AROUND the NBA:

[loki]

Meanwhile, Martin looks like someone who is going to really be costly from a tax standpoint if he's indeed the 12th man or so on the depth chart.

That's the reason I would prioritize moving him as soon as possible. I've been trying to update my tax calculation, and with some basic assumptions (7% cap increase, max PJ extension, DLO opting in, 15th pick in the draft, 2 vet mins) I have the Mavs at $25M over the luxury tax next year resulting in a tax payment of $117M. Dumping Martin's contract and replacing him with a vet min saves $58M.

They're going to have to shed salary next offseason without a doubt.

[ThisIStheYear]

I agree with pretty much everything here except for #7. Klay did not suck and his contract is not terrible. He is exactly who the Mavs wanted him to be. A high volume - high percentage 3-point shooter, that isn’t a turnstile on defense. He played a career low in mpg (~27) and scored 14 ppg. He shot ~8 threes a game at 39% (good) and 4 twos a game at 45% (bad). His role is needed even more so this season since Kyrie, another high volume - high percentage 3-point shooter will be out. I do expect his minutes to decrease again this season, and I’d want his 2PA to decrease even more.

I’m not against moving Klay in a deal that makes sense, but in no way am I in the same boat as you to say he sucked and his contract is idiotic. He is who he is and I think his contract (16.6M, 17.4M) is in line with skill set and impact.

I figured Klay would be the most controversial statement.  But, he just had a career low PER (below the NBA average), career low defensive rating (he really is a defensive turnstile now), and a TS% of only 55%. At his core, Klay is the ultimate 3 and D guy who can create a little for others and score from other levels as well. His D is gone now and he can’t do anything really but hit the three at a good though not elite rate.  Father Time is undefeated, especially when you have a history of severe injuries. He’s cooked.  In this new hard cap environment, spending $17 million for that is a disaster. You can get a near star for that.  He’s worth no more than the small exception, and really less.  I did see he hit a bunch of open shots in practice yesterday and has a famous new girlfriend. I’d say sell high but no team in their right mind would trade for him.

[ThisIStheYear]

There has to be something not quite right about Grimes.  Besides the fact that he gets traded a lot, the teams that move on from him don't get much for him.  

I agree. It’s a little weird, though some of that was a product of playing through an injury. But he’s young, I know what I saw, and I know what the data say. And even so, I’d rather have an empty roster spot than Martin, not to mention the extra draft capital we threw in to a lopsided trade.

[KillerLeft]

There has to be something not quite right about Grimes.  Besides the fact that he gets traded a lot, the teams that move on from him don't get much for him.  

He was highly touted in NY once upon a time.  Then they paid two seconds to send expirings Flynn, Fournier and Arcidiacono to Detroit for expiring Alec Burks and expiring old man Bogdanovic.  No one played for the team they were traded to the next season.  If you take out the supposed benefit of the short term rentals, NY basically paid Detroit 2 seconds to take Grimes.

A few months later Detroit traded him for THJ and two seconds.  Note that THJ didn't stick with Detroit once his contract was up.  Again, a rental, but Detroit got paid the seconds...mainly because of the difference in salary the trade created.

A few months later Dallas was willing to pay a second to swap expiring Grimes for 3 years of Caleb Martin.  

Despite fairly good numbers at times, no one seems to want to pay Grimes and the assets it takes to get him when he's traded are less than impressive.  At the time it all happened, it made sense to move from Green to Grimes and from THJ to Klay.  Green finally got to start and saw his usage actually go down on a bad team.  And, as mentioned, THJ was a rental and is now a Vet Min.  But, Klay and Martin don't seem to be the answer either...especially at guard.  Because of his status around the league, you can't just ship Thompson off to some cellar dweller.   Meanwhile, Martin looks like someone who is going to really be costly from a tax standpoint if he's indeed the 12th man or so on the depth chart.

Totally. It's Christian Wood, all over again. There's some sort of disconnect between the player fans think he is, the player the league wants him to be, and the player HE thinks he is/wants to be. Could it be any more obvious at this point that he has overplayed his hand in these latest negotiations? 

One thing that always strikes me is that fans tend to think players are what they are. They think everyone who can score 20 per game does score 20 per game. I think it's much more structured than that, and featured roles go to who the teams want playing them for a wide variety of reasons. I imagine there are tons and tons of players who could've put up the numbers Grimes did for injured, tanking Philly, had they been dropped into that situation. 

