Game 14 Dirkie Thread: Cooper Flagg!...in a landslide...

[ballsrchr]

Regardless of how we feel about the future of this team, the Dirkie thread is a celebration of how our players perform in games we win. In this game we had 7 players in double figures and another with 9. Aside from points there was also a host of good stats from nearly everybody. Let's not forget this is the second OT game. We won this one!

Gafford was instrumental. He put up a stout defense on the inside.
Klay Thompson came uncorked and finally put up some good numbers.
Max Christie continues to impress.
Naji Marshall had a down game, but still managed 9 important rebounds.
D'Angelo Russel struggled a bit, but still did mostly what a point guard needs to do.
Brandon Williams is still flashy fast. I'm sure someone will point out how I missed his good play, but it is what it is.

And to my Dirkie award winner: Well...if it wasn't for Flagg, it would be P.J. But Flagg was there, so my Dirkie goes to Cooper Flagg.

[cow]

Cooper had a few miscues at the end of the game, but he was also pretty clutch. I'd give the Dirkie to him or Gafford.

[KillerLeft]

Tough not to give it to Gafford, who I thought played a tremendous game at less than 100%, but this has to be Flagg for me. Great +/-, clutch scoring down the stretch, great defense, great connective play, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks, 5 assists and NO turnovers. Hes starting to figure things out.

[SleepingHero]

Before I get called a troll, I was going to give my Dirkie to Klay. Our offense was DOA until he actually made some shots. Despite some silly misses and turnovers, he breathed life into the team.

Kudos to Lively. His defensive impact to begin the 4th really set the tone. Even in his limited minutes his impact is still there.

But its really hard not to give it to Mr. Flagg. I figured we were in for another passive game where all the vets took 45 shots and Flagg played the good ol'team player and just sat in the corner. But come the 2nd half he took over. Offensively he flashed a lot. He is starting to get comfortable backing guys down and finding some rhythm. Once he starts to consistently hit threes, watch out. More importantly, his defense and overall clutch play cannot be praised enough. SO many times he made such a good rotation, so many times he came up with a key steal or blockout. It's the little things. Coop does em. And at 18 freaking years old he is leading this team in the clutch in OT with key bucket after bucket. That is abnormal. That is what I've been dying to see and he's showing me a lot.

Go Coop. Great game from him.

[SleepingHero]

Real Sports @realapp

Cooper Flagg becomes the youngest player in NBA history to record 20/5/5 with 0 TOV.

[ballsrchr]

Real Sports @realapp

Cooper Flagg becomes the youngest player in NBA history to record 20/5/5 with 0 TOV.

Trolls make comments without any reason except to foment trouble or agitation.  You don't do that.

I'm actually beginning to be impressed, maybe even mildly, pleasantly shocked by Cooper Flagg's play.  The game seems to be coming to him--or he's going to the game.  He doesn't shy from any situation, not afraid of big shots, seems to love playing at the end of the game--AND he still involves others on the team.  Sure he made some mistakes, but what the hell!...he is so young.  I think he's going to be a keeper.  Even more than a keeper.

Edit: I forgot to add that he also seems to have the ability and skills to do all that he is doing.

And Kidd is not hiding him on the bench...not afraid to play him.  Cooper and P.J. have been playing some big minutes.  Not ideal, but we'll see what happens in future games.

[KillerLeft]

And Kidd is not hiding him on the bench...not afraid to play him.  Cooper and P.J. have been playing some big minutes.  Not ideal, but we'll see what happens in future games.

This is true. I don't think Kidd really has the option of hiding Flagg on the bench, to be clear, but I do think he should be commended for his treatment of the kid to this point. I think it was probably a mistake (from the team's perspective) to try him at PG right out of the gate in his rookie season, for all the reasons we've talked to death. But, to his credit, Kidd has backed off of that pretty quickly - so quickly that I'm wondering whether or not it was even his idea to begin with, frankly, though we'll never know for sure. And, he's starting to give him the ball in a good way during high leverage moments with Flagg delivering, for the most part. This is probably farther along now because of the forced PG experiment then, at least a little. 

