GAME 4 Playoffs 2024: Oklahoma City Thunder (1-2) vs. Dallas Mavericks (2-1)

[SleepingHero]

I'm quite depressed. Gut punch loss. I agree with most of yalls points on the reasons. My own thoughts:

Luka and Kyrie were 100% the reason why they lost. Its unfortunate. Kyrie I felt played within the scheme. He's a microwave offensively and if he has it going he can take over games. But he needs to get going first. OKC is doing a good job containing him. I'm oddly okay with the fact he didn't force it and got everyone involved. We needed him in the 4th, but the looks weren't there. He had 2-3 good looks that just rimmed out. He could've forced it more and created, sure, but that's also why we have Luka. And if it comes down to it I'd rather Kyrie make the right play vs. desperate shot attempts that probably aren't going in if he's double teamed. At 6'3, the chances of him making that are slim to none if he isn't on a heater beforehand. Again, he has some of the blame don't get me wrong.

It hurts to watch Luka fail over and over. This is the first time in his career that I'm watching and I'm actively hoping he doesn't fuck something up. I've never expected him to become a low IQ player who can't make reads. I don't understand what's wrong with him. I'll concede that he has a horrible knee injury that's limiting his movements, but like Killer said, that shouldn't/doesn't affect his ability to not throw a passes into the hands of the Thunder. That alone killed the team. Then factor in his shot selection and you have another 10-12 possessions that were horrible cause Luka chose to take contested step back threes and mid range shots. I mean one 3 was nearly at the logo! Do I mind Luka taking these shots? Usually no! But he's not himself. He can barely make a floater let alone a near 35 foot 3. Taking that shot is playing right into the Thunder's game plan. Since game 3, he is 63-153 on shots. That just ain't going to cut it ever. No one will ever win anything shooting that many shots with that bad efficiency. Luka has never been that in his career ever. I think his worst 3 game stretch came when he was a rookie and he never reached these lows. But instead of adapting to his injury, he doubles down on the things he can't do. As if he's indignantly trying to prove his injured knee wrong and show he can still do these things...?

And the complaining.... just yikes. It's always been the worst part of Luka. There really is no excuse. He hasn't grown up and its definitely embarrassing him on the biggest stage. He has gone through phases of being good. But this entire playoffs he's probably been the most annoying player to watch. It's easy to overlook this when the shots are falling. Much harder when the guy is actively shooting his team out of games.

I'm sad, because a healthy Luka might have made this series a 4-0 sweep. He'd be at his regular 30/9/9/ on 48/39/80 and that'd be all the difference. Instead we have this dude that looks like Luka Doncic but is playing like an angry zombie who cannot go 2 seconds without a glare towards the ref and a 5 minute convo with them at every deadball. It makes my stomach churn.

And don't get me wrong, Luka is justified in his complaining. The physicality the Thunder get away with on him is ridiculous, while Shai and others get the friendliest whistle. I think the reffing in the 3rd quarter was abhorrent. But instead of trying to improve and fix this issue, Luka just devolves into a man child who has temper tantrums. It's sad to watch. Again like KL said he's probably the best Maverick of all time already, and it's just disappointing he still hasn't grown up in 6 years.

Brutal.

[LukaMVP]

dirk is the greatest mav of all time and will always be. a healthy luka in terms of current and potential abilities may be better than even the prime dirk and I guess that's what you meant, but when it comes to the estimation of a player's greatness, I think it's more about what he does for this team imho.

our guys in blue did their best and even Jason Kidd isn't to be blamed. league wants the series to go 7 and the refs did their job saving OKC from the brink of elimination. basketball may be a sport but NBA is a business and a business only tbh.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

PJ taking the second most FGA's, is a win for the Thunder. Sure, he made some shots. He took 19 and led them in scoring. PJ shoudn't be leading the team in FGA's. It should be Luka and Kyrie. But they've effectively taken Kyrie away by putting JDub on him, and Kyrie has struggled. Combined with a hobbled Luka, Dallas has to make an adjustment to get Kyrie open for more opportunities.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

How is Luka so fat again in the middle of the playoffs?

[omahen]

PJ taking the second most FGA's, is a win for the Thunder. Sure, he made some shots. He took 19 and led them in scoring. PJ shoudn't be leading the team in FGA's. It should be Luka and Kyrie. But they've effectively taken Kyrie away by putting JDub on him, and Kyrie has struggled. Combined with a hobbled Luka, Dallas has to make an adjustment to get Kyrie open for more opportunities.

