MAVS NEWS:

[windjc]

I don't know how it shakes out, but I feel like Cuban really does love this team and it pains him to see it in such shambles. Yes he hired Nico, so he has to carry at least part of the responsibility for the bad decisions of the last year or so. But I also think that he would not have allowed the gutting and dismissive behavior toward the medical and support staff, which I think has contributed to the current situation. So, like with most things, it's a mixed bag. We all wanted Cuban to sit down and shut up sometimes, but you didn't doubt his love of the team.

Jerry Jones loves the Dallas Cowboys. Doesn’t just just bring a tear to your eye having an owner who loves the team they own? It just means so much more to us fans than an owner that might dispassionately hire someone to make great decisions and let the team contend.

[F Gump]

I see the gambling angle, but I've never bought it as a "given" to rationalize the motives of the Adelsons moving operations here. Never once has it been mentioned by either them or Cuban - they've always been careful to couch things in terms of "real estate," and while I think them being behind a push to legalize gambling here and find themselves on the ground floor of a gold rush could explain things, I have tried to keep an open mind about other possible motivations, because from my seat, that would've been a huge risk for them. 

I don't want to get political, but for quite a few reasons I kind of feel that Texas will be the very last state in this country to legalize gambling, and again, without going too in depth and taking this forum off topic, I think that's probably for the best. This take has ZERO to do with morality and everything to do with some of my business interests, and I can tell you that when states legalize gambling they frequently shoot themselves in the foot doing so. Almost every economic problem Louisiana has, for example, is due to legalized gambling, but the biggest area of negative impact has been their education system, which is abysmal, and with those two guys out there in Texas on their own personal jihad to privatize education in Texas, let's just say that agenda doesn't mix with the one we're assuming the Adelsons are pushing. Tl;dr: I think it's going to be a WHILE before we see legal gambling in Texas, so I have a difficult time believing a family as rich and plugged in as the Adelsons actually thought it would be so easy. If that was really the play, I think it might have been doomed all along. For that reason, I kind of always bought the idea that they really were just interested in developing an area of Dallas built around the Mavs, as people have promised/tried before and failed to do.

1 I agree with your broad take about gambling in Texas in general. 

2 But respectfully, I think you whiffed completely on the Adelson/Dumont thinking. I believe they saw the Mavs as a way to get the camel's nose under the edge of the tent re casinos, so to speak, and that the potential real estate development tie with the Mavs would be the angle they need. It's not ONLY about a casino in Dallas, but also about a MASSIVE real estate grab of high end land via eminent domain to create a massive entertainment district that they would own and control. But it's not just one or the other, but BOTH.

The planned Town Lake (or whatever the name will be) has imo been a major part of the picture, a glittering jewel to drive tourism and bring people vacationing with lots of cash to spend, with a casino (or three) to offer the bells and whistles to motivate people to leave all their cash there. Hotels. Restaurants. Think of the Riverwalk but with a different configuration. Without the casinos and without the Mavs, it's been "in the works" for about 50 years. It is NEVER mentioned, but imo is at the core of everything the Adelsons want. One day (although it may be another 50 years, who can say) it will happen, bam it will start moving, and then it will be a massive hot spot. 

With the Mavs and an arena, you get eminent domain - like Jerry World, you pick the footprint and then the city/county confiscates the land from the owner who wouldn't otherwise sell it. It has to be bought, of course, but no one can really hold out. AAC is right on the edge of that footprint already, so you have a reasonable ask to shoot for THAT land closer to the water (and everything around it). FWIW it looks to me like Cuban already saw that potential, has moved his things bit by bit in that direction, and perhaps saw a casino group as the way to make those dominoes fall, so to speak.

Adelsons imo have banked on the synergy of "Mavs arena" and "casinos you don't have yet and would really want" as their way to get it done. But they MAY have bit off more than they can chew. 

If you have been keeping up, there's a current push to move the new arena site to the current city hall which is AWAY FROM the water and thus no way to grab that land. Is that what Adelson expected, wanted, and would want to pursue? It might not even be close. Combine that with the state's refusal to budge on casinos and they may have decided they are spending their efforts in the wrong place. Just a thought.