Further, the salaries are more connected to those roles than to what players can do, in a way. It just seems so obvious to me that Grimes believes his career should be on some sort of Dwayne Wade track, when the league and fans are screaming about how good he is (or would be) if he would just see himself as Danny Green, KCP, etc. 

I predict that no matter what he ends up signing for in Philly (it will be much less than what he thinks he deserves), he will fall out of favor with the coaches and they'll move on from him pretty quickly.

[DallasMaverick]

Totally. It's Christian Wood, all over again. There's some sort of disconnect between the player fans think he is, the player the league wants him to be, and the player HE thinks he is/wants to be. Could it be any more obvious at this point that he has overplayed his hand in these latest negotiations? 

One thing that always strikes me is that fans tend to think players are what they are. They think everyone who can score 20 per game does score 20 per game. I think it's much more structured than that, and featured roles go to who the teams want playing them for a wide variety of reasons. I imagine there are tons and tons of players who could've put up the numbers Grimes did for injured, tanking Philly, had they been dropped into that situation. 

Further, the salaries are more connected to those roles than to what players can do, in a way. It just seems so obvious to me that Grimes believes his career should be on some sort of Dwayne Wade track, when the league and fans are screaming about how good he is (or would be) if he would just see himself as Danny Green, KCP, etc. 

I predict that no matter what he ends up signing for in Philly (it will be much less than what he thinks he deserves), he will fall out of favor with the coaches and they'll move on from him pretty quickly.

or Cam Thomas?

[KillerLeft]

or Cam Thomas?

Another good example, yeah. 

There is no shortage of players who become resentful of the opportunities they're denied, rather than appreciative of the ones they're offered.

[KillerLeft]

That's the reason I would prioritize moving him as soon as possible. I've been trying to update my tax calculation, and with some basic assumptions (7% cap increase, max PJ extension, DLO opting in, 15th pick in the draft, 2 vet mins) I have the Mavs at $25M over the luxury tax next year resulting in a tax payment of $117M. Dumping Martin's contract and replacing him with a vet min saves $58M.

They're going to have to shed salary next offseason without a doubt.

If you think the Mavs' current rotation can win, then yeah, dumping Martin at some point becomes important. 

However, I don't think they can win without adding a top 6 type of impact player at just the right spot (the right role) in some sort of consolidation trade. In that scenario, I'd be perfectly happy with Martin ending up as the 8th or 9th man. I think he's better than many teams' answer for that role, frankly. 

In fact, I'd say the approach to the current roster is so off, stylistically, that it's making useful players LOOK like players you need to "dump," and the phenomenon is likely to get worse as this all plays out on the court.

[Mavs2021]

Totally. It's Christian Wood, all over again. There's some sort of disconnect between the player fans think he is, the player the league wants him to be, and the player HE thinks he is/wants to be. Could it be any more obvious at this point that he has overplayed his hand in these latest negotiations? 

One thing that always strikes me is that fans tend to think players are what they are. They think everyone who can score 20 per game does score 20 per game. I think it's much more structured than that, and featured roles go to who the teams want playing them for a wide variety of reasons. I imagine there are tons and tons of players who could've put up the numbers Grimes did for injured, tanking Philly, had they been dropped into that situation. 

Further, the salaries are more connected to those roles than to what players can do, in a way. It just seems so obvious to me that Grimes believes his career should be on some sort of Dwayne Wade track, when the league and fans are screaming about how good he is (or would be) if he would just see himself as Danny Green, KCP, etc. 

I predict that no matter what he ends up signing for in Philly (it will be much less than what he thinks he deserves), he will fall out of favor with the coaches and they'll move on from him pretty quickly.

Knicks prepared the Brunson plan and no space for Grimes.
Detroit obviously didn´t want to pay a player coming off an ACL injury on a poor 25 game sample size ,while they were still in rebuild mode.
Harrison is just a doofus.
76ers just play the market like the Warriors, Nets and Bulls with their RFAs that consider themselves worthy of more than the MLE.

Obviously Grimes is trying to max his salary, while 76ers try to minimize it. Just like Kuminga, Thomas and Giddey.

We´d be better off with the #35 pick and air compared to Martin, who is a glorified towel waiver, who had one play-off hot streak.

