AROUND the NBA:

[cow]

OKC's defense is just stifling. 

OKC definitely needs a clear #2 on offense.  Thoughts on if JDub will develop into that, or will they need to bring one in?

I think JDub can get there and I'd worry about someone else stunting his growth.  He's still a puppy.  That said, I might take a swing at Giannis and center the trade around Chet + Salary Matching (Hartenstein, Dort, and Joe are the biggest money makers outside of SGA) + Picks. I guess it depends on how you view Chet, but I don't think there is enough balls to go around with both he and JDub trying to play second fiddle as SGA is going to get his touches.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

I think JDub can get there and I'd worry about someone else stunting his growth.  He's still a puppy.  That said, I might take a swing at Giannis and center the trade around Chet + Salary Matching (Hartenstein, Dort, and Joe are the biggest money makers outside of SGA) + Picks.

Completely agree on both accounts.  JDub is my 2nd favorite current NBA player.  I think he still has upside on both sides of the court.

Giannis is interesting.  They certainly have the most assets in the NBA, a roster of young studs and an embarrassing amount of picks still.  8 FRPs in the next 4 years!

[F Gump]

As I have noted before, I would caution against the assumptions that (a) the results of the last game are determinative of the next aka new-found momentum in a series, and (b) the change of venue won't really matter.

In former days, the goal of the lesser seed in the Finals was to get a split on the road, then return home and protect home court. IND has done step 1. And and after their G1 win, its possible all we saw was a letdown in G2 after mission accomplished by G1. 

Now we see how much their game is raised by playing at home and whether they can protect HCA. 

This series is far from over, and IND (not OKC) has the benefit of HCA from here. Just saying. Be smart. Don't overreact.

Does anyone else see this ^ yet? If you wager, I hope you are listening.

EVERY GAME in a playoff series is a whole series to itself, and there is no such thing as momentum. And the most meaningful game is the next one, not the last one. At this point, if you think this series is over (either way), you aren't thinking.

The natural inclination is to overreact and think the last game told you what the next game will look like. But it didn't. Still.

IND has HCA. But now, it all rides on the next game - where OKC in only one game can re-gain HCA, or in one game IND playing at home can put a 3-1 stranglehold on the series.

That means BOTH TEAMS will be desperate to win G4. Neither can afford to lose. IND gets the advantage of playing it at home, and this time the venue does NOT change. But anything can happen.

Just saying. Be smart. Don't overreact.

[cow]

Completely agree on both accounts.  JDub is my 2nd favorite current NBA player.  I think he still has upside on both sides of the court.

Giannis is interesting.  They certainly have the most assets in the NBA, a roster of young studs and an embarrassing amount of picks still.  8 FRPs in the next 4 years!

JDub reminds me a lot of Kawhi, but without the enigmatic personality.  If he get become a more consistent mid-range and outside shooter, watch out.  

I'm not sure what to make of Chet, but I think he and Williams need more shots than will be afforded when playing next to SGA and SGA isn't going anywhere as he's just 26 (which is crazy to think about).  Williams is the player I'd invest in and that's  not factoring in the injury concerns I have for Chet.

[cow]

This wasn't on my 2025 bingo card.

https://x.com/ComplexSports/status/1932904314399252778

Demarcus Cousins is suspended for the remainder of the season after scratching his balls and making a heckler sniff his hands.

[Knutsen]

Does anyone else see this ^ yet? If you wager, I hope you are listening.

EVERY GAME in a playoff series is a whole series to itself, and there is no such thing as momentum. And the most meaningful game is the next one, not the last one. At this point, if you think this series is over (either way), you aren't thinking.

The natural inclination is to overreact and think the last game told you what the next game will look like. But it didn't. Still.

IND has HCA. But now, it all rides on the next game - where OKC in only one game can re-gain HCA, or in one game IND playing at home can put a 3-1 stranglehold on the series.

That means BOTH TEAMS will be desperate to win G4. Neither can afford to lose. IND gets the advantage of playing it at home, and this time the venue does NOT change. But anything can happen.

