TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP

[Aussiebballer]

Wonder if he is back with family on the East coast.
Non-surgical procedure seems like a cortisone shot to the heel.
Makes me wonder if he has bone spurs under his Achilles, pure guess.

[F Gump]

Thanks, F Gump, not sure that's the way it works. 

I believe that when a team knowingly acquires an injured player in a trade, they waive the requirement that he pass a physical.

That is not correct.

Even if you trade for a player who is injured, all trades have two approval points. The first is with the league office, on the CBA issues. The second is after the NBA approval, when the player shows up and gets a medical examination. A trade is not complete until all players pass the physical with the new team. A trade at the deadline doesn't change that.

There is no question that this happened with Redick in some way or another. If there was no medical examination of some sort that happened, how would they already know that his condition was not as expected? They know, from the physical. It's just part of the process, a protection for everyone. 

It is nothing new for a player to change teams and their medical condition to be unexpectedly worse. That happens, with both healthy and unhealthy players. So every team is given the chance for their own medical staff to examine the player and based on their own staff's determination (since a prognosis is always a judgment call) determine the degree of injury (if any) and then decide AGAIN if they want to do the deal, or undo it. "We won't do this deal as is" can then lead to added negotiation, rather than simply voiding the deal.

As for how the deadline factors into the equation, they certainly could have voided the deal after the physical. getting better info. Could they have revised the deal? My belief (but I am working from implied info, not certainty, on this point) is that they couldn't revise players after the deadline (other than to simply send everyone back where they began), but they could agree somehow to adjust using picks and cash. I think that the NBA office can get involved in resolving these situations too, where the physical shows new or unexpected information.

[hakeemfaan]

I would counter by suggesting that perhaps you are a little desensitized to the value of having a guy like JJ Redick around.

What is the value?  As I said I am fine if there is any long term upside or if he is a key piece in us going to the next level in the next couple of seasons. He is not going to provide either. So no I am not desensitized to what he brings.  

Edit:  If the Nets would have given up a 2nd or even a late 1st for Reddick it would make sense. He might just be the final small piece to give them a title. That is not the case here. That’s why again. I have no issues with Reddick the player. The issue is looking at the value of a 2nd round pick and measuring it against what he can realistically help this team with. In my measurements, I value the pick more.

[cow]

They're just not in that mode right now. They don't believe that it's "the smart play." You and I don't have to agree, but securing our agreement isn't a hurdle they have to clear. I can dig long form debates over the team's overall approach, but I just don't get how THIS piddly little move, made under the pre-existing and easily attained knowledge that they likely wouldn't even consider something like the Bledsoe thing you describe above, gets people's feathers so up. 

If they had held onto that 2nd, they absolutely would have included it in another trade over the summer. My strong instinct is that the same people who hate this trade would've hated that one, too. At some point, can't we just enjoy watching the team play with open minds?

They are never in this mode because Mark Cuban has zero patience.  And while I think Donnie's done a pretty horrible job for the better part of a decade, it's the last bit of rope I give him in that Cuban's aversion to losing, as admirable as it is, often leaves you in no mans land (not good enough to compete, not bad enough to draft top prospects).  

And I completely get everyone seeing "THIS piddly little move" as a nothing burger, but this the pattern the MBT follow.  It's not one piddly move, it's every move.  In hindsight the KP move was probably a little too soon but I'd still have done it ten times out of ten.  The issue is that you spent an extra pick to get Luka and then two more for KP which left you very little margin for error when trying to improve your team.  There's a deeper conversation to be had about the state of the team prior to those acquisitions that left you so devoid of foster talent, but that's a story for another time.

They did some good things post KP.  The resigned DFS and Maxi to bargain contracts and you have to give them credit for identifying those two and developing them.  They then signed Seth Curry to sweetheart contract.  But they also spun their wheels that off season in the assumed chase for Kemba (couldn't get a conversation), PatBev (couldn't get a conversation but hard to blame them there when the Clippers gave him what he wanted to stay put) and Danny Green (embarrassing that they got strung along by him).  Settled for Delon at the last minute because they wanted either a massive splash (Kemba) or a defensive guard next to Luka.  Lack of recruiting or properly analyzing the free agency landscape cost them two second round picks.  

Delon didn't work but shit happens, they got off of him without too much pain.  But that led to trading Curry (elite skill on a value contract) for Josh (who was having a down year for the 76ers and entering the final year of his contract) to be that defender next to Luka that they hoped Delon would be and got tipped a SRP (Bey).   I hated this trade at the time and the Mavs certainly should have pushed for more or better draft compensation.