[KillerLeft]

Knicks prepared the Brunson plan and no space for Grimes.
Detroit obviously didn´t want to pay a player coming off an ACL injury on a poor 25 game sample size ,while they were still in rebuild mode.
Harrison is just a doofus.
76ers just play the market like the Warriors, Nets and Bulls with their RFAs that consider themselves worthy of more than the MLE.

Obviously Grimes is trying to max his salary, while 76ers try to minimize it. Just like Kuminga, Thomas and Giddey.

We´d be better off with the #35 pick and air compared to Martin, who is a glorified towel waiver, who had one play-off hot streak.

Sure, there's that side of it, too, and I'm not saying the above is incorrect, or doesn't make sense. But, there's a reason Kidd didn't play this guy enough. There's a reason his defense wasn't remotely close to what we thought it would be when he did play here (those two things are linked, for me). There's a reason he's asking for more money than he can possibly get, coming right off of an "empty stats" end of year run in a role he won't be allowed to play next year. 

We can disagree, and I'm not talking about the trade, really, but I, personally will not miss Grimes. I don't think he has any interest in being the player we all wanted.

[Scott41theMavs]

Cam is a rich man's Hardy. A hot(ter) dog who does not contribute to winning. Tony Dumas comes to mind as well.

[KillerLeft]

Cam is a rich man's Hardy. A hot(ter) dog who does not contribute to winning. Tony Dumas comes to mind as well.

I'll go one better, and it ties into the point I'm trying to make about Grimes. 

Cam Thomas is exactly what Hardy would be if he was just given a high-minute role and a green light. I think there are 50 guys in the league who could do that. What you want are the ones who, when they play that role, contribute to winning, and it can be easy to misjudge which side of that fence a particular player falls on, but tons of players could be scoring more points, grabbing more rebounds, etc, than they are. "Counting stats" just don't really teach us much.

[ThisIStheYear]

Another good example, yeah. 

There is no shortage of players who become resentful of the opportunities they're denied, rather than appreciative of the ones they're offered.

The thing is that the “advanced” metrics rate Cam as a crap player and Grimes as a solid to good player. I expect we’ll find out his career development has been victimized by an injury, a crappy GM, and a new CBA that’s killing everyone’s value for a season or two until payrolls adjust. We’ll see.  But Cam as a green lit Hardy is a genius comparison.

[F Gump]

I agree. It’s a little weird, though some of that was a product of playing through an injury. But he’s young, I know what I saw, and I know what the data say. And even so, I’d rather have an empty roster spot than Martin, not to mention the extra draft capital we threw in to a lopsided trade.

Yep. 

That trade was a Nico Special, where.the cap got clogged by an unneeded player (who was injured to boot), and the Mavs PAID to make it happen. 

They would be so much better right now, in about every way, if that trade never happened, and I am assuming Grimes would not have been kept. 

Martin is costing them HUGE extra tax payments. If they can't move him for free (or at all, at some point), Dumont may end up paying something like 100M in extra tax, for nothing. 

Nico is such an idiot as a GM. Its stunning how bad he is.

[loki]

If you think the Mavs' current rotation can win, then yeah, dumping Martin at some point becomes important. 

However, I don't think they can win without adding a top 6 type of impact player at just the right spot (the right role) in some sort of consolidation trade. In that scenario, I'd be perfectly happy with Martin ending up as the 8th or 9th man. I think he's better than many teams' answer for that role, frankly. 

In fact, I'd say the approach to the current roster is so off, stylistically, that it's making useful players LOOK like players you need to "dump," and the phenomenon is likely to get worse as this all plays out on the court.

I could see Martin becoming useful again after the right consolidation trade. With better shot creation and floor spacing I agree he could still be a solid role player. The challenge is going to be finding that impact player without selling the farm and jeopardizing the ability to build around Flagg down the road. I think a Derrick White level player is probably necessary, but a guy like that won't come cheap.

[Chicagojk]

The Grimes trade may wind up being bad. We have not seen the healthy or the Miami version of Martin. Grimes played really well for a depleted Philly team. Still though, I can see the vision with that trade. I would not have done it. I would not have done it with the second round pick. But I understand the thought process.

Nico hasn't been 100%. Like most GM's they get it right and get it wrong. Most times you can understand the thought process. There is only one trade that has been unexplainable. Unfortunately it is the big one. Nico let his ego get in the way. He thought he put together very good team that was a championship team that Luka was a part of. He thought LUka was putting this vision in jeopardy. In reality, he put together a really good team that was a contender because of Luka. That is a big miss. Thinking he still had a contender, even with a very good Davis, is just a mistake you can't make. Franchise killer. He may have gotten rescued by Flagg. We will see.

