Poll: Which player would you prefer?
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Player A - 6’ 7” - 209 LBS - 3D Wing 28 MIN - 44% FG% - 35% 3PT% - 5.4 REB - 1.1 AST - 12.6 PTS - $11.3 MILLION
23.33%
7 23.33%
Player B - 6’ 7” - 220 LBS - 3D Wing 28 MIN - 46% FG% - 35% 3PT% - 5.2 REB - 1.2 AST - 8.5 PTS - $4 MILLION
76.67%
23 76.67%
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DoDo on the rise: Who's better than RoCo?
#89
(12-22-2019, 11:22 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: So wouldn't RoCo fit in even better than DFS?


Possibly. Maybe DoDo is improving, maybe not. I hope he doesn't hit a slump, but he might. Interestingly, the WP48 stats I posted earlier actually show DoDo's career Wins Per 48 Minutes, are better than RoCo's career numbers. And those career numbers were posted with guys like Deron Williams and DSJ running point. So, there's that.

DoDo certainly seems to be a better value than RoCo, at least from a Moneyball standpoint. 

There's also a great series of quotes from Carlisle and DoDo in The Athletic article. This regarding offensive rebounds: 

“He’s got a real gift,” Mavericks head coach Rick Carlisle says. “It’s something that you can teach guys — you can tell guys to crash the boards at certain times and things like that — but you can’t teach the feel and the anticipation and the tenacity he has for going after offensive rebounds. It’s really remarkable. He’s made uncanny plays all four years he’s been here.”

And this from DoDo, which relates offensive rebounding to defensive transition:

“It depends on my matchup, too,” Finney-Smith says. “If I’m guarding a guy who likes to leak out or a team that pushes a lot, my offensive rebounds probably won’t be there that game.

“We also do a good job of picking up each other in transition so if I crash, Tim will pick up my (man), Luka will pick up my guy and we communicate.”

“Crazy part is, I feel like I can get more, man,” Finney-Smith says. “Like I said, it be matchups. Some matchups, I can’t really crash like I want to because I’m sprinting back. I feel like if I wasn’t too worried about getting to a guy, I feel like I could get more.”

It’s part of the challenge, though, and something Carlisle coaches all of the players on in practices and the film room.

“(Offensive rebounds) involves the ability to regain possession of the ball so if you can do that, it’s a very big advantage,” Carlisle says. “But if you’re throwing a bunch of guys at the offensive boards, you’re not going to have numbers back, and that’s a challenge. So there is a balance to it.”

This goes back to a point I made earlier. To properly evaluate defensive performance, you have to have knowledge of what each player is asked to do. There's no way of knowing this from the boxscore. Analytics can help - if you consider who does what on every possession (this is part of the advanced defensive metric above) - but there's no way to really know unless you're in the locker room listening to the game plan.

Again not to derail this thread but this is why you have to pay attention to what DoDo's coaching staff and teammates say about him. Some players are selfish and get stats, despite the game plan. Not saying this is what RoCo does ... but I suspect a guy like Julius Randle might be guilty of this kind of thing. 

So stats alone don't cut it. Box scores are fun but not for deep player evaluation. Analytics can be better, but they're not to be relied upon in a vacuum. You have to look at the whole picture of a player including size, position, role, boxscore, advanced metrics, minutes, statements from coach & teammates, wins & losses, contract. It's very complex. 

One thing for sure, this thread has helped me develop a new level of appreciation for what DoDo brings to this team relative to what he's paid. He's an incredible value and the Mavs have to be ecstatic about what they're getting for the money. 