Just saying. Be smart. Don't overreact.

What surprised me the most was that OKC and especially SGA looked completely gassed in the decisive last minutes. 

If the Pacers can repeat this constant attack on both sides of the ball, coming in waves at a frantic pace, and Daigneault continues to lose trust in his rotation like he did in the second half and in the Denver series I see a clear advantage for these relentless Pacers in game 4. Especially since there‘s only one day off for the only time in these finals.

[F Gump]

What surprised me the most was that OKC and especially SGA looked completely gassed in the decisive last minutes. 

If the Pacers can repeat this constant attack on both sides of the ball, coming in waves at a frantic pace, and Daigneault continues to lose trust in his rotation like he did in the second half and in the Denver series I see a clear advantage for these relentless Pacers in game 4. Especially since there‘s only one day off for the only time in these finals.

"If the Pacers can repeat this constant attack on both sides of the ball " ---- Isn't the constant attack from everyone and the hurried pace and the trapping pressure on every possession the normal IND style of play? I think that's their secret sauce, because they are used to it, and the grind of it (mental as well as physical, on both ends) wears down the opponent. Even if you get a lead, it's going to be hard to get that advantage to the finish line without cracking.

I really like that kind of basketball, where there is always pressure and the ball moves and every player is potentially part of every play on both ends. One minute's goat can be the next minute's hero. Every player matters and has to contribute. I've been so beaten down by the one-man show offense that the Mavs and so many others have gone to in recent years, and to me this is refreshing and so fun.

SIDE NOTE:  No one notices, but Indy's FO work has been stellar. Last summer they basically did NOTHING to "improve" their team. They just re-signed the guys they had that needed new deals, and then let the improvement come from development from within. The one moving part has been looking for a usable backup C, starting with a summer minimum salary NG signing of Wiseman (gone via injury waiver in early Dec), and leaving their 15th slot open to try out some others. They took Bryant off MIA hands in a salary dump in mid-Dec that refilled the 14th slot of Wiseman, and signed some various temps (NGs, 10-days) for minimum salary C help in that 15th slot (eventually ending with Bradley), but it's really been a stable team. 

Don't look now, but this Finals run may be only the beginning of IND being a major contender for several years to come. Assuming they don't stupidly tear down a winner like Cuban did, and Nico after him, they have a great foundation in place to work from. They are really good already, of course. They have a really smart coach to help them navigate the road ahead. Money is very manageable - they are under the tax line, and also don't have any looming cap issues going forward (among their regulars, only Turner this summer, and Mathurin in 2026, are going to be needing new deals anytime soon).

[Knutsen]

"If the Pacers can repeat this constant attack on both sides of the ball " ---- Isn't the constant attack from everyone and the hurried pace and the trapping pressure on every possession the normal IND style of play? I think that's their secret sauce, because they are used to it, and the grind of it (mental as well as physical, on both ends) wears down the opponent. Even if you get a lead, it's going to be hard to get that advantage to the finish line without cracking.

I really like that kind of basketball, where there is always pressure and the ball moves and every player is potentially part of every play on both ends. One minute's goat can be the next minute's hero. Every player matters and has to contribute. I've been so beaten down by the one-man show offense that the Mavs and so many others have gone to in recent years, and to me this is refreshing and so fun.

SIDE NOTE:  No one notices, but Indy's FO work has been stellar. Last summer they basically did NOTHING to "improve" their team. They just re-signed the guys they had that needed new deals, and then let the improvement come from development from within. The one moving part has been looking for a usable backup C, starting with a summer minimum salary NG signing of Wiseman (gone via injury waiver in early Dec), and leaving their 15th slot open to try out some others. They took Bryant off MIA hands in a salary dump in mid-Dec that refilled the 14th slot of Wiseman, and signed some various temps (NGs, 10-days) for minimum salary C help in that 15th slot (eventually ending with Bradley), but it's really been a stable team. 

