 3rd PG should probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of our 10th-12th man.  If we had that guy and had say Pinson and Dorsey as two-ways, I suspect there would be much less hand wringing about not filling the 15th slot.


Exactamundo
(09-26-2022, 08:52 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: The issue isn’t the 15th player as a 3rd PG should probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of our 10th-12th man.
The issue I’ve read from the vocal ones about it is that the “3rd PG” isn’t gonna be close to the 2nd best player on the team. Some have come down a bit from that accepting SD as the 2nd PG on the floor, but most of those want that 3rd PG to be the 6-8th player (well, basically a starter coming off the bench). 

This is all due to the offense being “unlocked” when we brought SD in. The offense wasn’t unlocked by getting a player off the team that disrupted what the team wanted to do and the demand he put on doing things his way. It wasn’t about the huge collective sigh of relief coming from all players involved, including from the inbound players who had a mess of their own they had to deal with on their previous team. 

The further time goes on and FO thoughts are revealed the more credence to the forethought that they might not be able to retain JB after all and needed a good ball handler to replace him. All that Cuban bravado about us being able to easily sign JB couldn’t have been Cuban doing JB a solid by making NYK offer him the highest possible salary they could acquire. There’s no evidence whatsoever that would point us to him helping a player under his wing at the time, with the added bonus of sticking it to the NYKs. 

I just think the accepted truth by some around here isn’t necessarily the actual truth. Time will tell us more about the truth than anything. It will certainly tell us more of the truth about how THIS year’s assembled team will play, much moreso than the thoughts we type out right now in the moment without a single bit of gameplay viewed.
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I don’t think of our 3rd PG as a #10 or 12 guy because the Mavs convinced me last year that they are much better with 2 of em on the court at all times. If I give that idea up, the roster looks perfectly balanced as is. 

Doncic      Dinwiddie   Hardy  
Bullock      Ntilikina      Dorsey        
F-Smith     Hardaway  Green          
Wood         Kleber        Bertans
McGee       Powell        Bingham


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