[Smitty]

I have a sneaky suspicion that Martin WILL start the season in the Mavs 10-man rotation. Really, Kidd plays 11-man rotations in the regular season. Still, when everyone is healthy, I see B-Will being the odd man out. I like him, but DLO and Exum are better and Flagg will play some point-forward also. In those instances, B-Will doesn’t provide the same off-ball advantages that DLO and Exum do.

In the end, Nico traded for Martin, and his salary/skillset tells me that he’ll play. At least to start the season. He’s by far the best POA defender on the team and has some playmaking ability. Nico/Kidd will give him the rope early, to see if the vision/trade was what they thought it’d be.

DLO 26 - Exum 16 - (Flagg 6)
Klay 24 - Christie 16 - Martin 8
Flagg 24 - Naji 16 - (Martin 8)
AD 22 - PJW 26
Gafford 20 - Lively 18 - (AD 10)

AD 32
Flagg 30
PJW 26
DLO 26
Klay 24
Gafford 20

Lively 18
Exum 16
Christie 16
Naji 16
Martin 16


This will be so rare, that it’s almost not worth talking about. I imagine there will only be a handful of games where EVERYONE is healthy, but it’s easy to see a path where these 11 all get minutes they’re used to getting, even in the ~10 games they’re all available.

[KillerLeft]

I have a sneaky suspicion that Martin WILL start the season in the Mavs 10-man rotation. Really, Kidd plays 11-man rotations in the regular season. Still, when everyone is healthy, I see B-Will being the odd man out. I like him, but DLO and Exum are better and Flagg will play some point-forward also. In those instances, B-Will doesn’t provide the same off-ball advantages that DLO and Exum do.

In the end, Nico traded for Martin, and his salar/skillset tells me that he’ll play. At least to start the season. He’s by far the best POA defender on the team and has some playmaking ability. Nico/Kidd will give him the rope early, to see if the vision/trade was what they thought it’d be.

DLO 26 - Exum 16 - (Flagg 6)
Klay 24 - Christie 16 - Martin 8
Flagg 24 - Naji 16 - (Martin 8)
AD 22 - PJW 26
Gafford 20 - Lively 18 - (AD 10)

AD 32
Flagg 30
PJW 26
DLO 26
Klay 24
Gafford 20

Lively 18
Exum 16
Christie 16
Naji 16
Martin 16


This will be so rare, that it’s almost not worth talking about. I imagine there will only be a handful of games where EVERYONE is healthy, but it’s easy to see a path where these 11 all get minutes they’re used to getting, even in the ~10 games they’re all available.

I think you're on the right track (at least "right" in terms of what they're probably thinking), but I think that's shortchanging both Christie and Marshall a bit. I do agree that it's being widely assumed that Martin is end of the bench useless when, in reality, he does bring some skills the current group needs (even if it's not easy to find a way to get them on the court). 

Having said that, I think it would be a mistake not to get Christie at least 20 minutes per, healthy roster or not. He represents the best on-roster chance to become the type of player they badly need, I think. Defensively, at least.

[Smitty]

I think you're on the right track (at least "right" in terms of what they're probably thinking), but I think that's shortchanging both Christie and Marshall a bit. I do agree that it's being widely assumed that Martin is end of the bench useless when, in reality, he does bring some skills the current group needs (even if it's not easy to find a way to get them on the court). 

Having said that, I think it would be a mistake not to get Christie at least 20 minutes per, healthy roster or not. He represents the best on-roster chance to become the type of player they badly need, I think. Defensively, at least.

Re. Christie… If he takes another step this season, I can see the Mavs moving Klay at the TDL or next summer, as an expiring, and sliding Christie to the starting SG.

Still, these are not season average MPG numbers. This is just when everyone is healthy, which will rarely be the case. I think Max will be around that 20 mpg avg season long.

Same for Naji.

[Winter]

Marcus Smart to the Lakers.

Apparently Luka pressed hard for him.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2025/07/marc...zards.html

Just noticed another thread on this trade elsewhere. I'll leave this one up.

[Chicagojk]

I saw the Wizards are releasing Blake Wesley who they received in a trade from San Antonio. I wonder if he finds a spot or if he will need to fight for a two way. Former first round pick from a few years ago.