There have been a lot of grumblings in the game threads about how Flagg isn't getting the ball enough, not being used right, etc, and some seem to be blaming Flagg, himself, for being too passive. I think it's interesting that since they moved him to a more natural position his usage rate has been trending UPWARDS, despite playing way less PG. That's a sign that they're slowly zeroing in on the best way to integrate him into the offense to me. I think he's going to look better and better as we move through this season.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I think it was probably a mistake (from the team's perspective) to try him at PG right out of the gate in his rookie season, for all the reasons we've talked to death. But, to his credit, Kidd has backed off of that pretty quickly - so quickly that I'm wondering whether or not it was even his idea to begin with, frankly, though we'll never know for sure. And, he's starting to give him the ball in a good way during high leverage moments with Flagg delivering, for the most part. This is probably farther along now because of the forced PG experiment then, at least a little. 
 

My pet theory (no proof obviously) is Kidd set the team up to fail in the early going to get Nico on out of here.  The extension made Kidd fairly bullet proof and if the ownership wasn't going to pull the plug, Kidd needed to give a push.  It didn't really take much lineup finagling to send this thing down hill.  Williams being out made it even easier and Kidd has a history of early season lineup experimenting.  Add in the fact he had talked cryptically all summer about some version of Point Flagg and he has plausible deniability.  Once things started rolling down hill, the fans did the rest.  Kidd seems to be as big a beneficiary as anyone from Nico's departure.  Again, just a theory.

Back to Flagg, the thing that has helped him as much as anything is Davis being out.  No way he gets those late game touches he's had the last two games if Davis is available.  Flagg tends to defer a bit as it is, but you could really see him deferring to Davis when they played together.  Davis also kills the pace that Flagg generates when he's playing with other guys who can run.  

I wasn't sure it would go this way, but in a very small sample size, I think Davis hurts Flagg's development.  Its part of the Davis conundrum I've talked about.  Davis has to play to build value, but Davis playing probably hurts the (alleged) tank (I still don't know that we have enough info either way at this point).  Davis also hurts Cooper's development.  But, if you don't play him enough before dealing him, you are trashing an asset that could be incredibly helpful in turning this thing around.

[KillerLeft]

My pet theory (no proof obviously) is Kidd set the team up to fail in the early going to get Nico on out of here.  The extension made Kidd fairly bullet proof and if the ownership wasn't going to pull the plug, Kidd needed to give a push.  It didn't really take much lineup finagling to send this thing down hill.  Williams being out made it even easier and Kidd has a history of early season lineup experimenting.  Add in the fact he had talked cryptically all summer about some version of Point Flagg and he has plausible deniability.  Once things started rolling down hill, the fans did the rest.  Kidd seems to be as big a beneficiary as anyone from Nico's departure.  Again, just a theory.

Back to Flagg, the thing that has helped him as much as anything is Davis being out.  No way he gets those late game touches he's had the last two games if Davis is available.  Flagg tends to defer a bit as it is, but you could really see him deferring to Davis when they played together.  Davis also kills the pace that Flagg generates when he's playing with other guys who can run.  

I wasn't sure it would go this way, but in a very small sample size, I think Davis hurts Flagg's development.  Its part of the Davis conundrum I've talked about.  Davis has to play to build value, but Davis playing probably hurts the (alleged) tank (I still don't know that we have enough info either way at this point).  Davis also hurts Cooper's development.  But, if you don't play him enough before dealing him, you are trashing an asset that could be incredibly helpful in turning this thing around.

I don't know if I'm ready to say Davis and Flagg can't play together, but I agree it didn't look good in the small sample of games we've seen. At the very least, I think they need a firmer guidance about how to play offense in a way that benefits both, but then again, Davis might be learning about Flagg while he's sitting there watching, just like we are. I think you're right to have your spidey senses up about it, for sure. 