That is their whole defensive plan, to make shots as tough as possible for Luka and Kyrie and pack the paint to take away the lobs. They are sticking to the plan. It worked in games 1 and 4, didn't work in games 2 and 3. Not sure what Mavs could do to change that, since Luka or Kyrie are always playing against more than one defender, whatever they try to do. Its either them taking tough shots or try to pass to PJ and others for more open shots.

The only chance is for them to hit tough shots. Luka is shooting badly and Kyrie is not shooting (enough). SGA has been better. He also can't get to the rim due to Mavs defense and all his shots are contested, but he is hitting them with better accuracy compared to Luka and taking way more than Kyrie. Mavs I think are doing a better job in contesting the rest of the OKC players compared to OKC contesting the rest of Mavs players. For example they totally stopped Joe in game 4. 

I don't think it was shooting that was the main culprit for game 4 loss. It was some really bad turnovers and free throw shooting.

[omahen]

I think it was Cason Wallace that was excellent guarding Kyrie in game 4 in most of his missed attempts in the fourth. He was the biggest adjustment in the fourth, going away from Giddey and Aaron Wiggins.

[Chicagojk]

I think it was Cason Wallace that was excellent guarding Kyrie in game 4 in most of his missed attempts in the fourth. He was the biggest adjustment in the fourth, going away from Giddey and Aaron Wiggins.

Yeah I think they found something with that closing lineup.  They were even getting rebounds.  

Just an observation, Green’s defense is so consuming to me.  He has similar measurables as Wallace.  He tries hard and is active.  I just feel whoever he guards can get to their spots if they take their time or wind up making really hard contested shots.  green has tried to be more physical but that has led to bad fouls or he is not getting the benefit of the doubt when defenders bump him.

I don’t know if it he needs to learn the tricks of the trade or learn leverage against players.  I think there is a good defender in there.  Just not sure if he will get there.

[Chicagojk]

My take is on any missed shot, Kyrie needs the ball to look to push the pace. Right now Luka is no threat to put pressure on a defense. He had some beautiful alley oops but is not taking advantage of any fast break opportunities. Let Kyrie do it and tell him he needs to look to score.

[audiosway]

Yeah. 

Look, I'm not in any hurry to dump on someone who, at 25, is arguably already the greatest Maverick of all-time, but I'm not sure we're not letting him off the hook a bit blaming this 100% on an injury. 

The injury seems to be improving, somewhat. He's moving ok to me. 

The injury isn't making him throw passes directly to Thunder players.

The injury isn't making him force up shots without anyone else touching the ball.

The injury isn't forcing him to bitch at the refs NONSTOP. 

I want to love him more than any athlete I've ever followed. I really, really do. And, I'm not going to let this year's playoff results, whatever they end up being, become the EVERYTHING of my opinion of him. But, if I'm being honest, if I followed any other team I think I'd despise him.

I get all of this. I think Luka's biggest problem right now isn't the injury as much as how he is handling the injury. I get it that he is frustrated because he can't do all of the things he normally does. But, he is letting it get to him to the point that he is forcing passes and not focusing like he normally would.

He HAS to stop complaining to the refs. That just makes it harder for them to want to call things his way. (They are people after all. Although sometimes I wonder. lol)

It also changes the mood of the rest of the team. They feed off of him. If he is frustrated and frantic they will make mistakes too. 7 TOs is unacceptable. He just needs to grow up a bit and settle down. Play within himself even if it is less than he would normally be able to do. Be patient.

[Scott41theMavs]

I get all of this. I think Luka's biggest problem right now isn't the injury as much as how he is handling the injury. I get it that he is frustrated because he can't do all of the things he normally does. But, he is letting it get to him to the point that he is forcing passes and not focusing like he normally would.

He HAS to stop complaining to the refs. That just makes it harder for them to want to call things his way. (They are people after all. Although sometimes I wonder. lol)

It also changes the mood of the rest of the team. They feed off of him. If he is frustrated and frantic they will make mistakes too. 7 TOs is unacceptable. He just needs to grow up a bit and settle down. Play within himself even if it is less than he would normally be able to do. Be patient.

