Game 31 Dirkie Thread: Cooper Flagg!!!

[ballsrchr]

Night and Day difference between tonight and last night. The basketball gurus will have to analyze the size/quickness difference to tell us why. My eye test says "poor effort" last night, and "house on fire" tonight. The Nuggets kept coming back and I figured the game was over. What the hell! The Mavs fought back. And of course they won.

Anthony Davis played a good game. Dirkie worthy on most nights.

Naji Marshall continued his "the Little Engine Who Could" impression.

Cooper Flagg played a high 39 minutes and came very close to a triple double. Dirkie worthy? Why hell yeah!

Honorable mention to Ryan Nembhard. While he didn't set the house on fire, he did provide a few matches. This underlines the importance of someone who can set the table and dish out some of the "food." Yes, yes, yes. He is too small.

[DallasMaverick]

Funny how our emotions color our analysis.

If that final Denver shot had gone in, we’d be screaming about empty stats, how we should trade all the bums, what a weak defender Nembhard is, etc.

But they won. So they’re pretty good.

[Smitty]

Funny how our emotions color our analysis.

If that final Denver shot had gone in, we’d be screaming about empty stats, how we should trade all the bums, what a weak defender Nembhard is, etc.

But they won. So they’re pretty good.

Wins and Losses are all that really matter, right? I had already planned to comment how great the game was, despite the loss, but now I don’t have to because they did enough to win. I’m sure you’ll find plenty here that will still call out players for empty stats or terrible possessions. There’s no shortage of negativity!

[ThisIStheYear]

Strictly speaking, Martin clearly played the highest above expectations. It’s the only good game I’ve ever seen from him in a Mav’s uniform.

[SleepingHero]

Tim MacMahon (@BannedMacMahon)
Nikola Jokic on Cooper Flagg after the rookie’s 33-9-9 night: “He doesn't feel like he's so young out there. He seems like he played meaningful games and he was winning before. That's my opinion. He looked really mature out there.”

[SleepingHero]

@noahweber00
Jason Kidd when asked about his recent comment on Anthony Davis getting back to playing power forward:

“I just said that we can look at it, not get back to it soon, just giving different options that we have to give Gaff a little bit more time on the floor. Because with AD at the five, it limits Gaff’s time. It’s gonna automatically knock him down to 15 to 17 minutes, so looking at the roster, to build a roster, you’ve gotta get him back to the four at some point in the game to give guys more time on the floor. But with the way we’re built right now, AD’s got to play the five. That gives us the best chance to win.”

On Davis and Daniel Gafford’s time together on the floor last night:

“Yeah, we’ll test it. It was tested, it failed the test last night, both offensively and defensively. We didn’t get any stops with the bigger lineup and we didn’t score. But we have to play it, and so if we can get some more time under that belt with our group we’ll have a better understanding if that group can play at a high level to help us win.”

[ballsrchr]

Funny how our emotions color our analysis.

If that final Denver shot had gone in, we’d be screaming about empty stats, how we should trade all the bums, what a weak defender Nembhard is, etc.

But they won. So they’re pretty good.

Absolutely!  I try to temper my emotions for the most part...especially in threads.  There have been a few times they got away from me and I post something I shouldn't have.  That's when the forum pixies shoot me down and I have to prostrate myself in contrition.  There are many performances in loses that deserve positive comment.  Generally these are covered in other threads. I watched Nemhard like a hawk because I think his position is so important. He DID play some good defense. I wish the Mavs would play a little faster though.

[ballsrchr]

Wins and Losses are all that really matter, right? I had already planned to comment how great the game was, despite the loss, but now I don’t have to because they did enough to win. I’m sure you’ll find plenty here that will still call out players for empty stats or terrible possessions. There’s no shortage of negativity!

Well...yeah...wins and losses are what matters at the end of the season.  Sometimes it's how you lose that causes a bit of negativity.  There are some people who thrive on posting negative comments.  I just ignore them and go on to the next post.  Most posts on this forum are just filled with good information.  And a good number of posters deserve that Super allstar designation (or whatever it is) on their name.

[ballsrchr]

Strictly speaking, Martin clearly played the highest above expectations. It’s the only good game I’ve ever seen from him in a Mav’s uniform.

Ah man!...you're absolutely right.  I had this thought on my mind when I included his name in the poll.  He clearly played above expectations.  Martin is clearly not a scoring threat.  With Davis and Flagg drawing the Nuggets attention on offense it left him, and others, open to score.  He did score...a bit.  Plus...Martin plays hard and provides good defense.

