ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal?

[KillerLeft]

Of course, there are probably 20 other teams trying to play this game.  Did anyone else see the Stein mention that IF there is a Mitchell to NY deal that the Knicks might pursue a Randle for Westbrook deal to clear Randle?

Doesn't surprise me a bit. It would be a rough decision by the Lakers, imo.

[DanSchwartzgan]

IF you are a tea leaf reader, St. Jean was on the Locked On podcast with Isaac today.  He’ll make you feel good about McGee and Wood and the plan going forward on how those two might fit together or with Maxi or with any number of lineups that the team will experiment with between now and the playoffs.  He also talks extensively about what they were trying to accomplish with Hardy in SL.

Isaac asks point blank if we have enough playmaking w/o Brunson.  You get the usual nice comments about Jalen and the company line (though with some passion behind it) about THJ being able to replace some of the “offensive’ load carried by Brunson.  As to playmaking specifically, he thinks it may need to be a by-committee thing and goes into some detail about how Frank might work with an O centered around Wood or run plays designed to get Hardaway a shot.  In other words, be a game manager who gets more talented offensive players the looks they need.  

Frank was the first and most detailed piece of the explanation of how this might work.  He then talked briefly about having some hope Green might develop into a passer over time and the same with Hardy.  Thought it interesting that he had such a well thought out answer for Frank.  Doesn’t mean there isn’t a place for Green, but for the specific role Isaac asked about, it seems Frank might be first in line.  He, THJ, Wood and Maxi can play four spots and if Frank can’t get us into sets against subs, then any of the non-McGee starters could play alongside that group.  That obviously includes playmakers (Luka and SD).  It could also include wings like DFS and Reggie.  Or, it could just be that Green gets some run with that group.

[Tyler]

BTW II, Utah is going to end up with the Dallas 2023 in a Mitchell trade.  Rather than giving up 2025, I wonder if Utah would be interested in swapping protected 2023 for unprotected 2027.

Interesting idea, but personally I'd rather see what we could get for removing the protections on the 23 pick. Maybe it's enough to get a useful Utah vet. Or maybe it's just a future 2nd since the Jazz will have so many 1sts. But I'd prefer to rip the Stepien bandaid off sooner than later.

[KillerLeft]

Isaac asks point blank if we have enough playmaking w/o Brunson.  You get the usual nice comments about Jalen and the company line (though with some passion behind it) about THJ being able to replace some of the “offensive’ load carried by Brunson.  As to playmaking specifically, he thinks it may need to be a by-committee thing and goes into some detail about how Frank might work with an O centered around Wood or run plays designed to get Hardaway a shot.  In other words, be a game manager who gets more talented offensive players the looks they need.  

Frank was the first and most detailed piece of the explanation of how this might work.  He then talked briefly about having some hope Green might develop into a passer over time and the same with Hardy.  Thought it interesting that he had such a well thought out answer for Frank.  Doesn’t mean there isn’t a place for Green, but for the specific role Isaac asked about, it seems Frank might be first in line.  He, THJ, Wood and Maxi can play four spots and if Frank can’t get us into sets against subs, then any of the non-McGee starters could play alongside that group.  That obviously includes playmakers (Luka and SD).  It could also include wings like DFS and Reggie.  Or, it could just be that Green gets some run with that group.

Yeah, I heard this. I was glad they're confident of how they could make it work, but in the back of my head the whole time I was hoping this guy was on the outside of their roster plans a bit. 

I'm really worried that they're done. The worry is growing by the day.

[Mavs2021]

BTW, I saw a Bleacher report article about crazy trades that could work.  They had Lakers getting Conley, Bojan, and Beasley for Westbrook and Talen Horton tucker, plus two future Lakers firsts.   I don't expectthis to happen, but I think that is interesting for both teams.   

If that´s on the menu I want the Mavs to counter offer THJ + Dinwiddie + Bertans + Bullock or Kleber.

