(06-28-2024, 12:05 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think Hardy is somewhere in between those guys right now. I don't think he's as good in the Ray Allen/JJ Redick way as Hardaway (when THJ is playing well) and I think that path would be sort of a waste for Hardy. I think if you give him the ball, as the Mavs are doing to much outcry in this community, his ceiling is probably not quite at Kyrie level, but his floor is around Jordan Clarkson level, which in my mind is a fine player to have, especially if home grown.
I am not sure Green will ever reach what we all believe is his full potential anywhere. That's what's so frustrating. I don't think he should initiate more, really. I'd love for him to cut/slash more, and I think he has a path for that here and has done so at a high level at times. I think the two main things with him are defense (his has been disappointing, despite what appears to be plenty of effort, and that's difficult for me to reconcile) and just general consistency in every aspect of his game. To be a touch indelicate, I'm starting to wonder if he's smart enough to do this. He just never seems to grab a role and hold it, no matter how desperately the Mavs need him to do so. Where I come from we call those missed opportunities, and those are starting to mount up for him. He's young, yes, and he's likely to get at least one more chance here or on another team, but man...it's not fun anymore, now that he's getting paid. The contract seemed like a bargain when he signed it because he was coming off of his annual push to the end a season and it looked like he was figuring it all out and sure to have a role the following year. But, he's had like three of those flashes, and in the end, he lost his job to a vet min player who was signed like a week before training camp and at times, Green wasn't even in the extended rotation. Who knows, maybe seeing what DJJ did last year on defense will help Green understand what's needed. If he could challenge for that spot, the offense would improve for sure.
I think with DJJ, you can't look at it without context. In a certain light he's a journeyman minimum guy whose offensive limitations have held him back in the eyes of the NBA, and I can't fault them for it. It's an offensively driven league. From a different angle, he made it possible for Luka and Kyrie, both defensively challenged to a certain extent, even if we think the criticism of them is excessively harsh, to make it all the way to the NBA finals. The truth is probably somewhere in between, but we didn't realize how great Tyson Chandler was until we saw how perfectly his strengths and weaknesses complemented Dirk, right? I, for one, didn't realize Jones could/would have the impact he did, and came away from it with a healthy respect for both his game and its synergy within the context of this current team. He's a GREAT fit with Luka. Herb Jones, Jaden McDaniels, Dort, Jalen Brown...those guys would be, too, but they can't get those guys, and I really do believe that DJJ's defense was impressive enough to warrant All NBA defensive team consideration if he has a repeat season, now that he's finally playing big minutes. I also have a long history of arguing with the masses around here that "development" doesn't just end when you turn 25 years old. Jones is only 26-27, and this truly is the first meaningful stretch of his NBA career where he has been given a chance to play a role like this, where his size is appropriate and he's not out there overmatched as a big, basically. I think it's possible, likely even, that he's still learning and growing. Improvement seems expectable to me. They don't need him to become Brandan Ingram, they just need him to become a dangerous shooter. If Jason Kidd can do it, so can Jones.
The last thing about Jones I'd say is this: speaking of Tyson Chandler, I believe the entire league took notice when he was not given a contract here after basically being the missing piece for that championship run. Like the 2011 Mavs, there are arguments to be made for several players being the key to this past season's success - that's the sign of a good team, I suppose. But, it's undeniable that Jones is in that conversation, despite becoming a fixture in the lineup only late in the season. We know it. The locker room knows it. The coaches know it. The league knows it. What does it say about Dallas if they don't show that they value a guy who signed here for the minimum (had other offers), was yanked in and out of the lineup and rotation all year without bitching and then stepped up when needed to do LITERALLY only the dirty work nobody else could do? I don't think that's the way the Mavs want to go, personally. I could understand it if some team was going to back a truck full of cash to his front door, but I seriously doubt he's even going to get the full MLE. For that amount of money, I feel he deserves a chance to prove this wasn't a fluke.
It’s difficult to nitpick any of that really. I think we just disagree on Hardy’s ceiling.
If I had to point out anything I think pointing out DJJ being young at 27 and still not done growing but not acknowledging the same for 23 year old Green just goes to show that we emphasize what we want to to make our opinions stand out for the players we like the most.
I’m obviously a fan of DJJ I just see his flaws and think he’s actually become overrated here. I’d love him at the TPMLE as the backup SF. I think we’d have buyers remorse if we sign him to $55M and expect him to be the answer at 36 mpg in the Finals is all.
Back to Green, I’ve been one of his biggest supporters for a while and I’m starting to see the writing on the wall… what he does and is ultimately capable of just isn’t a fit with LuKai. If he was a natural CnS player and elite PoA defender, then sure, but he’ll never shoot 5+ threes a game and is an undersized forward. Grimes on the other hand… go watch his stroke and tell me he’s not what we think Tim is (at his best). And his PoA defense gives DJJ a run for his money…