Trade & FA 2023-24: HOU Targeting Mikal Bridges again!| Mitchell is LAL #1 Target

[ItsGoTime]

That seems like a jump. They might just be curious what they get for that package and even be willing to pull the trigger in the right deal. That comes nowhere close to proving that they believe they must get off of Holmes now.

How far did I jump when he said they are best served to wait till the offseason and I said they don’t agree citing the report as evidence?

[DallasMaverick]

I would so be for this trade too. 

THJ + Hardy + Dwight... for Grimes + Sims + Fournier

Then, if possible, re-route Fournier elsewhere, cause he sukks too.

Bye Timmeh! Bye Dwight!

Addition by subtraction.

[KillerLeft]

I think the Mavs are being opportunistic, as they should be.  I expect with the current market and the available assets the Mavs have they will be unable to make a big trade.  Potentially they may look to make a smaller trade but not sure it moves the needle enough for what we would need to give up.

I think I expect a smaller trade, too. Or none at all. 

And, I believe (with what we think we know so far) that it's the right way to go. 

O-Max, Hardy, Green, Lively could be the 4 starters next to Luka in 2-3 years. I don't EXPECT that to happen, but the alternative would need to be BETTER than that (not just faster) to get me off of that course.

[ItsGoTime]

Same rumors for Timmy and McGee that never happened.  I think recent history suggests maybe they do agree with me.  They are trying to shop him, but I don't think they are interested in paying assets to dump him.

Who said anything about what they were requesting in return? You said yhey would be best served to wait till the offseason. I said they don’t agree. Why is this so controversial to warrant so many replies?

[mvossman]

Who said anything about what they were requesting in return? You said yhey would be best served to wait till the offseason. I said they don’t agree. Why is this so controversial to warrant so many replies?

Just to clarify, I argued that it was not necessary to get off him now, that I thought it would likely cost an asset to do so, and that I would not want to pay that asset now.  If they manage to get from under that contract without paying anything, then more power to them.

[ItsGoTime]

Just to clarify, I argued that it was not necessary to get off him now, that I thought it would likely cost an asset to do so, and that I would not want to pay that asset now.  If they manage to get from under that contract without paying anything, then more power to them.

You were replying to a guy advocating for the Tate and Landale for Holmes trade. In that trade the writer says perhaps a SRP or 2. In that case, the asset would be added determined by Tate’s worth, not because of Holmes.

[mvossman]

You were replying to a guy advocating for the Tate and Landale for Holmes trade. In that trade the writer says perhaps a SRP or 2. In that case, the asset would be added determined by Tate’s worth, not because of Holmes.

I was replying specifically to the statement that we "need to get off Holmes contract".  I'm simply arguing that I don't believe its necessary to do that now.  I would argue that the asset cost would be at least as much about taking on Holmes as Tate's worth, but my reply was specifically to that statement.  I should probably have bolded it.

[mvossman]

Addition by subtraction.

Timmy and Powell have both been among our top 8 players.  I really don't see how you can argue addition by subtraction when you can point to multiple games recently that we clearly would have lost without one of them.

[ItsGoTime]

In discord there is talk about Patrick Williams being a potential fit for our future PF. The thought is it would probably take less assets to snt for him than it would take to get Siakam/Grant/Kuzma.

[KillerLeft]

In discord there is talk about Patrick Williams being a potential fit for our future PF. The thought is it would probably take less assets to snt for him than it would take to get Siakam/Grant/Kuzma.

I used to LOVE the idea of him, when he was first drafted. All the talk around him lately (and I've heard and read a bunch) is about how he hasn't progressed even a centimeter since he was drafted and might be the number 1 reason the Bulls' plan fell so flat on its face. I think he'll be out of the league soon, and I think O-Max is better right now.

[ItsGoTime]

Timmy and Powell have both been among our top 8 players.  I really don't see how you can argue addition by subtraction when you can point to multiple games recently that we clearly would have lost without one of them.

Man I hate this argument. Let me ask you this? If THJ is not on the team, do his shot attempts just vanish? The boost given to all our guys in 21-22 when THJ went down for the season was pretty amazing.

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I used to LOVE the idea of him, when he was first drafted. All the talk around him lately (and I've heard and read a bunch) is about how he hasn't progressed even a centimeter since he was drafted and might be the number 1 reason the Bulls' plan fell so flat on its face. I think he'll be out of the league soon, and I think O-Max is better right now.