Him complaining to the refs isn't as concerning in and of itself as the facts that 1) evidently Kidd and Kai, both of whom he respects enormously, are incapable of getting him to stop it, and 2) he evidently isn't intelligent or emotionally mature enough to see for himself how much it hurts the team. Those two things lead me counterintuitively to believe that he's going to be like this - or worse - for the entirety of the rest of his career.

He has the talent level to be top five of all time, but GOATs don't have that glaring of Achilles' heels. This is like Roy Tarpley if Roy had Wilt Chamberlain's skill level. Tragic.

[nirvana]

Agree with general sentiment.

Kyrie should be initiating the offense going forward. Difference between Kyrie and Luka, I trust Kyrie will make the right play while Luka is still trying to make the flashy one. This is high stakes basketball, Luka is clearly not himself and playing way too careless.

That 1st quarter we should've put OKC away. We were up like 14, Thunder was reeling and were looking for any excuse to fold but we (Luka) got sloppy and we let them back into the game.

Fewer Luka PnR's/Iso's, more Post ups vs Dort as that's the only play I trust Luka with given his current state.

[mvossman]

SGA: 34 points 0 turnovers. That’s what a superstar does in the big moment. Luka: more turnovers than made shots. Both play the same position. That was just a personal beat down, among the biggest ever, that will set the discussion for this era of players.

This is hyperbole.  Its one game with a healthy SGA going against an injured Luka.  If Mavs end up winning the series, the narrative will be that a healthy SGA couldn't beat a hurting gutsy Luka and nobody will give a shit about this game.

[HoosierDaddyKidd]

Bottom line, make more than 52% of your FT's , you win the game going away. You can throw all that other shit out the window.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

I'm quite depressed. Gut punch loss. I agree with most of yalls points on the reasons. My own thoughts:

Luka and Kyrie were 100% the reason why they lost. Its unfortunate. Kyrie I felt played within the scheme. He's a microwave offensively and if he has it going he can take over games. But he needs to get going first. OKC is doing a good job containing him. I'm oddly okay with the fact he didn't force it and got everyone involved. We needed him in the 4th, but the looks weren't there. He had 2-3 good looks that just rimmed out. He could've forced it more and created, sure, but that's also why we have Luka. And if it comes down to it I'd rather Kyrie make the right play vs. desperate shot attempts that probably aren't going in if he's double teamed. At 6'3, the chances of him making that are slim to none if he isn't on a heater beforehand. Again, he has some of the blame don't get me wrong.

It hurts to watch Luka fail over and over. This is the first time in his career that I'm watching and I'm actively hoping he doesn't fuck something up. I've never expected him to become a low IQ player who can't make reads. I don't understand what's wrong with him. I'll concede that he has a horrible knee injury that's limiting his movements, but like Killer said, that shouldn't/doesn't affect his ability to not throw a passes into the hands of the Thunder. That alone killed the team. Then factor in his shot selection and you have another 10-12 possessions that were horrible cause Luka chose to take contested step back threes and mid range shots. I mean one 3 was nearly at the logo! Do I mind Luka taking these shots? Usually no! But he's not himself. He can barely make a floater let alone a near 35 foot 3. Taking that shot is playing right into the Thunder's game plan. Since game 3, he is 63-153 on shots. That just ain't going to cut it ever. No one will ever win anything shooting that many shots with that bad efficiency. Luka has never been that in his career ever. I think his worst 3 game stretch came when he was a rookie and he never reached these lows. But instead of adapting to his injury, he doubles down on the things he can't do. As if he's indignantly trying to prove his injured knee wrong and show he can still do these things...?

And the complaining.... just yikes. It's always been the worst part of Luka. There really is no excuse. He hasn't grown up and its definitely embarrassing him on the biggest stage. He has gone through phases of being good. But this entire playoffs he's probably been the most annoying player to watch. It's easy to overlook this when the shots are falling. Much harder when the guy is actively shooting his team out of games.

I'm sad, because a healthy Luka might have made this series a 4-0 sweep. He'd be at his regular 30/9/9/ on 48/39/80 and that'd be all the difference. Instead we have this dude that looks like Luka Doncic but is playing like an angry zombie who cannot go 2 seconds without a glare towards the ref and a 5 minute convo with them at every deadball. It makes my stomach churn.

