NEWS: China upset w/ NBA...NBA will lose $400 million

[LifeAquatic]

Just an observation about our world:

That includes democracy, communism, humanity, the planet, morality, life, etc. It is REALLY simple and to claim anything else is to try and fool ourselves. Democracy, communism, or any other political ideology have ultimately been about being a vehicle for the flow of $$$ and nothing else. 

I'm sure this is true and I wish we could remove money from our own political processes as well. I'm aware this demonstrates the overall problem with China for our country and the world (as they autocratic communists despite allowing some financial freedom to their people).

But, the NBA should also be aware of how this looks to their fans in the US and the rest of the western democratic world, where I would wager the overwhelming response to China on cancelling G League games with NBA franchises is best described by Clint Eastwood..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z32FFmcjkyM

[fifteenth]

Tough issue since the communist government in China has been brutal and oppressive for decades AND British treatment of China (including the Opium Wars and taking of Hong Kong) was deplorable. The Nets Owner's comments that the Opium Wars and taking of Hong Kong by Britain contributed to China's isolationism and paranoia about foreign intervention is valid. It's not just B.S. That of course doesn't make China's brutality and oppression right. But nothing wrong with acknowledging that this is complicated stuff.

[Bonk]

Tough issue since the communist government in China has been brutal and oppressive for decades AND British treatment of China (including the Opium Wars and taking of Hong Kong) was deplorable. The Nets Owner's comments that the Opium Wars and taking of Hong Kong by Britain contributed to China's isolationism and paranoia about foreign intervention is valid. It's not just B.S. That of course doesn't make China's brutality and oppression right. But nothing wrong with acknowledging that this is complicated stuff.

I get the past history, but really, it's not that complicated on the current issue. Morey was correct on Hong Kong, the NBA looks bad on this, period.

[fifteenth]

Tough issue since the communist government in China has been brutal and oppressive for decades AND British treatment of China (including the Opium Wars and taking of Hong Kong) was deplorable. The Nets Owner's comments that the Opium Wars and taking of Hong Kong by Britain contributed to China's isolationism and paranoia about foreign intervention is valid. It's not just B.S. That of course doesn't make China's brutality and oppression right. But nothing wrong with acknowledging that this is complicated stuff.

I get the past history, but really, it's not that complicated on the current issue. Morey was correct on Hong Kong, the NBA looks bad on this, period.

Yeah, I agree, I want the folks in Hong Kong to be able to live free lives. In fact, I want that for all of China.  My comment that you responded to was inspired by all of the "suck it" responses to the Nets Owner's tweet.

[SleepingHero]

Tough issue since the communist government in China has been brutal and oppressive for decades AND British treatment of China (including the Opium Wars and taking of Hong Kong) was deplorable. The Nets Owner's comments that the Opium Wars and taking of Hong Kong by Britain contributed to China's isolationism and paranoia about foreign intervention is valid. It's not just B.S. That of course doesn't make China's brutality and oppression right. But nothing wrong with acknowledging that this is complicated stuff.

I acknowledge that the history for China complicates the issue and plays a role in their paranoia as you put it (same reason why many americans are inherently distrusting of Muslim men and women on planes after 9/11) 

However, Tsai's statement is automatically taking the position that the Chinese government is right in this issue, and that the people of HK are separatists bent on dividing the mainland, and given their history it is understandable why the people of China is reacting so strongly against the people of Hong Kong as Tsai said. 

Yet Tsai conveniently forgets that Hong Kong was given rights when the UK gave control of Hong Kong back to China. Rights that have been slowly stripped away under their Communist regime. Not to mention the countless human rights violations and IP crimes China has committed, Tsai also loves to omit in his history lesson the millions of innocent civilians that have been slaughtered under the current Chinese regime in the name of censorship and ideological culling.  

