Dameris and Followill on the Presser

[meistermatze]

I don't think you are "oversimplifying"....I think you are repeatedly misunderstanding and/or misrepresenting my position.


During this whole discussion I do not think my actual position has been reflected accurately with the exception of you asking if I was in part acting as a balancing force to what I perceived as turning Cuban into a villain and losing the nuance in the discussion. 


Basically every time my position has been put forward, it is not an accurate depiction and usually not even close to my actual position (usually the exact opposite). And it has happened so often it has felt like gaslighting. 



So let me ask you this:

What do you think my actual position is? 


And if you don't actually KNOW my position (which I believe to be the case) or if I suggest that what you have offered is not my position, then why not ask clarifying questions? I would be happy to tell you more. 


One other thing: Rather than give a long generic list of things I may or may not be doing, why don't you specifically address a statement of mine? Look at my actual words and tell me where you think there is a logical fallacy being employed. Speaking generically makes this whole thing more "ad hominem" (and you don't know me at all and I don't know you at all) and not about the words we are posting to each other. If you have a problem with my words, point to those specifically, not something else. Let's keep this concrete.

 
Fascinating back and forth. Let me quickly chime in:

I think it is always a good idea to steelman your opponent's position before going forward in a discussion. If you don't know, what steelmanning is, you guys should look it up. Essentially it is the opposite of a strawman-argument, where you intentionally or unintentionally attack a weaker (or wrong) version of the position the opposite sides hold, in order to discredit them.

Start with the steelman and go from there. In this case, I fear like it is too late for that but it could be a good way to get this discussion back on the right track.

I don't know if anyone cares, but IMHO, mavsluvr provided good examples, proposed in a perfectly genuine and nice way, to make you see where you went wrong, kamm. From my perspective, it reads very concrete. I would suggest some more introspection and although it might hurt a bit in the beginning, you will benefit a lot from reckognizing your slipups. Don't get me wrong, you are for sure on of the best and smartest posters around here and learning from probably THE best to keep improving is a win, not a loss.

I don't intend this to be some advertising, but I just wanted it to be known that I spend A LOT of time on these matters on my youtube channel that I recently launched (it is, at least so far, in german though) and that's why I feel confident by saying that I was also able to identify some of those logical fallcies you fell victim to here in this thread as well (we all do, at times and, like I said, you seldomly do because you obviously know how to reason and express your mostly well though-out and valid opinions. I have a great deal of respect for you and would not want to discuss you on basketball haha (because I wouldn't stand a chance, to be clear)).