Now midway through the Josh acquisition season we decide we need more shooting and send a SRP for an expiring, old, and injured Redick.  

So piddly moves have butterfly effects.  We can't just keep treating the few assets we have with a devil may care attitude.  At the end of the day Delon might have cost us 3 SRPs and Curry with a very real chance that they only thing we'll have to show for it next season is Bey.  This offseason we could be right back to the search for looking for a defensive guard and a 3PT shooter (Curry still has another year on his contract).  To add insult to injury, Detroit just turned Delon into two SRPs.  That's two seasons of not improving your team.  If I'm Luka or anyone the Mavs are looking to recruit, I'm not going to be filled with confidence.

Little things matter.

-Green over Bey (it's weird that the team picks the upside project when they are so hell bent on winning now and have a coach that is allergic to rookies)
-Letting that TPE expire
-Trade miscues 

Second round picks can matter:  Our own Jalen Brunson or guys like Draymond or Jokic.

Sorry for being long winded.

[KillerLeft]

@"cow" and @"hakeemfaan", I don’t have any major issues with any of the concepts you guys are touching on. I don’t 100% agree, but I also don’t think you guys are crazy.

The main point I tried to make today is that this place is snoozeville when every single thread devolves into the same conversation. I was just excited to talk about the JJ Redick trade today - you know, how he’ll look on the team - and felt a little gipped out of that experience. The conversation you guys are wanting to have is one that has been hashed and rehashed here maybe 100 times. Sometimes I’m game for it, but today it harshed my mellow.

I can see now that trying to communicate that was a mistake, and I should’ve just taken a week away from the board.

[cow]

@"cow" and @"hakeemfaan", I don’t have any major issues with any of the concepts you guys are touching on. I don’t 100% agree, but I also don’t think you guys are crazy.

The main point I tried to make today is that this place is snoozeville when every single thread devolves into the same conversation. I was just excited to talk about the JJ Redick trade today - you know, how he’ll look on the team - and felt a little gipped out of that experience. The conversation you guys are wanting to have is one that has been hashed and rehashed here maybe 100 times. Sometimes I’m game for it, but today it harshed my mellow.

I can see now that trying to communicate that was a mistake, and I should’ve just taken a week away from the board.

I'm a buzzkill. 

I still love you. 

I hope JJ is right soon and joins the team.  It will be fun to watch off ball movement again.

[hakeemfaan]

@"cow" and @"hakeemfaan", I don’t have any major issues with any of the concepts you guys are touching on. I don’t 100% agree, but I also don’t think you guys are crazy.

The main point I tried to make today is that this place is snoozeville when every single thread devolves into the same conversation. I was just excited to talk about the JJ Redick trade today - you know, how he’ll look on the team - and felt a little gipped out of that experience. The conversation you guys are wanting to have is one that has been hashed and rehashed here maybe 100 times. Sometimes I’m game for it, but today it harshed my mellow.

I can see now that trying to communicate that was a mistake, and I should’ve just taken a week away from the board.

KL. This board would be poorer if you went on a hiatus. I am not a person who sees positivity in only wins. I am perfectly fine with a losing season too as long as I see some things change. As mentioned if the Mavs were where the Nets are I would not even crib about a late 1st for Jj. So again it is not about the value he brings but more about my personal stance of always valuing a pick more highly if the player does not satisfy the two criteria I have mentioned previously. 

Anyway. I didn’t mean to drive anyone away. Especially someone like you. So. no more discussion on this pick from me. Peace.

[Jym]

Losing the pick is kind of annoying, but that's certainly secondary to the commitment to capspace this move showed. I'm just so surprised that's the plan without a shot at Giannis and no other clear target. Thought for sure there would be a readjustment. 
One of the better case scenarios is us just bringing back the same team plus a decent MLE rotation guy. 
Decent chance we lose one or both of THJ or Richardson the first day when they are offered guaranteed money 
Realistically we could take a step back talentwise. 
Sucks that I'm turning into the cranky boomer that does nothing but focus on the negative but dang it sucks to see the team stay so stagnant.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I view this as mostly found money. If Redick can help the team, great! If it turns out he can't, it's not like the deal is making the team worse. They gave themselves a chance to get Luka some help in the playoffs, and that's about all you can ask for a second-round pick.

Skin and Karalla pointed out an interesting circularity to this pick and Curry debate.  

We gave up Curry and his non-expiring contract and got (likely) expiring defensive help in JRich and we RECEIVED a high second in the form of Bey.