I certainly wouldn't argue with anybody giving Martin a Dirkie--in this game.  He probably won't get many such opportunities over the year.

[Chicagojk]

It is Flagg.  Really liked how he had the ball for most of the fourth.   Some poor possessions but for the most part he got the ball into scorer's hands.   Some really nice stuff you won't hear about.  Created corner threes and got the ball to AD with pretty normal passes but effective.

AD moved better last night. Something to watch.  He is much better as a #2.   You love when he gets you 30, but are not destroyed when he gets you 14 ad your #1.

Best game by Martin.  I really thought they were going to stop play and give him the game ball when he made a three last night.

Nembhard just makes things happen.  Not always the best, but he really thinks like he belongs and plays like it.   

The Marshall floater in the lane is really a thing of beauty.  

Props to Hardy and DLo for staying ready when their name was called.

[KillerLeft]

@noahweber00
Jason Kidd when asked about his recent comment on Anthony Davis getting back to playing power forward:

“I just said that we can look at it, not get back to it soon, just giving different options that we have to give Gaff a little bit more time on the floor. Because with AD at the five, it limits Gaff’s time. It’s gonna automatically knock him down to 15 to 17 minutes, so looking at the roster, to build a roster, you’ve gotta get him back to the four at some point in the game to give guys more time on the floor. But with the way we’re built right now, AD’s got to play the five. That gives us the best chance to win.”

On Davis and Daniel Gafford’s time together on the floor last night:

“Yeah, we’ll test it. It was tested, it failed the test last night, both offensively and defensively. We didn’t get any stops with the bigger lineup and we didn’t score. But we have to play it, and so if we can get some more time under that belt with our group we’ll have a better understanding if that group can play at a high level to help us win.”

Not sure this is the place for this discussion (not meaning you giving us the info, but rather my response to it), and it has basically ceased to matter at this point, with horrible guard play and injuries basically tanking this season in fewer than 20 games, but...

...man, this has my eyebrows raised. Lots of coded speak here, and this is EXACTLY what some of us were worried about all summer. Ironically, those on the other side of the argument will read something totally different in these words than I do, but to me, this is basically Kidd saying he can't play Gafford enough on this team, even WITHOUT Lively in the mix. He's overtly saying that the reason he feels the need to get Davis some time at the 4 is in order to get Gafford more time on the floor. Like, word for word. This is about hierarchy and pay scale. It's about roster balance. Even in the roster's current, injury-depleted state, Kidd can't play his best players together if he wants to win. 

The roster was not balanced properly. Most of us knew it. How much better would these first 30 games have gone if they had traded Gafford for an equivalent talent at PG when he signed his contract? I mean, even a slightly less than equivalent talent, but at PG? Instead, depth at ONE POSITION was prioritized over having ANY proven players at THE MOST IMPORTANT POSITION, to the point where an 18 year old was asked to learn the job on the fly, having never done so in his life. Thankfully, they figured out this was a bad idea quickly. Yes, the experiment helped and will continue to help Flagg develop quickly in certain ways, but how anyone thought this was going to translate to victories this season seems impossible to me in hindsight, and I speak as someone who was about 60% convinced I was crazy by the end of the summer. 

Stupid, stupid, stupid. Never again. If you don't have a PG, you don't have a basketball team.

[KillerLeft]

As for the Dirkie, it's got to be Flagg, obviously.

I will point out, however, that Nembhard led the team in +/- with +24, while Williams was a team worst -23. Not to oversimplify, but in a sense, there's your one point victory right there.

I feel the need to qualify this next statement with "ifs." IF Kyrie comes back strongly, looking like himself, and IF he can fit with Flagg as quickly on the court as Davis has, then sliding those two (Nembhard and Williams) into a situation where they are competing for their share of 20 minutes per (hopefully less, if Kyrie is healthy enough), rather than competing to see which gets the lion's share of all 48...I don't think we truly appreciate what a positive impact that could make on this team.

[ballsrchr]

Not sure this is the place for this discussion (not meaning you giving us the info, but rather my response to it), and it has basically ceased to matter at this point, with horrible guard play and injuries basically tanking this season in fewer than 20 games, but...

...man, this has my eyebrows raised. Lots of coded speak here, and this is EXACTLY what some of us were worried about all summer. Ironically, those on the other side of the argument will read something totally different in these words than I do, but to me, this is basically Kidd saying he can't play Gafford enough on this team, even WITHOUT Lively in the mix. He's overtly saying that the reason he feels the need to get Davis some time at the 4 is in order to get Gafford more time on the floor. Like, word for word. This is about hierarchy and pay scale. It's about roster balance. Even in the roster's current, injury-depleted state, Kidd can't play his best players together if he wants to win. 