I have to admit, this was my thought on him until some guys were saying his defense and rebounding are good and his offense needs a new team.

[SleepingHero]

I personally hope the Mavs will use the next two weeks to determine if the size and defense we need at the 4 is currently on the roster.  I wasn't certain if Maxi would return but I'd like to see how he looks before we trade for a backup 4/5.  His previous ability to play versatile defense, defend the rim and hit open 3s would provide much of what we currently need.  I'd also like to see OMax get some minutes in every game until the trade deadline.  I would be fine with him taking some of Grant Williams minutes as an experiment.  He is probably not ready but I enjoy a surprise.  

If neither of those players look ready to make positive contributions after a 2-week trial run, then I hope we'll look at a trade shortly before the deadline.  All I'm saying is give MaxiOMax a chance.

While I'm here, I'd like to give Dwight Powell a little shout out.  He has been playing really well lately.  His advanced stats now clearly show he's one of our top-6 players.  That contract looks like great value.  I think we just need a bigger PF next to him in his minutes.

I also agree the Mavs need to take some time to figure out if Maxi could be the switchable 4 with size we need already. But I will say his shot looks so broken it makes me wary. Im not sure what happened to him but he's developed this hitch in his shot and it looks awful. And I can't even blame the toe injury because he was shooting like that at the beginning of the season.

[KillerLeft]

I have to admit, this was my thought on him until some guys were saying his defense and rebounding are good and his offense needs a new team.

He's the exact right, ideal TYPE of player, imo. That's why I've been so into him over the years. And, I be he grabs some rebounds from time to time just based on his elite combo of size and movement ability. He's the prototypical dream, physically. 

I don't know if I agree about the defense, however. I don't think he's ever really learned to play basketball, which includes realizing his defensive potential. I for sure think he's unplayable on offense. The Bulls have kept playing him because they drafted him 4th, so they kind of had to just keep hoping he'd start to figure it out. But, everyone I've heard talk about him, guys like Holinger, Duncan, Lowe and others (not the end-all-be-all, but for sure guys who actually watch these guys play before speaking) have basically given up on him. He's kind of a punch line, frankly. 

Even if we don't buy that, what I can't get past is that the Mavs already have a guy with that, exact set of physical tools (which, again, is all there is to like about Patrick Williams). And by all accounts, their guy, O-Max, is a great person with a great work ethic. I really, truly think O-Max is closer to being a contributor on a good team than Patrick Williams is. 

Having said that...I bet Williams could be gotten VERY cheaply.

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I also agree the Mavs need to take some time to figure out if Maxi could be the switchable 4 with size we need already. But I will say his shot looks so broken it makes me wary. Im not sure what happened to him but he's developed this hitch in his shot and it looks awful. And I can't even blame the toe injury because he was shooting like that at the beginning of the season.

Ok. Valid.

But, the whole time he was out, people were acting like he'd never be a good defender again. I don't know about you, but he looked pretty damn good on defense to me the past two games. I feel pretty confident they'll get the shot figured out, too. 

If they want to move him for a better or more consistently available player I won't object, but I feel that Kleber has some high level basketball left in him.

[mvossman]

Man I hate this argument. Let me ask you this? If THJ is not on the team, do his shot attempts just vanish? The boost given to all our guys in 21-22 when THJ went down for the season was pretty amazing.

There are several players better than Timmy on this team, but they are already playing big minutes.  If Timmy goes, we are replacing his minutes with worse players (like Hardy and Curry).  When one of Luka/Kyrie are not on the court (which has been a lot lately) there are not many guys on this team I would rather have on the court than Timmy.

Speaking of hated arguments, I hate the argument the team got a boost when Timmy went down.  There were so many things going on that year.  The entire team struggled early on shooting (including Timmy).  Bullock was absolutely terrible early on.  Brunson moved to the starting lineup before the Timmy injury, which made a huge change to what this team was.  And then of course the real jump is when they made the KP trade.  None of those things had anything to do with Timmy.

[ItsGoTime]

He's the exact right, ideal TYPE of player, imo. That's why I've been so into him over the years. And, I be he grabs some rebounds from time to time just based on his elite combo of size and movement ability. He's the prototypical dream, physically. 