We traded Wright (also non-expiring), who has been traded by four teams in 25 months and nothing-burger Jackson for expiring Johnson.  

We trade Johnson and GIVE a mid-second for a player, who if healthy, is a pretty good facsimile of Curry, but is on an expiring deal.

So, we swapped Curry for Curry-lite (Redick) and created more room this summer.  We traded a mid second for an early second (Bey) and we traded non-expiring and non-fitting Wright for probably expiring JRich. If Redick joins the team fairly soon, this is just basically rearranging furniture (shooter for shooter and defensive guard for defensive guard) and the Bey for future mid-second part.

As is often the case, we will have until this summer to see how this plays out.  It is possible that all that is left from this is Bey for a later second and what we get for the room created by Wright and/or Curry.

[Chicagojk]

Skin and Karalla pointed out an interesting circularity to this pick and Curry debate.  

We gave up Curry and his non-expiring contract and got (likely) expiring defensive help in JRich and we RECEIVED a high second in the form of Bey.

We traded Wright (also non-expiring), who has been traded by four teams in 25 months and nothing-burger Jackson for expiring Johnson.  

We trade Johnson and GIVE a mid-second for a player, who if healthy, is a pretty good facsimile of Curry, but is on an expiring deal.

So, we swapped Curry for Curry-lite (Redick) and created more room this summer.  We traded a mid second for an early second (Bey) and we traded non-expiring and non-fitting Wright for probably expiring JRich. If Redick joins the team fairly soon, this is just basically rearranging furniture (shooter for shooter and defensive guard for defensive guard) and the Bey for future mid-second part.

As is often the case, we will have until this summer to see how this plays out.  It is possible that all that is left from this is Bey for a later second and what we get for the room created by Wright and/or Curry.

Interesting thoughts.  One one hand, you wish that cap room from two summers ago would have had a more meaningful, longstanding impact than where we are standing now. 

I think this  past offseason the Mavs knew they had to improve the roster.  They were just not able to close the right deal to do so.  But I think they definitely knew the roster still had to improve.  They also had to believe Richardson would have been better.  

This offseason has the feeling of YOLO for the Mavs.  For some that could be exciting, for others it can scare the heck out of you.   To be honest, I feel like in the later right now after a rough two offseasons.

[hakeemfaan]

They are still building their plans on a hope and a prayer as Dirk once said.  Reality is when it comes to FA teams that you don’t even think of as being players, suddenly seem to have the ability to generate cap space. This along with the reality of the Mavs being just another franchise, regardless of our own personal bias, means they don’t have much chance to land a coveted FA.  The best place to get a legit star for the Mavs is via trades. Cap space is better used on getting some solid role players.

[DanSchwartzgan]

They are still building their plans on a hope and a prayer as Dirk once said.  Reality is when it comes to FA teams that you don’t even think of as being players, suddenly seem to have the ability to generate cap space. This along with the reality of the Mavs being just another franchise, regardless of our own personal bias, means they don’t have much chance to land a coveted FA.  The best place to get a legit star for the Mavs is via trades. Cap space is better used on getting some solid role players.

No disagreement.  This kicking the can gets old.  They shoot, they miss, but they retained flexibility, so there is always next year.  Once Luka’s extension kicks in and assuming KP is still here, kicking the can is going to get more difficult.

I think you make an interesting point.  It may be that we are reguarded more like the OKC/ATL/INDY’s of the world than the Miami’s, Boston’s and LA’s of the world.  So, we can plot and plan for months thinking we have Kemba and the next thing you know Boston looks much better (for a variety of reasons).

[mavsluvr]

KL. This board would be poorer if you went on a hiatus.

[mavsluvr]

Skin and Karalla pointed out an interesting circularity to this pick and Curry debate.  

We gave up Curry and his non-expiring contract and got (likely) expiring defensive help in JRich and we RECEIVED a high second in the form of Bey.

We traded Wright (also non-expiring), who has been traded by four teams in 25 months and nothing-burger Jackson for expiring Johnson.  

We trade Johnson and GIVE a mid-second for a player, who if healthy, is a pretty good facsimile of Curry, but is on an expiring deal.

So, we swapped Curry for Curry-lite (Redick) and created more room this summer.  We traded a mid second for an early second (Bey) and we traded non-expiring and non-fitting Wright for probably expiring JRich. If Redick joins the team fairly soon, this is just basically rearranging furniture (shooter for shooter and defensive guard for defensive guard) and the Bey for future mid-second part.