The roster was not balanced properly. Most of us knew it. How much better would these first 30 games have gone if they had traded Gafford for an equivalent talent at PG when he signed his contract? I mean, even a slightly less than equivalent talent, but at PG? Instead, depth at ONE POSITION was prioritized over having ANY proven players at THE MOST IMPORTANT POSITION, to the point where an 18 year old was asked to learn the job on the fly, having never done so in his life. Thankfully, they figured out this was a bad idea quickly.  Yes, the experiment helped and will continue to help Flagg develop quickly in certain ways, but how anyone thought this was going to translate to victories this season seems impossible to me in hindsight, and I speak as someone who was about 60% convinced I was crazy by the end of the summer. 

Stupid, stupid, stupid. Never again. If you don't have a PG, you don't have a basketball team.

Good insights and thoughts.  Maybe if we had a team of centers who could play inside like Shaq, shoot 3s like Steph,  had the vision, handles, and BBIQ of a point guard, who could create their own shots from anywhere on the court, could run like a gazelle it would be ok.  But we don't.  Yeah, the roster is unbalanced.  AD is a center--and should never see the 4--except in emergencies, which it seems we have all too often.  Gafford is a very good backup center, and can start if necessary.  Lively is...injured.  Of the three, Gafford is the most durable.  I don't think Flagg should ever play point--except in the natural flow of the game.  He still needs to work on his right side game and 3PT shots.  Flagg has some qualities that may make him one of the best to play.  Doesn't mean he will, but he has that chance.

I don't think your point guard has to be the best on the team, but he better be pretty damn good.  Nembhard is not ideal, but he's the best PG we have.  On a team with a great point guard, Nembhard would be a good back up.  2 way players and multi-position players are very rare.  I don't mean someone you can plug into different positions and they just wander around, but those guys who can actually play different positions.

Yeah...this team is unbalance, but it's the team we gotta play.  I'm hoping for some good trades--but we have no GM.  How's that going to work out?

[DanSchwartzgan]

 
On Davis and Daniel Gafford’s time together on the floor last night:

“Yeah, we’ll test it. It was tested, it failed the test last night, both offensively and defensively. We didn’t get any stops with the bigger lineup and we didn’t score. But we have to play it, and so if we can get some more time under that belt with our group we’ll have a better understanding if that group can play at a high level to help us win.”

They were +2 in the five minutes Gafford and AD played together and scored 14 points.  That's a 134 point pace.  I would love to see more spacing on the floor, but "failed" may be too strong a word.  Also, with Max and Klay (and PJ) all out, where else was Kidd supposed to go?

[DanSchwartzgan]

this is basically Kidd saying he can't play Gafford enough on this team, even WITHOUT Lively in the mix. He's overtly saying that the reason he feels the need to get Davis some time at the 4 is in order to get Gafford more time on the floor. Like, word for word. This is about hierarchy and pay scale. It's about roster balance.  

If Gafford is too good to not play him, maybe we could use a lesser center in his place.  One more deserving of 16-20 minutes when AD sits.  Stein has been saying for quite a while that Gafford is the most likely Mav to be traded.   

Locked on did a Gafford to Chicago for White pod the other day.  What if it was Gafford plus Martin/D'Lo for White and Jalen Smith.  AD/Smith are your C's for now adding some stretch ability to the position.  Smith is serviceable, but not so good (or highly paid) that you can't sit him when Lively is available.

People have varying opinions on White, but mainly as the centerpiece of an AD trade.  In a Gafford deal, Chicago gets a starting level center who is under contract beyond April.  Dallas gets a starting level guard who is not.  I don't think either team gets picks here.  Dallas has to get something to offset the White flight risk.  So, they get to move some salary to Chicago.  Hardy (as a poor man's White) could be in place of D'Lo

[KillerLeft]

If Gafford is too good to not play him, maybe we could use a lesser center in his place.  One more deserving of 16-20 minutes when AD sits.  Stein has been saying for quite a while that Gafford is the most likely Mav to be traded.   

Locked on did a Gafford to Chicago for White pod the other day.  What if it was Gafford plus Martin/D'Lo for White and Jalen Smith.  AD/Smith are your C's for now adding some stretch ability to the position.  Smith is serviceable, but not so good (or highly paid) that you can't sit him when Lively is available.