A lot can be debated about whether it's moral to do business with China given their government is antithetical to American principles, and whether it was right to open China up in the 70's to allow them to become this powerhouse. But its too late to now and their economy is tied to ours. It's a delicate situation to navigate given the amount of $$$$ at stake here for the NBA. However, I draw a line when a communist country thinks it can strong arm an american citizen into submission for exercising his right to comment on an issue. 
Anyone defending the Chinese government over their actions in this case (Silver, Tilman, Tsai) in their support for censorship can in fact suck it.

[dirkfansince1998]

Tough issue since the communist government in China has been brutal and oppressive for decades AND British treatment of China (including the Opium Wars and taking of Hong Kong) was deplorable. The Nets Owner's comments that the Opium Wars and taking of Hong Kong by Britain contributed to China's isolationism and paranoia about foreign intervention is valid. It's not just B.S. That of course doesn't make China's brutality and oppression right. But nothing wrong with acknowledging that this is complicated stuff.

It´s more about him being a hypocrite. He focuses on all the bad things that happened and influenced Chinas cultural and political development but refuses to acknowledge the horrible things that happened in the aftermath of world war 2, in the 50s/60s/70s or during the tiananmeng square protests.
It´s the same for most countries and their citizens. Not like the US aren´t doing the same. We focus on other countries wrong doings as well and fail to remember our own.
For example...In 2009 Obama was the first president to apologize for the horrible things that were done to native americans over the last 300 years.

[fifteenth]

Tough issue since the communist government in China has been brutal and oppressive for decades AND British treatment of China (including the Opium Wars and taking of Hong Kong) was deplorable. The Nets Owner's comments that the Opium Wars and taking of Hong Kong by Britain contributed to China's isolationism and paranoia about foreign intervention is valid. It's not just B.S. That of course doesn't make China's brutality and oppression right. But nothing wrong with acknowledging that this is complicated stuff.

I acknowledge that the history for China complicates the issue and plays a role in their paranoia as you put it (same reason why many americans are inherently distrusting of Muslim men and women on planes after 9/11) 

However, Tsai's statement is automatically taking the position that the Chinese government is right in this issue, and that the people of HK are separatists bent on dividing the mainland, and given their history it is understandable why the people of China is reacting so strongly against the people of Hong Kong as Tsai said. 

Yet Tsai conveniently forgets that Hong Kong was given rights when the UK gave control of Hong Kong back to China. Rights that have been slowly stripped away under their Communist regime. Not to mention the countless human rights violations and IP crimes China has committed, Tsai also loves to omit in his history lesson the millions of innocent civilians that have been slaughtered under the current Chinese regime in the name of censorship and ideological culling.  

A lot can be debated about whether it's moral to do business with China given their government is antithetical to American principles, and whether it was right to open China up in the 70's to allow them to become this powerhouse. But its too late to now and their economy is tied to ours. It's a delicate situation to navigate given the amount of $$$$ at stake here for the NBA. However, I draw a line when a communist country thinks it can strong arm an american citizen into submission for exercising his right to comment on an issue. 
Anyone defending the Chinese government over their actions in this case (Silver, Tilman, Tsai) in their support for censorship can in fact suck it.

The Chinese government is brutal and oppressive and they hold the Chinese people captive, even if they've given them a bit more economic freedom over the last couple of decades. I have to go ahead and make my position clear in order to type something reasonable about Tsai's tweet otherwise I'll get accused of defending the Chinese government too!

Here's the deal: I don't think Tsai defended the Chinese government. He just said that the response of the Chinese government and the people of China made sense and tried to explain why China got mad at the Rockets. I've reread it to check myself, but the only thing that Tsai said that could be "taking the Government's side" is using the work "separatists". But he did so to explain China's thinking.

I don't know anything about the guy. Maybe he supports China's government. If he does, I'd have to disagree with him. But that's not really what the tweet was about.