[KillerLeft]

I don't know how it shakes out, but I feel like Cuban really does love this team and it pains him to see it in such shambles. Yes he hired Nico, so he has to carry at least part of the responsibility for the bad decisions of the last year or so. But I also think that he would not have allowed the gutting and dismissive behavior toward the medical and support staff, which I think has contributed to the current situation. So, like with most things, it's a mixed bag. We all wanted Cuban to sit down and shut up sometimes, but you didn't doubt his love of the team.

Mixed bag is a great way to put it. 

Yes, he hired Harrison, but it was to be the "NBA relationship" arm of a front office Cuban, himself, planned to continue running. Harrison was intended to be additive in an area Cuban had self diagnosed as a weakness of his front office, but not an actual GM, as we understand the term. As with all things Cuban, this is simultaneously a reasonable logic to defend the decision and a huge problem, as THAT was an opportunity to actually FIX the front office (kind of like the one they have right now) and they obviously failed to do so. Cuban's inability to TRULY see why his approach was ultimately unsuccessful is and will probably always be why he can't/wouldn't be able to make this team what we here all want it to be. 

I'm torn, because I do think there's something to the idea that we're better off as fans if the owner is actually one of us: another passionate fan. However, I still remember how hopeless it was all feeling towards the end of his stewardship, and how strongly I felt that the hopelessness was his fault. I honestly don't care about the Adelsons' politics (or Cuban's, for that matter). I just want ownership with: 1) a strong will to compete, 2) deep enough pockets and enough resourcefulness for that will to matter and 3) the knowledge that the endeavor must include leadership from a person or (ideally) persons whose entire lives have been spent studying BASKETBALL. From my seat, it appears Cuban only has 1/3 covered, though his investor partners could potentially change the equation some.

More than anything, I just have Mavs crisis fatigue. It feels like we've been bouncing from one to the next since that sexual harassment stuff in the front office years ago, and that the franchise has been fairly unserious ever since. I don't know how much more of this I can stomach. More and more each day, I'm becoming convinced the team is about to botch this latest opportunity to put a serious front office in place and empower them to act. I hope I'm wrong.

[DallasMaverick]

Mixed bag is a great way to put it. 

Yes, he hired Harrison, but it was to be the "NBA relationship" arm of a front office Cuban, himself, planned to continue running. Harrison was intended to be additive in an area Cuban had self diagnosed as a weakness of his front office, but not an actual GM, as we understand the term. As with all things Cuban, this is simultaneously a reasonable logic to defend the decision and a huge problem, as THAT was an opportunity to actually FIX the front office (kind of like the one they have right now) and they obviously failed to do so. Cuban's inability to TRULY see why his approach was ultimately unsuccessful is and will probably always be why he can't/wouldn't be able to make this team what we here all want it to be. 

I'm torn, because I do think there's something to the idea that we're better off as fans if the owner is actually one of us: another passionate fan. However, I still remember how hopeless it was all feeling towards the end of his stewardship, and how strongly I felt that the hopelessness was his fault. I honestly don't care about the Adelsons' politics (or Cuban's, for that matter). I just want ownership with: 1) a strong will to compete, 2) deep enough pockets and enough resourcefulness for that will to matter and 3) the knowledge that the endeavor must include leadership from a person or (ideally) persons whose entire lives have been spent studying BASKETBALL. 

More than anything, I just have Mavs crisis fatigue. It feels like we've been bouncing from one to the next since that sexual harassment stuff in the front office years ago, and that the franchise has been fairly unserious ever since. I don't know how much more of this I can stomach.

A bit of winning will cure all your emotions.

[windjc]

Mixed bag is a great way to put it. 

Yes, he hired Harrison, but it was to be the "NBA relationship" arm of a front office Cuban, himself, planned to continue running. Harrison was intended to be additive in an area Cuban had self diagnosed as a weakness of his front office, but not an actual GM, as we understand the term. As with all things Cuban, this is simultaneously a reasonable logic to defend the decision and a huge problem, as THAT was an opportunity to actually FIX the front office (kind of like the one they have right now) and they obviously failed to do so. Cuban's inability to TRULY see why his approach was ultimately unsuccessful is and will probably always be why he can't/wouldn't be able to make this team what we here all want it to be. 

I'm torn, because I do think there's something to the idea that we're better off as fans if the owner is actually one of us: another passionate fan. However, I still remember how hopeless it was all feeling towards the end of his stewardship, and how strongly I felt that the hopelessness was his fault. I honestly don't care about the Adelsons' politics (or Cuban's, for that matter). I just want ownership with: 1) a strong will to compete, 2) deep enough pockets and enough resourcefulness for that will to matter and 3) the knowledge that the endeavor must include leadership from a person or (ideally) persons whose entire lives have been spent studying BASKETBALL. 