Don't look now, but this Finals run may be only the beginning of IND being a major contender for several years to come. Assuming they don't stupidly tear down a winner like Cuban did, and Nico after him, they have a great foundation in place to work from. They are really good already, of course. They have a really smart coach to help them navigate the road ahead. Money is very manageable - they are under the tax line, and also don't have any looming cap issues going forward (among their regulars, only Turner this summer, and Mathurin in 2026, are going to be needing new deals anytime soon).

You are right - they as a team are very well capable of, especially at home it’s wave after wave and hustle play after hustle play. The question will be if the referees allow them to be physical enough in game 4 to really tire SGA or if he gets three or four more easy foul calls, they are in the bonus and in foul trouble early and are forced to scale back the intensity.

I agree with you, that’s a hell of a group of young, athletic, selfless two-way players on reasonable deals. If Miles Turner doesn’t leave and they have to trade an asset for a replacement - Mathurin for PJ or Gafford anyone? - then they are here to stay. Them and the Knicks could be the teams battling it out in the East for years to come.

[david75090]

This wasn't on my 2025 bingo card.

https://x.com/ComplexSports/status/1932904314399252778

Demarcus Cousins is suspended for the remainder of the season after scratching his balls and making a heckler sniff his hands.

That was mentioned in the Rule Book? "Thou shalt not..."?

[HoosierDaddyKid]

You are right - they as a team are very well capable of, especially at home it’s wave after wave and hustle play after hustle play. The question will be if the referees allow them to be physical enough in game 4 to really tire SGA or if he gets three or four more easy foul calls, they are in the bonus and in foul trouble early and are forced to scale back the intensity.

I agree with you, that’s a hell of a group of young, athletic, selfless two-way players on reasonable deals. If Miles Turner doesn’t leave and they have to trade an asset for a replacement - Mathurin for PJ or Gafford anyone? - then they are here to stay. Them and the Knicks could be the teams battling it out in the East for years to come.

Well...looks like they got it done at home, 116-107 to go up 2-1 in the series.  They gave OKC a taste of their own medicine, as they're defensive pressure stifled the Thunder, and SGA.  Haliburton, Mathurin, and Siakam did the rest. I really like this Pacers team. They are well put together for the style they play.  You very seldom can count them out of any game. I see them being a force in the East whether they win it all this year, or not. Cleveland is still around. You have to include them. I can't say the same for NY, especially now that they don't have a viable coach after unceremoniously firing the best coach they've had in years. I also doubt Indy gives up Mathurin who fits what they do. The teams to watch on the come up are Orlando and Detroit.

[Chicagojk]

I love, love how the Pacers press full court all game long. Tough to do in the regular season and it is hard, but you make nothing easy for the opponent.

I have gone from knowing who Nembhard his, but not really knowing him to thinking he may be my favorite role player in the league. Smart, good defense, doesn't make mistakes, doesn't turn the ball over, and seems to make all the right plays. I am a huge fan.

I thought last night the moment looked a little big for Toppin. Rick pulled him in the third, but gave him a run in the fourth and made two huge defensive plays and a monster dunk that really saved the game.

Love how Rick develops bench players. McConnell was good before Rick but he sort of has him in that JJB role. Mathurin probably wants (and deserves) a bigger role in the future, but to be able to play that card and for him to produce after some limited minutes is huge.

[Chicagojk]

I like him fine, but he's not the perimeter threat I hoped he would be. 

One of the things I liked all "draft Walter Clayton" posts in this forum, was that he's type of guy like to see coming off the bench in certain situations. Hardy is just too inconsistent and he has terrible tunnel vision on most nights. I really don't know if Walter Clayton is exactly who I want at that spot, but that's the "type". I'd really like a reliable ball handler who can shoot outside and isn't afraid to - a Seth Curry type (his first stint here anyway).

Another way to look at this is what happens if Klay gets hurt. That could happen pretty easily, and Max just doesn't provide any consistent threat from outside. Exum really isn't that guy either. I don't think we need anyone playing 25 mpg, but we could use some situational help. Powell will just sit most nights and players like Hardy and Martin can all be moved for something more useful. 