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BTW, I think this is a pretty good article about the protests and China's responses:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/pro-de...-hong-kong

[ThunderMav]

This is what Morey and others think of in what HK is fighting for.  If they lose then this will happen to many of them in HK once the Chinese stop info from leaking out.  We are not there yet but it will come if left unchecked.  HK is fighting for its future life.  

https://twitter.com/s_mmmdv/status/1175956260488962051

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Wow, just wow.  Makes me sick what NBA did here

https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/11...1322361856

[Hypermav]

This is what Morey and others think of in what HK is fighting for.  If they lose then this will happen to many of them in HK once the Chinese stop info from leaking out.  We are not there yet but it will come if left unchecked.  HK is fighting for its future life.  

https://twitter.com/s_mmmdv/status/1175956260488962051

---

Wow, just wow.  Makes me sick what NBA did here

https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/11...1322361856

Chinese fans were offended?  Who would actually be able to confirm that?  Clearly the communist party was offended.  I thought the people of Hong Kong were also "Chinese" and they were not offended. 

So, if you still like the Houston Rockets now, your PLA social credit score has been reduced... no soup for you.

Next up, an approved list of PLA/NBA teams that a good communist can root for.  

I bet 1 billion+ Chinese don't even know or care.

[Kammrath]

It´s the same for most countries and their citizens. Not like the US aren´t doing the same. We focus on other countries wrong doings as well and fail to remember our own.
For example...In 2009 Obama was the first president to apologize for the horrible things that were done to native americans over the last 300 years.

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https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/...1013581830

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https://twitter.com/ByTimReynolds/status...2157390848

[Xeroze]

This is what Morey and others think of in what HK is fighting for.  If they lose then this will happen to many of them in HK once the Chinese stop info from leaking out.  We are not there yet but it will come if left unchecked.  HK is fighting for its future life.  

https://twitter.com/s_mmmdv/status/1175956260488962051

---

Wow, just wow.  Makes me sick what NBA did here

https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/11...1322361856

Chinese fans were offended?  Who would actually be able to confirm that?  Clearly the communist party was offended.  I thought the people of Hong Kong were also "Chinese" and they were not offended.  

So, if you still like the Houston Rockets now, your PLA social credit score has been reduced... no soup for you.

Next up, an approved list of PLA/NBA teams that a good communist can root for.  

I bet 1 billion+ Chinese don't even know or care.

and you would be totally wrong. You would be surprised at how nationalistic the younger generation of Chinese people can get. I'm an ethnic chinese in Asia (never lived in china at any point though), and the type of stuff that i come by from Chinese social media makes me kinda cringe in terms of how anti-western some posts or even things like web novels can get. It's not some official supported stuff. 

In any case, even if only 10-20% of the chinese fanbase feels strongly about it is enough to take a huge hit to the NBA business in china. Which kinda suck. My personal view is that Morey screwed up, mainly because he didnt realize how much the backlash would be. In any case HK is a shitshow right now that isnt like how it's potrayed on western nor Chinese media, mainly because the type of stuff going on that isnt shown on either side is causing a lot of very very bias takes. And ultimately everyone in HK loses out.

[ThunderMav]

https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/11...8267144192

[michaeltex]

That drone footage looks like something from a sci-fi movie. Sort of a "Hunger Games" feel to it...and it's real.

As much as I'd like to take a whizz in Morey, I'm afraid he has a point and all the post-comment activity by the NBA is just chasing the $$$'s.

[Hypermav]

This is what Morey and others think of in what HK is fighting for.  If they lose then this will happen to many of them in HK once the Chinese stop info from leaking out.  We are not there yet but it will come if left unchecked.  HK is fighting for its future life.  

https://twitter.com/s_mmmdv/status/1175956260488962051

---

Wow, just wow.  Makes me sick what NBA did here

https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/11...1322361856

Chinese fans were offended?  Who would actually be able to confirm that?  Clearly the communist party was offended.  I thought the people of Hong Kong were also "Chinese" and they were not offended.  

So, if you still like the Houston Rockets now, your PLA social credit score has been reduced... no soup for you.

Next up, an approved list of PLA/NBA teams that a good communist can root for.  

