Game 31: Dallas Mavericks (11-19) vs. Denver Nuggets (21-7) | 7:00pm CST

[mvossman]

***Ignores part where my comments have spurred a discussion about Flagg rather than --- insert random Mav here ---.

I am happy to see we are having conversations now about things that matter. In life, if you can't appreciate the best most blessed parts of it, you are really not living. It's easy to complain. But it's vital to have gratitude. I loved Luka, but I am SOOOOOOO happy we have Flagg.

I think the recent discussion regarding Flagg probably has more to do with him putting up 33/9/9 against one of the best teams in the NBA than you telling everybody they are idiots.

[windjc]

I think the recent discussion regarding Flagg probably has more to do with him putting up 33/9/9 against one of the best teams in the NBA than you telling everybody they are idiots.

Except I’ve never used that word and 90% of the Flagg discussion came after my so “controversial” posts.

[BoredAssistant]

Probably late to this but I saw a commenter on Youtube/"Cooper Flagg HIGHLIGHTS" refer to Cooper as "The Maine Attraction".

[DallasMaverick]

I'm curious how we'd compare Luka as an 18 year old (the year before his rookie NBA season) to Flagg as an 18 year old.  

Year older Luka put up some pretty impressive numbers as a rookie at 21.2/7.8/6.0.  He put up 16.5 shots a game and was .427 from the field and .327 from three.  

December Flagg (10 games) is 24.1/6.2/4.5.  He has put up 16.9 shots a game and is .527 from the field and .308 from three.

I'd say it is pretty obvious Flagg is the better defender.  I'd probably buy the argument that Luka's offensive ceiling is higher (easy to do since Luka's ceiling is a proven concept).  I don't envision Flagg as a 30 point scorer, but watching those FOUR made three's made me question that.  He gets shots in the paint at will with zero spacing.  Add some spacing and give him a slightly above league average three point percentage and who knows where this thing goes.

Wondering what their usage rates are.

Luka seemed to always dominate the ball, while Flagg seems to move it around.

Definitely more pleasing to the eye.

[KillerLeft]

Wondering what their usage rates are.

Luka seemed to always dominate the ball, while Flagg seems to move it around.

Definitely more pleasing to the eye.

I don't know the current state of this stat with Flagg, but I do know that for the first several games after they stopped with the whole PG experiment his usage rate actually went UP, not down, meaning they were actually MORE successful getting him into scoring position when he wasn't playing PG. That might have changed in the several weeks since, however. 

I think the issue with Luka's high usage is that he was the PG. The stat is determined by how many of the team's possessions end with that player's shot attempt, free throw or turnover, so...yeah, when the guy bringing the ball up the court (slowly, often, with Luka) has a super high usage rate, that's not great, imo. It means there are a lot of possessions in which almost nobody else touches the ball. It's only my opinion, but that offensive approach is ultimately something a good defense can neutralize, even when the player in question is otherworldly. 

With Flagg playing forward, I think it's kind of a good sign if he has a high usage rate. He is still playing PG late in games and in some other high leverage moments, to be fair.

[KillerLeft]

Another thing to consider re the Luka/Flagg comparison, since we're diving in, is experience. Not only is Flagg a year younger than Luka was when he came over, but he's pretty significantly less experienced. That's a crazy thing to say, because Flagg has a wide range of very high level experience for an 18 year old, topped by a year at Duke and the rarest of opportunities to mix it up with team USA as a high schooler, but Luka's journey from age 13 to getting drafted is just unheard of. I'm not even sure he should've been called a rookie, tbh.

[windjc]

Wondering what their usage rates are.

Luka seemed to always dominate the ball, while Flagg seems to move it around.

Definitely more pleasing to the eye.

I think aesthetically someone(s) might prefer Luka ball. Some don't prefer it. 

But as far as "most easily to bring you a Championship" style, Flagg gives you WAY more flexibility. You can pair him with other players in many ways, where with Luka, not so much. Also, defense. As much as Nico was a moron, he was correct that defense is very important to winning on the biggest stage. Dirk gave more defensive effort than Luka, although not as physically gifted. Cooper is just a different skill set altogether on that end.

[KillerLeft]

I think aesthetically someone(s) might prefer Luka ball. Some don't prefer it. 

But as far as "most easily to bring you a Championship" style, Flagg gives you WAY more flexibility. You can pair him with other players in many ways, where with Luka, not so much. Also, defense. As much as Nico was a moron, he was correct that defense is very important to winning on the biggest stage. Dirk gave more defensive effort than Luka, although not as physically gifted. Cooper is just a different skill set altogether on that end.

Hey, you did it! There are some good insights in here (I agree with most of this) and you didn't have to insult anyone to make them. More stuff like this, less chastising people.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Wondering what their usage rates are.

Luka seemed to always dominate the ball, while Flagg seems to move it around.

Definitely more pleasing to the eye.

Luka was 30.5 for his entire rookie season.

Flagg was 26.1 for the 10 game December sample I used in my previous stats.

Surprising to me that Flagg is that high.  Dude seems to be figuring it out pretty young. Wouldn’t it be nice if his 3% took the same jump it did partway through his one year in college.

[Winter]

Surprising to me that Flagg is that high.  Dude seems to be figuring it out pretty young. Wouldn’t it be nice if his 3% took the same jump it did partway through his one year in college.

I had that thought.

One of the things in that happened in the Denver game was that his two brothers (one is a twin) were courtside cheering him on. I think he frequently would nod to them and smile or stick his tongue out when a shot went down. They may have relaxed him a little.

At any rate, I expect his 3-point shot will improve as the season goes on.

[Knutsen]

I had that thought.

One of the things in that happened in the Denver game was that his two brothers (one is a twin) were courtside cheering him on. I think he frequently would nod to them and smile or stick his tongue out when a shot went down. They may have relaxed him a little.

At any rate, I expect his 3-point shot will improve as the season goes on.

It basically doesn‘t make any sense, but Flagg himself argued that he’s now 19 and on another level shooting wise. Was taken as a sarcastic joke - but in college that was the switch to him shooting way better, his birthday.

Let’s wait for a couple of weeks if that’s really a mental trick that he can kind of flip a switch and turn the page because he tells himself that.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I'm curious how we'd compare Luka as an 18 year old (the year before his rookie NBA season) to Flagg as an 18 year old.  

Year older Luka put up some pretty impressive numbers as a rookie at 21.2/7.8/6.0.  He put up 16.5 shots a game and was .427 from the field and .327 from three.  

December Flagg (10 games) is 24.1/6.2/4.5.  He has put up 16.9 shots a game and is .527 from the field and .308 from three.

I'd say it is pretty obvious Flagg is the better defender.  I'd probably buy the argument that Luka's offensive ceiling is higher (easy to do since Luka's ceiling is a proven concept).  I don't envision Flagg as a 30 point scorer, but watching those FOUR made three's made me question that.  He gets shots in the paint at will with zero spacing.  Add some spacing and give him a slightly above league average three point percentage and who knows where this thing goes.

There was never a question who the better defender is. CF has the length and athleticism.  Luka has the strength. Flagg is ahead of schedule no doubt.