You might be right about Kidd and forcing Harrison out. I wish we knew for sure, because that could be a helpful piece of some other puzzles, too.

[mvossman]

My pet theory (no proof obviously) is Kidd set the team up to fail in the early going to get Nico on out of here.  The extension made Kidd fairly bullet proof and if the ownership wasn't going to pull the plug, Kidd needed to give a push.  It didn't really take much lineup finagling to send this thing down hill.  Williams being out made it even easier and Kidd has a history of early season lineup experimenting.  Add in the fact he had talked cryptically all summer about some version of Point Flagg and he has plausible deniability.  Once things started rolling down hill, the fans did the rest.  Kidd seems to be as big a beneficiary as anyone from Nico's departure.  Again, just a theory.

Back to Flagg, the thing that has helped him as much as anything is Davis being out.  No way he gets those late game touches he's had the last two games if Davis is available.  Flagg tends to defer a bit as it is, but you could really see him deferring to Davis when they played together.  Davis also kills the pace that Flagg generates when he's playing with other guys who can run.  

I wasn't sure it would go this way, but in a very small sample size, I think Davis hurts Flagg's development.  Its part of the Davis conundrum I've talked about.  Davis has to play to build value, but Davis playing probably hurts the (alleged) tank (I still don't know that we have enough info either way at this point).  Davis also hurts Cooper's development.  But, if you don't play him enough before dealing him, you are trashing an asset that could be incredibly helpful in turning this thing around.

I share your pet theory.  As long as it doesn't put Kidd in the front office, then I say Bravo.  It probably only costed us the Wizards game and any negative impact it had on Flagg was short lived.

The AD thing really is a conundrum.  It seems like we had this same issue with KP.  I think we waited to long to move him and got negative value.  I worry if we wait too long on AD the same can happen.  I am finding myself in the camp of if you can get a reasonable deal for him just pull the trigger.

[Chicagojk]

I wasn't sure it would go this way, but in a very small sample size, I think Davis hurts Flagg's development.  Its part of the Davis conundrum I've talked about.  Davis has to play to build value, but Davis playing probably hurts the (alleged) tank (I still don't know that we have enough info either way at this point).  Davis also hurts Cooper's development.  But, if you don't play him enough before dealing him, you are trashing an asset that could be incredibly helpful in turning this thing around.

I think Dallas needs to keep an open mind on Davis.  I am in no hurry moving him right away.  To be honest, I have very little interest in the Coby White, a first, and salary for Davis.  I like Coby White too.  i just feels like that is a move with very little upside.   

I hated how Davis moved to begin the year.  So much so that I went back and watched his 24 highlights to make sure I wasn't missing anything.   He doesn't move as well as he did in New Orleans but he was certainly moving better in LAL last year.   I would have honest conversations with him.

#1 does he want to be here?  If the answer is no, then we will look for deals.  Although I will be up front with him that we will only move him once we get a deal we view is good.  We would need his help to make sure that is a reality with his play on the floor.

#2 he is now a center and over 75% of his time will be at center.  What are his thoughts on this?

#3 is more of an evaluation.  Is he still hungry?   Does winning another championship still drive him?  

He has two years left on his deal with a player option.   Do we really think he will opt out with 60 million coming to him in his mid 30"s.   Mavs have some leverage here.    It is not the worst thing in the world to see how this plays out and then have him and Kyrie coming off the books when we have 3-4 good young players who are mostly before their extensions.  If Mavs can find another young player in the draft, what they do with AD doesn't really matter to me.   I just think they need to use their leverage...even when being honest with AD.

[mvossman]

I think Dallas needs to keep an open mind on Davis.  I am in no hurry moving him right away.  To be honest, I have very little interest in the Coby White, a first, and salary for Davis.  I like Coby White too.  i just feels like that is a move with very little upside.   