The Knicks will give you Fournier for free for Powell´s expiring contract, which replaces THJ´s total production. Westbrook equals Dinwiddie´s production. Bertans is useless and then you have two future Lakers 1st round picks(unprotected) to replace Bullock, all while getting off literally every long-term contract expect Luka+DFS. Do the Lakers even have two future 1sts? I thought they are all in New Orleans.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Interesting idea, but personally I'd rather see what we could get for removing the protections on the 23 pick. Maybe it's enough to get a useful Utah vet. Or maybe it's just a future 2nd since the Jazz will have so many 1sts. But I'd prefer to rip the Stepien bandaid off sooner than later.

I don’t disagree with the sentiment.  For me, it is a matter of-degree.

In other words, are there worthwhile deals that are just Powell plus release of protection?  Ok, what about that plus Frank or Green?  Ok, what about some of that plus 2025?  OK, if not 2025, how about 2027 and we get 2023 back?  So, there is a hierarchy of outgoing deals, but can we find an incoming player or players who line up well from a talent and roster construction standpoint and doesn’t ruin other longer term plans?

The other side of this is how willing are we to stand pat.  Let’s say it is some released PG on a vet min or a trade where we have to add an asset to Powell.  I think we are one pretty good player away from being Top 4 in the west again.  I don’t think that one player is Kemba on a minimum, but what I’m willing to add to Powell depends on what that alternative player is and what their contract situation is.

[dirkfansince1998]

The player I wanted most on the Jazz was ONeal and he’s gone in a package we could have done. Sucks.

Would you have matched the Nets offer? Future first or at least this years pick (meaning that we don´t get the Wood trade).

[ItsGoTime]

Would you have matched the Nets offer? Future first or at least this years pick (meaning that we don´t get the Wood trade).

I thought it was a second when I typed it. Went back and saw it was a first and deleted the post. Interesting question though. Wood or ONeal.

[dirkfansince1998]

I thought it was a second when I typed it. Went back and saw it was a first and deleted the post. Interesting question though. Wood or ONeal.

O´Neal as the missing 3&D SF/PF in a Brunston stays scenario. Wood in the current situation. Not exactly a ballhandler or playmaker but on paper he offers similar offensive production.

[KillerLeft]

I think the implication, if you take St. Jean’s words as gospel, is that Hardaway will be in rotation for minutes at the 2 and the 3, meaning that the 3rd ball-handler role might be much smaller than we have been assuming. I guess the thinking might be that sometimes Green will get minutes (THJ at guard) and other times Ntilikina will get minutes (THJ at the 3). I assume this will be matchup driven, and based on how the guys are performing to an extent.

In other words, we are circling the realization that this off-season has been an almost complete failure.

---

And I’ll say it again: I find the idea that Powell will be on the roster and NOT in the everyday rotation highly suspect.

[Chicagojk]

I think the implication, if you take St. Jean’s words as gospel, is that Hardaway will be in rotation for minutes at the 2 and the 3, meaning that the 3rd ball-handler role might be much smaller than we have been assuming. I guess the thinking might be that sometimes Green will get minutes (THJ at guard) and other times Ntilikina will get minutes (THJ at the 3). I assume this will be matchup driven, and based on how the guys are performing to an extent.

In other words, we are circling the realization that this off-season has been an almost complete failure.

---

And I’ll say it again: I find the idea that Powell will be on the roster and NOT in the everyday rotation highly suspect.

It is not looking promising.   I still believe smart organizations who are disciplined can improve on the edges.   The Clippers found Reggie Jackson and re-habbed him.   They they got Batum for nothing.   they also found Zubac for very little.  These are the type of moves I want to see for Dallas.   They may be tough to find out there now.   One hope I have is Kidd really gave players freedom and we saw a lot of growth this year from several players.   Hopefully they target those types of players who fit in well here and where we will get their best ball.