And don't get me wrong, Luka is justified in his complaining. The physicality the Thunder get away with on him is ridiculous, while Shai and others get the friendliest whistle. I think the reffing in the 3rd quarter was abhorrent. But instead of trying to improve and fix this issue, Luka just devolves into a man child who has temper tantrums. It's sad to watch. Again like KL said he's probably the best Maverick of all time already, and it's just disappointing he still hasn't grown up in 6 years.

Brutal.

I don't agree with Luka's injuries not affecting his "bball IQ".  Dude is physically hampered, and with professional athletes it's all one ball of wax.  Your mind doesn't recalibrate decisions based upon physical limitations, at least not for injuries; it's a slow process, like a aging player changing their game over time.  His reads are fine; it's just that he can't physically do what his mind is telling him to.

[audiosway]

Agree with general sentiment.

Kyrie should be initiating the offense going forward.  Difference between Kyrie and Luka, I trust Kyrie will make the right play while Luka is still trying to make the flashy one.  This is high stakes basketball, Luka is clearly not himself and playing way too careless.

That 1st quarter we should've put OKC away.  We were up like 14, Thunder was reeling and were looking for any excuse to fold but we (Luka) got sloppy and we let them back into the game.

Fewer Luka PnR's/Iso's, more Post ups vs Dort as that's the only play I trust Luka with given his current state.

That's it right there. The first problem was letting OKC back into the game. That lead swells to 20 and they fold.

[LukaMVP]

Kidd deserves some of the blame for loosening the pressure on OKC and letting them back in the first quarter. his usage of the duo of gafford and lively seems questionable to me. gafford was our starting C and he was beasting during our run that increased our lead to about double digits, OKC called timeout supposedly and guess what, Kidd got lively on court in substitution for gafford. lively didn't perform that good in the first quarter, however, and OKC narrowed the gap quickly so he had to get gafford back on court immediately.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

The number of sports medicine doctors and psychiatrists on this board is extraordinary, lol. To say "Luka looks like he's moving fine to me" is straight hubris. There are many levels between can't play and 100%. If you were to ask Luka, I bet he'd say he's closer to the former rather than the latter. If anyone here thinks that Luka isn't hobbled and is just choking either hasn't been watching him since his rookie year or is being histrionic and reactionary.

Take a breath. Luka will pull through. Kyrie will step it up. Focus on PJ's coming out party at the very best time.

[Winter]

I made a prediction somewhere on this board that this series would likely be OKC in 6.

I'm actually less sure of that now than I was before the series started. These are good teams and they could go either way, but a game where Kyrie and Luka can barely make it out of single digits in points feels more like an anomaly that some other games.

If the defense can maintain the pressure, this may go seven games.

[Reunion Mav]

Kyrie said we were fine until we missed to many clutch shots. We did including free throws. Make just a couple more and we win in spite of the fact that OKC made a bunch of clutch shots and free throws.

It was the opportunities to finish that we missed that has upset me the whole series. That got us in more trouble this game. I have always believed when you fail when you get the opportunity it will come back to haunt you. Next game we need to have learned to finish our opportunities.

[meistermatze]

This one slipped away and it could cost us dearly, because once you go up 3-1, this series is effectively over. Now I don't know what do expect going forward.

But honestly, we will not win it this year regardless, unless somehow a miracle happens and Luka gets back to being healthy (which, as I understand, is out of the question). Luka plays like crap (by his standards) and it is getting worse, not better. How many teams have dragged their transcendet superstar to a title? i'd wager: Zero.

So we should enjoy the games while they last and get our boys positive experience. Luka will be happy with the season after the TDL (especially if we make it to the WCF again) and will stick around. This team will be even better next year. And Luka will hopefully not be injured, not fat anymore and a little more mature. The we have everything we need.

But seriously, this season IS over, even if we win this series. No great Luka, no title. So actually it doesn't really matter from now on.

But what many people don't seem to understand is how an injury also affects your psychology. You know you are not 100 percent, so you lose trust in everything you do, because the confidence is gone. You are waiting for the injury to hurt and limit you. You are not 100% focused anymore. All the people bitching about Luka not making his shots or throwing errant passes "is not due to his injury" are laughable and have probably never done any sports in any capacity and should just stop it right here. It's embarassing how little you guys apparently udnerstand about body and mind in sports.