And if Seth Curry continues to look like the next JJ Reddick, DoDo + Curry for the price of a single MLE player has to be among the best value combos in the league.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Roco's Great. No, He Sucks - by omahen - 01-31-2020, 02:58 PM
RE: Roco's Great. No, He Sucks - by ClutchDirk - 01-31-2020, 03:00 PM
RE: Roco's Great. No, He Sucks - by StepBackJay - 01-31-2020, 03:21 PM
RE: Roco's Great. No, He Sucks - by omahen - 01-31-2020, 03:21 PM
RE: Who's better? - by TXBamanut - 12-19-2019, 04:44 PM
RE: Who's better? - by vfromlmf - 12-19-2019, 04:48 PM
RE: Who's better? - by Scott41theMavs - 12-19-2019, 05:04 PM
RE: Who's better? - by ItsGoTime - 12-19-2019, 05:05 PM
RE: Who's better? - by Scott41theMavs - 12-19-2019, 05:07 PM
RE: Who's better? - by SleepingHero - 12-19-2019, 05:11 PM
RE: Who's better? - by ClutchDirk - 12-19-2019, 05:14 PM
RE: Who's better? - by Scott41theMavs - 12-19-2019, 05:20 PM
RE: Who's better? - by vfromlmf - 12-19-2019, 05:24 PM
RE: Who's better? - by fifteenth - 12-19-2019, 05:26 PM
RE: Who's better? - by vfromlmf - 12-19-2019, 05:40 PM
RE: Who's better? - by Scott41theMavs - 12-19-2019, 05:41 PM
RE: Who's better? - by fifteenth - 12-19-2019, 05:48 PM
RE: Who's better? - by ItsGoTime - 12-19-2019, 05:59 PM
RE: Who's better? - by fifteenth - 12-19-2019, 06:03 PM
RE: Who's better? - by ItsGoTime - 12-19-2019, 06:13 PM
RE: Who's better? - by ClutchDirk - 12-19-2019, 06:54 PM
RE: Who's better? - by vfromlmf - 12-19-2019, 07:04 PM
RE: Who's better? - by SleepingHero - 12-19-2019, 07:46 PM
RE: Who's better? - by Scott41theMavs - 12-19-2019, 08:08 PM
RE: Who's better? - by Kammrath - 12-19-2019, 08:20 PM
RE: Who's better? - by vfromlmf - 12-19-2019, 08:36 PM
RE: Who's better? - by fifteenth - 12-19-2019, 10:18 PM
RE: Who's better? - by ItsGoTime - 12-19-2019, 11:00 PM
RE: Who's better? - by Kammrath - 12-19-2019, 11:25 PM
RE: Who's better? - by radioaktiv - 12-20-2019, 12:27 AM
RE: Who's better? - by dirkfansince1998 - 12-20-2019, 01:25 AM
RE: Who's better? - by Mavs2019 - 12-20-2019, 01:27 AM
RE: Who's better? - by vfromlmf - 12-20-2019, 08:43 AM
RE: Who's better? - by Hooper21 - 12-20-2019, 09:36 AM
RE: Who's better? - by ItsGoTime - 12-20-2019, 09:51 AM
RE: Who's better? - by Scott41theMavs - 12-20-2019, 10:23 AM
RE: Who's better? - by dirkfansince1998 - 12-20-2019, 10:40 AM
RE: Who's better? - by fifteenth - 12-20-2019, 10:53 AM
RE: Who's better? - by vfromlmf - 12-20-2019, 10:55 AM
RE: Who's better? - by fifteenth - 12-20-2019, 10:57 AM
RE: Who's better? - by omahen - 12-20-2019, 11:08 AM
RE: Who's better? - by dirkfansince1998 - 12-20-2019, 11:11 AM
RE: Who's better? - by Scott41theMavs - 12-20-2019, 01:25 PM
RE: Who's better? - by Scott41theMavs - 12-20-2019, 01:34 PM
RE: Who's better? - by HoosierDaddyKid - 12-20-2019, 01:44 PM
RE: Who's better? - by fifteenth - 12-20-2019, 02:11 PM
RE: Who's better? - by Scott41theMavs - 12-20-2019, 03:01 PM
RE: Who's better? - by Kammrath - 12-20-2019, 03:19 PM
RE: Who's better? - by Kammrath - 12-20-2019, 03:49 PM
RE: Who's better? - by Kammrath - 12-20-2019, 04:00 PM
RE: Who's better? - by Kammrath - 12-20-2019, 04:15 PM
RE: Who's better? - by vfromlmf - 12-20-2019, 04:22 PM
RE: Who's better? - by ItsGoTime - 12-20-2019, 05:25 PM
RE: Who's better? - by SleepingHero - 12-20-2019, 07:58 PM
RE: Who's better? - by iolide - 12-20-2019, 11:16 PM
RE: Who's better? - by ItsGoTime - 12-21-2019, 12:29 AM
RE: Who's better? - by fifteenth - 12-21-2019, 12:47 AM
RE: Who's better? - by ClutchDirk - 12-21-2019, 01:02 AM
RE: Who's better? - by ThisIStheYear - 12-21-2019, 08:42 AM
RE: Who's better? - by ItsGoTime - 12-21-2019, 09:30 AM
RE: Who's better? - by vfromlmf - 12-21-2019, 10:25 AM
RE: Who's better? - by ItsGoTime - 12-21-2019, 10:44 AM
RE: Who's better? - by dirkfansince1998 - 12-21-2019, 10:50 AM
RE: Who's better? - by StepBackJay - 12-21-2019, 07:54 PM
RE: DoDo on the rise: Who's better than RoCo? - by vfromlmf - 12-22-2019, 12:01 PM
Roco's Great. No, He Sucks - by DanSchwartzgan - 01-31-2020, 01:52 PM
RE: Roco's Great. No, He Sucks - by ItsGoTime - 01-31-2020, 02:02 PM
RE: Roco's Great. No, He Sucks - by fifteenth - 01-31-2020, 02:40 PM
RE: Roco's Great. No, He Sucks - by ClutchDirk - 01-31-2020, 02:49 PM

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