[Chicagojk]

I wouldn't want them as the last spot, but if we had an extra spot two guys who might be interesting gambles are Jarrett Culver and Yuta Watanabe.  Both are solid on defense.  Culver can't shoot but can handle the ball ok.

[F Gump]

I think the implication, if you take St. Jean’s words as gospel, is that Hardaway will be in rotation for minutes at the 2 and the 3, meaning that the 3rd ball-handler role might be much smaller than we have been assuming. I guess the thinking might be that sometimes Green will get minutes (THJ at guard) and other times Ntilikina will get minutes (THJ at the 3). I assume this will be matchup driven, and based on how the guys are performing to an extent.

I take St Jean's words as straightforward, but within the context of "This is the roster. Where are your backup minutes coming from, behind Luka and SD?" As a coach, you don't think in terms of what alterations need to be made to the roster, but instead of how to make this set of players be the best they can be. You have what you are given, and you have to figure it out from there.  

So he did, offering a GREAT reply for what will happen with THIS roster. It made sense. In fact, he admitted 'We don't have that backup guy' so he spoke to how they would work around the problem by committee. He's a coach, and it was a coach's reply.

But it doesn't speak to what they might need to do to improve the roster. I think that's what Harris was aiming for, but it was a lousy question being asked of the wrong guy, and the answer was honest for a coach but had nothing to do with altering the mix, predictably. Don't take it for something it's not.

[KillerLeft]

I take St Jean's words as straightforward, but within the context of "This is the roster. Where are your backup minutes coming from, behind Luka and SD?" As a coach, you don't think in terms of what alterations need to be made to the roster, but instead of how to make this set of players be the best they can be. You have what you are given, and you have to figure it out from there.  

So he did, offering a GREAT reply for what will happen with THIS roster. It made sense. In fact, he admitted 'We don't have that backup guy' so he spoke to how they would work around the problem by committee. He's a coach, and it was a coach's reply.

But it doesn't speak to what they might need to do to improve the roster. Don't take it for something it's not.

As I said earlier, your take on his words is my hope.

[IamDougieFresh]

I had a dream where we weren’t a poverty franchise and traded for Beal. Then I woke up and remembered we had no assets and a shit front office that has been elevated by 2 GOATs.

[F Gump]

Then I woke up and remembered we had no assets and a shit front office that has been elevated by 2 GOATs.

Powell is obviously one you were thinking of! Who else???

[IamDougieFresh]

Powell is obviously one you were thinking of! Who else???

Satnam

[Chicagojk]

I don't get it. You're not really advocating for Ntilinka being played as a point guard, are you? Guarding one, SURE! But playing that actual position? If he could do that, he'd still be in NY, playing on a healthy extension by now. It was obvious by his 3rd or 4th game here that he didn't have that in him.

Yeah Frank is never going to be an above average creator in the nba.  Just not his strong suit.  He probably isnt here past this year but he has a chance.  If he does stick here, I like him playing with two bigger creators.  That could be the role for Frank as a point guard defending 3 and D guy type. He still needs to grow into that role but that is the role he needs to master.

[ThisIStheYear]

Yeah Frank is never going to be an above average creator in the nba.  Just not his strong suit.  He probably isnt here past this year but he has a chance.  If he does stick here, I like him playing with two bigger creators.  That could be the role for Frank as a point guard defending 3 and D guy type. He still needs to grow into that role but that is the role he needs to master.

Above average creator?  He’s never even going to be below average. His ceiling as a creator and ball handler is atrocious.  But I agree, he’s a good defender and looks like he could develop a good three point shot, as long as he’s only taking uncontested ones.  He just needs to master the discipline to avoid all other basketball actions.  He took some positive steps in that direction during the playoffs. He has potential to be a viable 9th or 10th man.

[ItsGoTime]

Saw a successful 3 team trade proposal that exchanged THJ for Seth Curry. Would you do it?