People have varying opinions on White, but mainly as the centerpiece of an AD trade.  In a Gafford deal, Chicago gets a starting level center who is under contract beyond April.  Dallas gets a starting level guard who is not.  I don't think either team gets picks here.  Dallas has to get something to offset the White flight risk.  So, they get to move some salary to Chicago.  Hardy (as a poor man's White) could be in place of D'Lo

Gafford for White was the exact example I used all summer as the type of thing I hoped the Mavs were angling towards. I'd make that trade with zero hesitation. I also think Smith is a better fit as a backup center with Flagg than Gafford, though Gafford is CLEARLY a much, much better player.

I'd be a little concerned with White's impending contractual situation, but then again, it's an audition. If you don't like how he looks here with Flagg, AD and hopefully enough time to evaluate with Kyrie, you just let him go. A more workable tax situation doesn't seem like a great return for a player of Gafford's caliber, I know, but they've got to save in some area soon, right? And hey, if White is so good you want to pay him more than Gafford is making, that would require some doing, too, but at least the contract would go to someone in your top 6 who has synergy with the others. 

Right now, they're paying extremely premium backup center money to a guy whose strengths don't align with the team's approach anymore, and is the 3rd best center on the roster, when the roster is healthy. I know, I know...when is that? But sorry, I just can't get past it. Not when they're giving the ball to an undrafted two-way player and another guy who just escaped that status and could end up back there soon unless he makes the most of this opportunity. THAT's the position (or the 2, or the 3, really - not sure they have clear starters anywhere but the 4 or 5 right now) where Gafford's salary will make a difference.

[Winter]

Jalen Smith is a little different than Gafford - maybe better for this team. He shoots 3s from the wing at almost 36% and still gets the same number of rebounds in slightly fewer minutes. He's not a bruiser, but he can run the floor.

I'm not a White fan, but I don't mind the trade as is.

[Smitty]

If Gafford is too good to not play him, maybe we could use a lesser center in his place.  One more deserving of 16-20 minutes when AD sits.  Stein has been saying for quite a while that Gafford is the most likely Mav to be traded.   

Locked on did a Gafford to Chicago for White pod the other day.  What if it was Gafford plus Martin/D'Lo for White and Jalen Smith.  AD/Smith are your C's for now adding some stretch ability to the position.  Smith is serviceable, but not so good (or highly paid) that you can't sit him when Lively is available.

People have varying opinions on White, but mainly as the centerpiece of an AD trade.  In a Gafford deal, Chicago gets a starting level center who is under contract beyond April.  Dallas gets a starting level guard who is not.  I don't think either team gets picks here.  Dallas has to get something to offset the White flight risk.  So, they get to move some salary to Chicago.  Hardy (as a poor man's White) could be in place of D'Lo

Something some of us been hammering all summer. Would be an A+ trade.

[DanSchwartzgan]

If Gafford is too good to not play him, maybe we could use a lesser center in his place.  One more deserving of 16-20 minutes when AD sits.   

Similar concept, and we can watch these guys today...

Gafford for Moody and TJD.  Jackson-Davis is that center who can get you 16-20 minutes, but isn't so expensive that you don't mind sitting him if AD and Lively are healthy.

Moody is the backup/PT starting guard compensation for backup/PT starting center Gafford.  His advanced numbers look better than some of the guys we talk about at the position (White, Simons et al).  We have to cut Exum to do this and both teams are so tight to the 2nd apron that there aren't too many alternative versions unless this is part of a larger Kuminga deal where GSW takes back less than they send out.

[KillerLeft]

Similar concept, and we can watch these guys today...

Gafford for Moody and TJD.  Jackson-Davis is that center who can get you 16-20 minutes, but isn't so expensive that you don't mind sitting him if AD and Lively are healthy.

Moody is the backup/PT starting guard compensation for backup/PT starting center Gafford.  His advanced numbers look better than some of the guys we talk about at the position (White, Simons et al).  We have to cut Exum to do this and both teams are so tight to the 2nd apron that there aren't too many alternative versions unless this is part of a larger Kuminga deal where GSW takes back less than they send out.

This one doesn't grip me as much. 

I like Moody. I think he's a slightly better version Christie, due to superior size, strength and slightly more of an edge. Christie is showing signs of increasing his offensive bag, but it's pretty hit or miss, and Moody can shoot. I think Moody might be able to handle a starting role a bit better, so this would probably be an upgrade, and it might even be good trade value, but the Mavs DO have Christie, currently, so it's not the 911 situation right now, imo. 

Coby White makes the list because he's a threat WITH THE BALL. That's what the Mavs need more than anything, imho. Naji Marshall isn't suddenly playing better, he's finally found himself on a team so desperate for ball-handling he has a constant carte blanche to do his thing out there. It's cool that he has some game with the ball, but we're seeing the results in the W-L column.