More than anything, I just have Mavs crisis fatigue. It feels like we've been bouncing from one to the next since that sexual harassment stuff in the front office years ago, and that the franchise has been fairly unserious ever since. I don't know how much more of this I can stomach.

Every one of your statements is valid and everyone is also a result of Cuban. Remember, Cuban said he could have sold the team for more but would have lost control. 

The man said this.

[KillerLeft]

A bit of winning will cure all your emotions.

Obviously! All I'm saying is that it would be nice if all we had to worry about as fans is whether or not the team can win. In fact, I'd say getting all of this other crap under control for a decade or so would probably make winning significantly more likely.

[ThisIStheYear]

I’m probably in the minority who are okay with Cuban in control. He won a title, won a ton of games, and basically made two other finals. Very few NBA owners achieved that level of success. As for the mistakes, if you’re not making them, you’re not trying. But, it would have to be closer to the Bank of Cuban version who took a few risks, not the (relative to other NBA owners) sisters of the poor version who had to sell because he couldn’t afford to put a great team around Luka. If ownership isn’t willing to spend on the tax, operate over the first apron, and even dip its toes into the 2nd apron from time to time, then it would be a non starter for me as a fan.

[cow]

I do wonder how much the Luka trade impacted the value of the franchise. Beyond Cuban caring about the franchise (and I how heartedly believe he does), he also cares about his money and his stake in the team. Had he have been a safeguard, that trade wouldn't have happened and if a Luka trade needed to happen, as incompetent as the MBT1.0 was, they would have assuredly done better as far as a return is concerned.

His past successes with the team, while admirable, also worked against him. He doesn't think he's the smartest guy in the room, he knows it. It's why he's made a name for himself. Well, that and selling broadcast.com to Yahoo which amassed him billions right before the tech bubble burst of 2001 (a little luck never hurts). That confidence in being the smartest guy in the room is what made the team fall apart after 2011. After all, doing it his way led to two final appearances and a chip, but the game changed and he couldn't adapt.

I'm dubious time away from having a say in the Mavs has changed him. I'm not saying it's impossible, but rather unlikely. He's a lot like Jerry in that regard. Just replace Superbowl wins with 50+ win seasons and some playoff success that culminated in a miracle run in 2011. That's a long time ago though.

[michaeltex]

I do wonder how much the Luka trade impacted the value of the franchise.  

I think this is important because doing the deal for Luka (trade with ATL) made the team too good, too fast. They had been trying to find the next star to lead the post-Dirk years (remember Monta Ellis and Harrison Barnes?) and fell all the way back into the lottery. But Luka instantly changed the script and accelerated the timeline, so they swung for the fences by trading everything they could for an injury KP. But that never worked and the team seems like it has been playing catch up since. 

FWIW, it finally feels like that pressure is gone and now the team can proceed based on a level playing surface.

[Dirknows]

Man Cuban just looks like even more of a clown than I thought he ever could after selling the team. Seriously don’t want that guy in charge of the team, but if he can put a group together to buy it we’re back to the Cuban GM circus.

[cow]

FWIW, it finally feels like that pressure is gone and now the team can proceed based on a level playing surface.

We still have a pretty big asset hole to work our way out of.  I'm not expecting the ping pong Gods to bless us twice, much less twice in a row, but maybe Gump can will it into fruition.  I just hope we hire a GM that will take their time and not trying to shortcut the process.  We are so far away from having the depth that the Spurs or Thunder have amassed and that was done through patience and a little luck.  We've had a little a luck, but do we have the patience?

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Yes, he hired Harrison, but it was to be the "NBA relationship" arm of a front office Cuban, himself, planned to continue running. Harrison was intended to be additive in an area Cuban had self diagnosed as a weakness of his front office, but not an actual GM, as we understand the term. As with all things Cuban, this is simultaneously a reasonable logic to defend the decision and a huge problem, as THAT was an opportunity to actually FIX the front office (kind of like the one they have right now) and they obviously failed to do so. 