I hated how Davis moved to begin the year.  So much so that I went back and watched his 24 highlights to make sure I wasn't missing anything.   He doesn't move as well as he did in New Orleans but he was certainly moving better in LAL last year.   I would have honest conversations with him.

#1 does he want to be here?  If the answer is no, then we will look for deals.  Although I will be up front with him that we will only move him once we get a deal we view is good.  We would need his help to make sure that is a reality with his play on the floor.

#2 he is now a center and over 75% of his time will be at center.  What are his thoughts on this?

#3 is more of an evaluation.  Is he still hungry?   Does winning another championship still drive him?  

He has two years left on his deal with a player option.   Do we really think he will opt out with 60 million coming to him in his mid 30"s.   Mavs have some leverage here.    It is not the worst thing in the world to see how this plays out and then have him and Kyrie coming off the books when we have 3-4 good young players who are mostly before their extensions.  If Mavs can find another young player in the draft, what they do with AD doesn't really matter to me.   I just think they need to use their leverage...even when being honest with AD.

I think part of that conversation with AD should include making it clear we have no interest in paying anything near his max extension.

[Chicagojk]

I think part of that conversation with AD should include making it clear we have no interest in paying anything near his max extension.

I agree.   Also, even though he is close to being able to sign an extension, we are no where close to having that discussion.    We are a long way from doing this.   Sure, it may ruffle some feathers but it is what it is.

[Dahlsim]

I share your pet theory.  As long as it doesn't put Kidd in the front office, then I say Bravo.  It probably only costed us the Wizards game and any negative impact it had on Flagg was short lived.

The AD thing really is a conundrum.  It seems like we had this same issue with KP.  I think we waited to long to move him and got negative value.  I worry if we wait too long on AD the same can happen.  I am finding myself in the camp of if you can get a reasonable deal for him just pull the trigger.

Not sure how effectively Dallas can tank a season really at this point with the level of veteran talent and depth on the team.  They have players that will really make it hard to tank in the stretch run of a season when the tank commanders really get after it.   

AD and Kyrie are still good enough and not so old that they can't push a contender up higher or even anchor a young team the way Durant was valuable to Houston.  I think you still play to win but keep the minutes and usage designed for lowest health risk to those guys.  You push for the richest deal possible like these guys are all stars because when they are healthy, they play at that level.  

Lively's questionable ability to stay healthy is also getting worrisome but you probably have to ride that one out on the Cooper timeline for now.

[F Gump]

Not sure how effectively Dallas can tank a season really at this point with the level of veteran talent and depth on the team.  They have players that will really make it hard to tank in the stretch run of a season when the tank commanders really get after it.

Yes star players can mess up losses and turn them into wins. But it can be way EASIER to tank than you are envisioning, even if you have star players. 

The best Mav players will just need to have "injuries" that keep them from playing very much this season.

If your top players don't want to be "injured" so you can tank, then yep, a trade will be necessary. 

However that's not a good answer at all, because a trade in that scenario will be a giveaway. You CAN'T get back equal talent, because that defeats the purpose of a bad team this season. And in the bigger picture, you can't get good again later without somehow reacquiring the star-level talent to be your foundation. So you end up killing your future with such giveaway trades.

OTOH injuries to the top guys is about all you need to kill the record. You are only temporarily bad. In the short term, you can not only keep your best players from having an impact, but with the minutes that open up from "injuries," the coach then can overplay sucky players, and use players in disadvantageous ways, to make winning unlikely. The Mavs are on a 20-win pace, so it's not like a sucky record should be all that much of a challenge to achieve.

The question is whether the Mavs are smart enough to know what to do, and committed enough to make it happen. I don't trust Cuban's ability AT ALL, but fortunately he has no actual decision-making power. Whether Dumont has (or will get) the GM expertise to help him figure it out and do it the right way, it's hard to know.