(07-26-2024, 05:14 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: As far as all time rankings go. I don't have a list but I think Hakeem and Duncan belong in a different category than Kobe.
I don't know about being in a different category. Hakeen, Duncan, Kobe, all in the rare air of NBA all time greats. It just depends on how you define categories but over the course of an entire career Duncan's in the elite of elite by most any standard. Nothing taken away from Kobe but there was that down Lakers period where Kobe's team was struggling to the point he was considering leaving the Lakers.
I don't recall anything like that over Duncan's Spur's career. Even late career TD was very impactful.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/far...a-history/
Put it all together, and it’s hard to find a modern player with a better combination of offensive and defensive résumés than Duncan.
To measure this, I used a couple of statistics from Basketball-Reference.com: value over replacement player (VORP) and Win Shares, both of which strive to capture a player’s total on-court influence over his team’s success.1
I converted both metrics to a figure representing wins above replacement (WAR), and broke down each into its offensive and defensive components, zeroing out seasons where a player dipped into negative-value territory. Then I summed up offensive and defensive WAR for a player’s entire career — including the playoffs, where Duncan built a good amount of his legend — and took the harmonic mean (which favors balance between the two instead of a lopsided total in one category) of a player’s offensive and defensive tallies.
By that standard, Duncan has no peers among modern NBA players:
WINS ABOVE REPLACEMENT
PLAYER MINUTES PLAYED OFFENSE DEFENSE HARMONIC MEAN
1 Tim Duncan 56,738 108.1 110.3 109.2
2 Kevin Garnett 55,701 107.3 87.2 96.2
3 Karl Malone 62,759 162.5 67.5 95.4
4 David Robinson 38,492 100.6 80.3 89.3
5 Hakeem Olajuwon 49,971 79.5 93.3 85.9
6 LeBron James 46,861 196.2 52.5 82.8
7 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 50,840 144.4 53.5 78.0
8 Larry Bird 41,329 120.3 53.6 74.2
9 Shaquille O’Neal 50,016 133.8 50.2 73.0
10 Scottie Pippen 49,174 87.4 62.3 72.7
11 Jason Kidd 56,199 94.8 55.4 70.0
12 Michael Jordan 48,485 206.5 41.6 69.2
13 Charles Barkley 44,179 154.9 41.0 64.9
14 Magic Johnson 40,783 149.1 34.6 56.2
15 Clyde Drexler 43,109 118.2 35.6 54.7
16 Shawn Marion 43,934 63.0 47.0 53.8
17 Robert Parish 51,881 70.9 41.4 52.3
18 Pau Gasol 41,572 81.4 38.5 52.2
19 Horace Grant 44,793 68.3 41.3 51.5
20 Patrick Ewing 45,801 41.2 65.3 50.5
Nobody combined offense and defense like Tim Duncan
The NBA’s best full life-cycle players
NBA WIN SHARES
PLAYER THROUGH AGE 24 | AGE 33 ONWARD | HARMONIC MEAN
- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 61.5 82.6 70.5
- Tim Duncan 47.8 55.0 51.1
- Michael Jordan 53.6 43.6 48.1
- Dirk Nowitzki 53.0 37.5 43.9
- Wilt Chamberlain 35.8 49.0 41.4
- Kevin Garnett 50.0 33.0 39.8
- Paul Pierce 36.3 37.4 36.8
- Moses Malone 40.9 33.1 36.6
- Shaquille O’Neal 56.3 25.4 35.0
- Hakeem Olajuwon 30.6 38.5 34.1
Sorted by harmonic mean of NBA Win Shares through age 24 and from age 33 onward.