As is often the case, we will have until this summer to see how this plays out.  It is possible that all that is left from this is Bey for a later second and what we get for the room created by Wright and/or Curry.

Thanks for this interesting view. 

I agree that all these musical chairs operations are being carried out at least partly in the interest of maintaining flexibility.

[mavsluvr]

It may be that we are reguarded more like the OKC/ATL/INDY’s of the world than the Miami’s, Boston’s and LA’s of the world.  So, we can plot and plan for months thinking we have Kemba and the next thing you know Boston looks much better (for a variety of reasons)

I think there is something to this. 


We all love Dallas, for good reasons. It's a great city, and the team has had stars that could make free agents look better on the court. But I think that most NBA players do not regard Dallas as any sort of glamor destination. Not a bad place, but not a particularly desirable one, either. 

The Mavs were comfortable blowing up the 2011 team, thinking that Dirk would be a draw, but  he wasn't. Now they are saying that Luka will be a draw. On paper, it looks like he should, but we'll have to see how that plays out.

[mavsluvr]

Even if you trade for a player who is injured, all trades have two approval points. The first is with the league office, on the CBA issues. The second is after the NBA approval, when the player shows up and gets a medical examination. A trade is not complete until all players pass the physical with the new team. A trade at the deadline doesn't change that.

Thanks, F. 


Don't know if you are familiar, but physicals are actually not a part of all trades. They are the default route, but acquiring teams can waive the requirement that the acquired player pass a physical if they choose. This is common, for example, when a team acquires a player that they intend to cut immediately -- they'll waive the physical, because there is no reason to go through with it. 

When a team intentionally acquires a player that they know cannot pass a physical, they will also waive the requirement that he pass one.

[F Gump]

Thanks, F. 


Don't know if you are familiar, but physicals are actually not a part of all trades. They are the default route, but acquiring teams can waive the requirement that the acquired player pass a physical if they choose. This is common, for example, when a team acquires a player that they intend to cut immediately -- they'll waive the physical, because there is no reason to go through with it. 

When a team intentionally acquires a player that they know cannot pass a physical, they will also waive the requirement that he pass one.

It is true that a team can decide after the trade is approved by the NBA to waive the physical, but as you say this generally is used when the player is going to be waived and it's moot.

More importantly, the NBA's point isn't about "passing a physical." Most players have issues. But you think you know what they are when talking trade (medical records will be shared then). Instead, it is to ensure that every trade automatically includes an after-the-trade opportunity to inspect the goods when delivered, so to speak, to be sure you are getting what you think you bargained for. You never know.

If the Mavs didn't take any look at Redick and just blindly said "He has passed," that's on them. But I doubt that was the case, inasmuch as they clearly did something that caused them to make an evaluation. And having done so, even though they didn't like the result, they still felt they will be better off with "this version of Redick" than without.

[mavsluvr]

Summary of reporting I have been able to gather on the Redick injury. 

Redick suffered a heel injury on March 3. He has not played since. He had a non-surgical procedure on the heel on March 11. He is re-habbing the heel now. There is no timetable for his return. 

No player involved in a trade can suit up for his new team until the trade has become final with respect to all players involved (all physicals completed or waived). Melli has dressed already. There is no report of Redick presenting himself for a physical exam. It appears that the Mavs must have waived his physical. However, I have not seen a specific announcement that Dallas did or did not waive the physical, so if anyone has, feel free to let us know. 

Will try to get back if I hear additional facts.

[ItsGoTime]

This offseason has the feeling of YOLO for the Mavs.  For some that could be exciting, for others it can scare the heck out of you.   To be honest, I feel like in the later right now after a rough two offseasons.

Man, I don't want to be a downer, but this has been the mindset of posters on this board for many offseasons. It's always, I don't care what they did now, cause there is better opportunity later. I hope for better, and I think the ones pushing this point are just tired of hearing it. It's not about "do a deal just to make a deal", it's about getting a better evaluation of the talent you have on this team, and trade accordingly. 

Games like last night and the OKC one show us the valuation of the guys we have, heck, it's pretty clear the league has a pretty clear evaluation on our guys. We just don't and aren't willing to part with them on that valuation. 

Powell is valuated as a #5 starter and paid like one (at the time of that contract)? Sorry guys, that isn't gonna cut it.
DFS is the one we got right. 

Not even sure Maxi is the right price at this point as much as I love him, however, once you get below MLE the difference is not all that important...and yet it is. 

One or two million dollars could mean the difference between offering max or not being in the conversation (given the limitation we put on ourselves by not following the Mia and other, smarter front offices way to capspace for players). 