I don't know if I agree about the defense, however. I don't think he's ever really learned to play basketball, which includes realizing his defensive potential. I for sure think he's unplayable on offense. The Bulls have kept playing him because they drafted him 4th, so they kind of had to just keep hoping he'd start to figure it out. But, everyone I've heard talk about him, guys like Holinger, Duncan, Lowe and others (not the end-all-be-all, but for sure guys who actually watch these guys play before speaking) have basically given up on him. He's kind of a punch line, frankly. 

Even if we don't buy that, what I can't get past is that the Mavs already have a guy with that, exact set of physical tools (which, again, is all there is to like about Patrick Williams). And by all accounts, their guy, O-Max, is a great person with a great work ethic. I really, truly think O-Max is closer to being a contributor on a good team than Patrick Williams is. 

Having said that...I bet Williams could be gotten VERY cheaply.

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Ok. Valid.

But, the whole time he was out, people were acting like he'd never be a good defender again. I don't know about you, but he looked pretty damn good on defense to me the past two games. I feel pretty confident they'll get the shot figured out, too. 

If they want to move him for a better or more consistently available player I won't object, but I feel that Kleber has some high level basketball left in him.

Ya, I myself don’t really know, never really thought of him and because of that never all that interested in watching him play. If he is as you say, I’m good not persuing. Maybe a really cheap flier like the GWill deal, if absolutely nothing else materializes and OMax looks a couple years still away from moving into rotation level play. I guess.

[SleepingHero]

This had me thinking about Houston and the fact we haven’t brought up Eason in a long time.

They want a backup C. They offered Powell a double digit contract last offseason. They have 2 rookies that could use some extra minutes. 

Eason is a good player stuck behind a better player. He’s playing 21 mpg for them.

My trade proposal:
Tate and Eason for Powell, Green and 27

We then trade THJ to Orl who sends Fultz and a SRP to Atl who sends Capela to us

Luka/Kyrie/DJJ/Eason/Cap
Exum/Hardy/Tate/GWill/Lively

That is a solid team with 2 picks and a couple expirings and some young talent to add a starting caliber SF in the offseason.

The 2027 pick is the most valuable asset we have and last big piece for a star player. Green is probably our best foundation for a star package too. Tate and Eason are 7-10th guys. Why are we throwing both of them in here?

Houston writer thinks Tate is a throw in for a guy like Holmes. Is Eason worth Green+27?

[mvossman]

I have to admit, this was my thought on him until some guys were saying his defense and rebounding are good and his offense needs a new team.

Patrick Williams might be a good defender, but his rebounding is Grant Williams level.

[SleepingHero]

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Ok. Valid.

But, the whole time he was out, people were acting like he'd never be a good defender again. I don't know about you, but he looked pretty damn good on defense to me the past two games. I feel pretty confident they'll get the shot figured out, too. 

If they want to move him for a better or more consistently available player I won't object, but I feel that Kleber has some high level basketball left in him.

Haven't you been trumpeting the need to get guys that work on both ends of the court? I love Maxi. His defense has been pretty damn good since he's returned and something we've sorely needed.

But come playoff time if Maxi is being left wide open because teams don't respect his shot he's going to be sitting on the bench and it won't matter how good his defense is.

[KillerLeft]

Haven't you been trumpeting the need to get guys that work on both ends of the court? I love Maxi. His defense has been pretty damn good since he's returned and something we've sorely needed.

But come playoff time if Maxi is being left wide open because teams don't respect his shot he's going to be sitting on the bench and it won't matter how good his defense is.

Agreed, only I don't know why you're convinced that's how things will play out. This is a guy who hit 8 threes in a playoff game not that long ago. 

I'm WAY more worried obout DJJ's shot or Exum's shot than I am about Kleber's. He'll figure it out.

[ItsGoTime]

The 2027 pick is the most valuable asset we have and last big piece for a star player. Green is probably our best foundation for a star package too. Tate and Eason are 7-10th guys. Why are we throwing both of them in here?

Houston writer thinks Tate is a throw in for a guy like Holmes. Is Eason worth Green+27?

I think you’re selling Eason waaaay short. He is for sure better than Green, and especially considering the needs on this team. Maybe Tate for Powell is a wash and they would accept our 2 SRPs with Green for Eason (my original trade on discord), I’m all for it. I just see the fit for Eason on this team as fairly amazing and would have no problem if the trade included the FRP. I also don’t see the need for yet another star on this team. Get solid, well fitting pieces to complement our current stars is the need. Don’t need 3 FRPs to do that.