I think you can make a more productive offensive bench by moving some players who are after-thoughts on this team.

He definately needs to be a little better open three shooter.  I also think he needs to be a little more impactful on man to man defense.   Being able to create off the dribble as a secondary creator is huge.  That is his big swing skill.

Although, I like him.  I think he is a smart player and mostly makes the correct plays.    He has great size and is still young.  I am not sure if he is a long term starter, but I think he is a good player and should be in their plans moving forward. 

Although point taken.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I really like this Pacers team. They are well put together for the style they play.  You very seldom can count them out of any game. I see them being a force in the East whether they win it all this year, or not. I also doubt Indy gives up Mathurin who fits what they do.

They are so fun.  The bench saved them last night and the funny part is most here would turn up their nose at Toppin, McConnell, Shepherd and Mathurin.  I know for sure with Toppin as that was the reaction I got when I brought him up in the past.  They got him for two seconds.  Good drafting, good adds around the fringes, really smart to trade what was their star for Haliburton, smart cap management on Turner’s last deal and then when they were ready they got Siakam for a bad first and a Top 4 protected first.

BTW, if I were Brooklyn, I’d make offers for Mathurin and Kuminga.

[DallasMaverick]

"If the Pacers can repeat this constant attack on both sides of the ball " ---- Isn't the constant attack from everyone and the hurried pace and the trapping pressure on every possession the normal IND style of play? I think that's their secret sauce, because they are used to it, and the grind of it (mental as well as physical, on both ends) wears down the opponent. Even if you get a lead, it's going to be hard to get that advantage to the finish line without cracking.

I really like that kind of basketball, where there is always pressure and the ball moves and every player is potentially part of every play on both ends. One minute's goat can be the next minute's hero. Every player matters and has to contribute. I've been so beaten down by the one-man show offense that the Mavs and so many others have gone to in recent years, and to me this is refreshing and so fun.

SIDE NOTE:  No one notices, but Indy's FO work has been stellar. Last summer they basically did NOTHING to "improve" their team. They just re-signed the guys they had that needed new deals, and then let the improvement come from development from within. The one moving part has been looking for a usable backup C, starting with a summer minimum salary NG signing of Wiseman (gone via injury waiver in early Dec), and leaving their 15th slot open to try out some others. They took Bryant off MIA hands in a salary dump in mid-Dec that refilled the 14th slot of Wiseman, and signed some various temps (NGs, 10-days) for minimum salary C help in that 15th slot (eventually ending with Bradley), but it's really been a stable team. 

Don't look now, but this Finals run may be only the beginning of IND being a major contender for several years to come. Assuming they don't stupidly tear down a winner like Cuban did, and Nico after him, they have a great foundation in place to work from. They are really good already, of course. They have a really smart coach to help them navigate the road ahead. Money is very manageable - they are under the tax line, and also don't have any looming cap issues going forward (among their regulars, only Turner this summer, and Mathurin in 2026, are going to be needing new deals anytime soon).

Makes you wonder if Carlisle left the Mavs because he knew he’d never be able to play his style with Luka around. Just incompatible.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Understatement.


Hopefully Nesmith can get healthy.  And if you get a few games of Thomas Bryant and Toppin going off, they have a punchers chance.  They aren't going to be able to smoother SGA like they did Brunson, his size and the refs aren't going to allow it.  Pacers will also not have the benefit of a KAT-level player being a no-show as OKC is more consistent.  Carlisle is a coaching advantage though.  Should be a fun series. 

Thibs limiting Robinson's role in the second half was so strange as he was dominate on the offensive glass tonight.

Makes you wonder if Carlisle left the Mavs because he knew he’d never be able to play his style with Luka around. Just incompatible.

Very good point. I use to see Rick and Luka snipe at each other on the sidelines if Luka disagreed with Rick and vice versa. Luka is a diva. The Pacers don't have any, they don't care who gets the press clippings.