Now you add 1 or 2 million to a few contracts? 

WCS got a raise
Bobi is getting more than vet min (isn't' he?)
Powell is overpaid from the beginning (and unnecessarily extended early, although, there is a case with the blinders this FO puts on for Powell that he gets the same contract while injured a year later...)
Burke got more than vet min after being out of the league pre-bubble. 

People have talked about the gamble of being a GM in this league and you have to sometimes go with your gut. I might suggest that in a pure gambling situation, we're losing money, pretty fast. Sure, Luka was a gamble that paid of huge. KP was not a gamble IMO as many people have said that is a no-brainer trade, anyone who says differently has too much of an axe to grind.

Might I suggest (and I hope this suggestion isn't taken the wrong way), the ones complaining about the second rounder and rehashing old debates being "boring" to others is because they might actually be right and you don't want to admit that? 

I mean, isn't the end game of such a debate to evaluate the guys making the decisions at the top? Isn't there value in that debate? I mean, I have started going to the "wait and see" approach to every transaction, because there is no way in H-E-Double Hockey Sticks after all I've seen with this team's FO that I'm gonna just go with their evaluation of players in acquisitions they've made. I actually trust guys on this board that have watched more than just Mavs games on evaluations of players around the league in all honesty.

[Chicagojk]

Man, I don't want to be a downer, but this has been the mindset of posters on this board for many offseasons. It's always, I don't care what they did now, cause there is better opportunity later. I hope for better, and I think the ones pushing this point are just tired of hearing it. It's not about "do a deal just to make a deal", it's about getting a better evaluation of the talent you have on this team, and trade accordingly. 

Games like last night and the OKC one show us the valuation of the guys we have, heck, it's pretty clear the league has a pretty clear evaluation on our guys. We just don't and aren't willing to part with them on that valuation. 

Powell is valuated as a #5 starter and paid like one (at the time of that contract)? Sorry guys, that isn't gonna cut it.
DFS is the one we got right. 

Not even sure Maxi is the right price at this point as much as I love him, however, once you get below MLE the difference is not all that important...and yet it is. 

One or two million dollars could mean the difference between offering max or not being in the conversation (given the limitation we put on ourselves by not following the Mia and other, smarter front offices way to capspace for players). 

Now you add 1 or 2 million to a few contracts? 

WCS got a raise
Bobi is getting more than vet min (isn't' he?)
Powell is overpaid from the beginning (and unnecessarily extended early, although, there is a case with the blinders this FO puts on for Powell that he gets the same contract while injured a year later...)
Burke got more than vet min after being out of the league pre-bubble. 

People have talked about the gamble of being a GM in this league and you have to sometimes go with your gut. I might suggest that in a pure gambling situation, we're losing money, pretty fast. Sure, Luka was a gamble that paid of huge. KP was not a gamble IMO as many people have said that is a no-brainer trade, anyone who says differently has too much of an axe to grind.

Might I suggest (and I hope this suggestion isn't taken the wrong way), the ones complaining about the second rounder and rehashing old debates being "boring" to others is because they might actually be right and you don't want to admit that? 

I mean, isn't the end game of such a debate to evaluate the guys making the decisions at the top? Isn't there value in that debate? I mean, I have started going to the "wait and see" approach to every transaction, because there is no way in H-E-Double Hockey Sticks after all I've seen with this team's FO that I'm gonna just go with their evaluation of players in acquisitions they've made. I actually trust guys on this board that have watched more than just Mavs games on evaluations of players around the league in all honesty.

For the past few years my mantra has been not to make a big mistake and stay flexible.  So whether it was failed free agency or unconventional draft picks, it has been my mantra.  I thought we had to hit on at least one really good rotation pick with the second round draft pick two years ago, this years draft pick, or the pick between the Knicks pick.  Hopefully more than one, but at least one.  We will see if they can do this.  Young talent helps not only to build with but also as assets.   With FA, I thought it was important to collect solid pieces and not get stuck with an albatross contract.   Unfortunately, now two years later they really need to make 2-3 real good moves to get this team from good to great.   

It is funny though.  With all the frustration we have had over the past several seasons, this team was right on Haliburtan.   Who knows how close they got.   It would have hurt to give up picks, maybe Brunson, maybe more, but if they got Haliburtan, this team is set.  They just need to fill in the reserves.   Having Luka makes it easier to complete the build.  It is still tough though.  And the more good moves you make, the easier it is to give yourself the ability to go from good to great.