I bet 1 billion+ Chinese don't even know or care.

and you would be totally wrong. You would be surprised at how nationalistic the younger generation of Chinese people can get. I'm an ethnic chinese in Asia (never lived in china at any point though), and the type of stuff that i come by from Chinese social media makes me kinda cringe in terms of how anti-western some posts or even things like web novels can get. It's not some official supported stuff. 

In any case, even if only 10-20% of the chinese fanbase feels strongly about it is enough to take a huge hit to the NBA business in china. Which kinda suck. My personal view is that Morey screwed up, mainly because he didnt realize how much the backlash would be. In any case HK is a shitshow right now that isnt like how it's potrayed on western nor Chinese media, mainly because the type of stuff going on that isnt shown on either side is causing a lot of very very bias takes. And ultimately everyone in HK loses out.

Hong Kong is protesting because their citizens love the freedom they currently have and did not want to be extradited into China to face becoming a political prisoner or worse for their beliefs or actions.  China is a human rights violating totalitarian nightmare to those that don't follow the state doctrine.  I don't see any bias in the west for calling a spade a spade. 

There is no equivalency between worldviews here imo.

[Xeroze]

This is what Morey and others think of in what HK is fighting for.  If they lose then this will happen to many of them in HK once the Chinese stop info from leaking out.  We are not there yet but it will come if left unchecked.  HK is fighting for its future life.  

https://twitter.com/s_mmmdv/status/1175956260488962051

---

Wow, just wow.  Makes me sick what NBA did here

https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/11...1322361856

Chinese fans were offended?  Who would actually be able to confirm that?  Clearly the communist party was offended.  I thought the people of Hong Kong were also "Chinese" and they were not offended. 

So, if you still like the Houston Rockets now, your PLA social credit score has been reduced... no soup for you.

Next up, an approved list of PLA/NBA teams that a good communist can root for.  

I bet 1 billion+ Chinese don't even know or care.

This is what Morey and others think of in what HK is fighting for.  If they lose then this will happen to many of them in HK once the Chinese stop info from leaking out.  We are not there yet but it will come if left unchecked.  HK is fighting for its future life.  

https://twitter.com/s_mmmdv/status/1175956260488962051

---

Wow, just wow.  Makes me sick what NBA did here

https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/11...1322361856

Chinese fans were offended?  Who would actually be able to confirm that?  Clearly the communist party was offended.  I thought the people of Hong Kong were also "Chinese" and they were not offended.  

So, if you still like the Houston Rockets now, your PLA social credit score has been reduced... no soup for you.

Next up, an approved list of PLA/NBA teams that a good communist can root for.  

I bet 1 billion+ Chinese don't even know or care.

and you would be totally wrong. You would be surprised at how nationalistic the younger generation of Chinese people can get. I'm an ethnic chinese in Asia (never lived in china at any point though), and the type of stuff that i come by from Chinese social media makes me kinda cringe in terms of how anti-western some posts or even things like web novels can get. It's not some official supported stuff. 

In any case, even if only 10-20% of the chinese fanbase feels strongly about it is enough to take a huge hit to the NBA business in china. Which kinda suck. My personal view is that Morey screwed up, mainly because he didnt realize how much the backlash would be. In any case HK is a shitshow right now that isnt like how it's potrayed on western nor Chinese media, mainly because the type of stuff going on that isnt shown on either side is causing a lot of very very bias takes. And ultimately everyone in HK loses out.

Hong Kong is protesting because their citizens love the freedom they currently have and did not want to be extradited into China to face becoming a political prisoner or worse for their beliefs or actions.  China is a human rights violating totalitarian nightmare to those that don't follow the state doctrine.  I don't see any bias in the west for calling a spade a spade. 

There is no equivalency between worldviews here imo.

I dont need a lesson on what the protests are for, but you seemed to have missed the point. The extradition bill is more than dead already, and the protests hasnt gotten better. They have gotten worse. And you have to realize that the protests are now seperated into two distinct groups: the very violent rioters and the generally peaceful protesters that are protesting
for more say in the people in charge. The issue is that the whole thing has gotten out of hand because the police has been ridiculously restraint while the rioters have literally seriously injured average citizens ranging from mainland chinese workers to old folks who simply cant stand the mess in HK (there's some stuff flying around on FB that one of the old folks had died a day ago, but i havent verified that).  