[F Gump]

BTW, if I were Brooklyn, I’d make offers for Mathurin and Kuminga.

Kuminga should be easily gettable, but I see no reason why IND would be letting go of any of their core players. What does NY have that IND needs so badly, that will project to be more useful to them than Mathurin?

[DanSchwartzgan]

Kuminga should be easily gettable, but I see no reason why IND would be letting go of any of their core players. What does NY (Brooklyn) have that IND needs so badly, that will project to be more useful to them than Mathurin?

They have Space/Money.  Mathurin is RFA.  I’m envisioning them giving Mathurin an offer sheet (and doing a S&T for Kuminga).    Indy has said they will pay the tax, but they need to fit Turner and Mathurin into their budget and fill out the rest of the roster.

[cow]

No chance they let Mathurin loose.

[Reunion Mav]

"If the Pacers can repeat this constant attack on both sides of the ball " ---- Isn't the constant attack from everyone and the hurried pace and the trapping pressure on every possession the normal IND style of play? I think that's their secret sauce, because they are used to it, and the grind of it (mental as well as physical, on both ends) wears down the opponent. Even if you get a lead, it's going to be hard to get that advantage to the finish line without cracking.

I really like that kind of basketball, where there is always pressure and the ball moves and every player is potentially part of every play on both ends. One minute's goat can be the next minute's hero. Every player matters and has to contribute. I've been so beaten down by the one-man show offense that the Mavs and so many others have gone to in recent years, and to me this is refreshing and so fun.

SIDE NOTE:  No one notices, but Indy's FO work has been stellar. Last summer they basically did NOTHING to "improve" their team. They just re-signed the guys they had that needed new deals, and then let the improvement come from development from within. The one moving part has been looking for a usable backup C, starting with a summer minimum salary NG signing of Wiseman (gone via injury waiver in early Dec), and leaving their 15th slot open to try out some others. They took Bryant off MIA hands in a salary dump in mid-Dec that refilled the 14th slot of Wiseman, and signed some various temps (NGs, 10-days) for minimum salary C help in that 15th slot (eventually ending with Bradley), but it's really been a stable team. 

Don't look now, but this Finals run may be only the beginning of IND being a major contender for several years to come. Assuming they don't stupidly tear down a winner like Cuban did, and Nico after him, they have a great foundation in place to work from. They are really good already, of course. They have a really smart coach to help them navigate the road ahead. Money is very manageable - they are under the tax line, and also don't have any looming cap issues going forward (among their regulars, only Turner this summer, and Mathurin in 2026, are going to be needing new deals anytime soon).

Internal development is one of my favorite things to watch. It is not exciting during trade season so it is rarely talked about. Keeping the same regular players together can lead to much better internal development but only when they fit and have good chemistry. I do like Indiana for their style and strategy as well as Rick of course who can still coach. 

OKC is incredibly good as is this series. But in the end OKC great individuals tried moves and shots exactly like what had worked earlier. There was no variation at all so a fresher Indiana team got a series of stops. Unlike Luka and SGA who have numerous moves and strategies they go to in winning time, there #2&3 level guys played young and less skilled as well as tired forms of hero ball in the last 5 minutes. It cost them.

[F Gump]

They have Space/Money.  Mathurin is RFA.  I’m envisioning them giving Mathurin an offer sheet (and doing a S&T for Kuminga).    Indy has said they will pay the tax, but they need to fit Turner and Mathurin into their budget and fill out the rest of the roster.

Yes BKN is doing a complete rebuild (yes I misread that as NY, oops) and can spend wildly in a way no one else can.

But Mathurin isn't a FA this summer of any kind. The Pacers' only FA of any concern is Turner and he wants to stay. I'm not sure he even makes it to free agency.

SIDE NOTE:  Kuminga? Should only be a matter of money for BKN, although who knows if BKN would want him. But no SNT - I see no chance GS makes him a RFA in a play to keep him (he's worn out his welcome in GS and his $23M QO is far bigger than his value and not worth the risk of putting on the table unless you want him).