You put this way better than I would have.  Well done haha.  I think it was the free agency summer of 2019 when Cuban/Donnie and the Mavs and Mitch Kupchak and the Hornets were the two teams waiting for the moratorium to expire to discuss free agent deals.  The other 28 teams had already discussed things using back channels.  Nico was hired ONLY because he had those back channel connections through Nike.

I don't think Cuban ever intended Nico to be the head basketball decision maker without anyone to overrule him.  The way the entire saga unfolded, it ended up being the worst case scenario.  The guy that was hired for his connections was suddenly running the team.

Dumont and Adelson know nothing about basketball.  They don't care about basketball.  They are the typical billionaires that are a blight on humanity.  When they have $10 billion dollars, their only focus is turning it into $20 billion dollars.  When they have $100 billion dollars, their only focus is turning it into $200 billion dollars. Maybe I'm unAmerican but I don't worship billionaires like a segment of our society. They are bad people.

To me, being a fan is more than just the chances of winning a title.  Having these people own the team is embarrassing.

[mvossman]

Dumont and Adelson know nothing about basketball.  They don't care about basketball.  They are the typical billionaires that are a blight on humanity.  When they have $10 billion dollars, their only focus is turning it into $20 billion dollars.  When they have $100 billion dollars, their only focus is turning it into $200 billion dollars.  Maybe I'm unAmerican but I don't worship billionaires like a segment of our society.  They are bad people.

I am far from billionaire worship, but I guess I don't get the hate either.  What you are describing is most business men.  Are all business men evil?  Are all billionaires evil?  Bill Gates doesn't seem evil.  Warren Buffett doesn't seem evil.  I guess I don't have nearly enough exposure to billionaires in general to consider the entire lot of them "a blight on humanity".

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

I am far from billionaire worship, but I guess I don't get the hate either.  What you are describing is most business men.  Are all business men evil?  Are all billionaires evil?  Bill Gates doesn't seem evil.  Warren Buffett doesn't seem evil.  I guess I don't have nearly enough exposure to billionaires in general to consider the entire lot of them "a blight on humanity".

Yes, most of them are evil.  People that do not give a fuck about anyone else except their own wealth are evil by my definition.

What you are describing is a typical American capitalist mindset. (I dont even want to get into the historical reasons for why many Americans think this way. The Cold War and all that)

[windjc]

You put this way better than I would have.  Well done haha.  I think it was the free agency summer of 2019 when Cuban/Donnie and the Mavs and Mitch Kupchak and the Hornets were the two teams waiting for the moratorium to expire to discuss free agent deals.  The other 28 teams had already discussed things using back channels.  Nico was hired ONLY because he had those back channel connections through Nike.

I don't think Cuban ever intended Nico to be the head basketball decision maker without anyone to overrule him.  The way the entire saga unfolded, it ended up being the worst case scenario.  The guy that was hired for his connections was suddenly running the team.

Dumont and Adelson know nothing about basketball.  They don't care about basketball.  They are the typical billionaires that are a blight on humanity.  When they have $10 billion dollars, their only focus is turning it into $20 billion dollars.  When they have $100 billion dollars, their only focus is turning it into $200 billion dollars.  Maybe I'm unAmerican but I don't worship billionaires like a segment of our society.  They are bad people.

To me, being a fan is more than just the chances of winning a title.  Having these people own the team is embarrassing.

So all Billionaires are bad people? Well there’s a rational well reasoned and experienced take. SMH

[KillerLeft]

I didn't mean to like that post ^^^ just hit like instead of edit.

I'm indifferent.

[KillerLeft]

We're wandering dangerously close to the realm of "political talk." I worry that I might've opened the door for this a tad, so if it seems that way to those reading I apologize. Either way, I think we should keep it from going much further.

[windjc]

Yes, most of them are evil.  People that do not give a fuck about anyone else except their own wealth are evil by my definition. 

What you are describing is a typical American capitalist mindset.  (I dont even want to get into the historical reasons for why many Americans think this way.  The Cold War and all that)

You literally don’t personally know any billionaires. But you believe you can judge them. Insufferably ignorant.

[KillerLeft]

I do wonder how much the Luka trade impacted the value of the franchise. 

I had the exact same thought, both immediately after the trade and yesterday when I read this news. Because the Mavs now have Flagg and have likely already repaired some of the drop in franchise value trading Luka caused, I'm not sure we'll ever actually know the answer to this question.

[windjc]

Luka is just a player. He doesn’t make a franchise inherently more valuable.