There's a shit ton of bias because there's a lot of hypocrisy involved simply based on past reputation rather than looking at how ridiculously restrained the police has been against the rioters. There's a lot of video out there of the police literally getting molotov cocktails thrown on, mobbed, and they arent even shooting live rounds in those scenarios. It took a mob, 2 downed policeman, and rioters preventing other police officers from moving the downed policemen before the first guy got shot in the recent days. There's also guys who literally instigated incidents like the guy in red in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpSHYa-wKPQ

It's a shitstorm. A part of it is on China not being willing to start conversation with the HK people, but at this point everything way out of hand and it has little to do with the initial bill but more to do with the lack of trust and the issues with the existing HK government and the lack of democratic options to replace them.

[Jym]

Hong Kong is protesting because their citizens love the freedom they currently have and did not want to be extradited into China to face becoming a political prisoner or worse for their beliefs or actions.  China is a human rights violating totalitarian nightmare to those that don't follow the state doctrine.  I don't see any bias in the west for calling a spade a spade. 

There is no equivalency between worldviews here imo

I do feel like "freedom fighters" do get a bit over romanticized though 
Brings me back to Syria where literal al Qaeda terrorists were being armed, funded, and propped up by the West. 
Makes me wonder how organic these protests really are and what percentage of HK support them.

[Xeroze]

This is what Morey and others think of in what HK is fighting for.  If they lose then this will happen to many of them in HK once the Chinese stop info from leaking out.  We are not there yet but it will come if left unchecked.  HK is fighting for its future life.  

https://twitter.com/s_mmmdv/status/1175956260488962051

---

Wow, just wow.  Makes me sick what NBA did here

https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/11...1322361856

Chinese fans were offended?  Who would actually be able to confirm that?  Clearly the communist party was offended.  I thought the people of Hong Kong were also "Chinese" and they were not offended. 

So, if you still like the Houston Rockets now, your PLA social credit score has been reduced... no soup for you.

Next up, an approved list of PLA/NBA teams that a good communist can root for.  

I bet 1 billion+ Chinese don't even know or care.

Hong Kong is protesting because their citizens love the freedom they currently have and did not want to be extradited into China to face becoming a political prisoner or worse for their beliefs or actions.  China is a human rights violating totalitarian nightmare to those that don't follow the state doctrine.  I don't see any bias in the west for calling a spade a spade. 

There is no equivalency between worldviews here imo

I do feel like "freedom fighters" do get a bit over romanticized though 
Brings me back to Syria where literal al Qaeda terrorists were being armed, funded, and propped up by the West. 
Makes me wonder how organic these protests really are and what percentage of HK support them.

The protests themselves at the start is pretty organic. Even amongst overseas ethnic chinese most arent exactly loving the way china handles its censorship n stuff. Most of my hk friends are very against the bill and how hk has evolved under the present government. The rioting though? I wonder how much is instigated.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status...8563658752

[ThunderMav]

This is true Kerr is a dooshnozzle hypocrit.

https://twitter.com/OKCTHUNDERAlex/statu...1061488640

[fifteenth]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status...8563658752

well done, Silver

Man, I made the mistake of reading some of the twitter comments under Shams' tweet. Political twitter makes me sad, not because of the political views, but because of the cynicism, rage, rush to judgement, lack of thoughtfulness, etc.

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This is true Kerr is a dooshnozzle hypocrit.

https://twitter.com/OKCTHUNDERAlex/statu...1061488640

What a ridiculous tweet!! Kerr says it's a bizarre story (China's reaction to Morey) and that he's not educated enough on what's going on (with China and Hong Kong) to comment about it. If all of twitter took that approach then twitter wouldn't be such an insane place.