Trade & FA 2024-25:

[mvossman]

I think DJJ is actually a little better now then he used to be. He got more minutes in Dallas and improved. He got more minutes in LAC and improved again slightly - so far.

But he wasn't coming back to Dallas unless he got those minutes. If we can believe the rumors, he wanted to start games. So there was no getting him back I don't think.

I personally think Klay and Naji are fine. I don't need DJJ back to like this team we have.

Nobody is arguing that we needed to keep DJJ in order to like the current team.  I was simply pointing out the change in direction from DJJ to Klay as soon as Nico had no other influences (and then we went down a rathole of DJJ vs Naji).  We had a formula that got us through the Western conference, which was an incredible accomplishment.  I thought it was strange to break up that formula to go after a 34 year old player when the timeline was 10+ years.  This is about a pattern of behavior that continued with the Luka trade and I am afraid will continue in the offseason.  History says you cannot make these kind of massive changes to a roster and win right away.  So if you are constantly changing, you are constantly not winning.  We have already turned the timeline from 10+ years to a 2-3 year window.  I fear our two stars will already be past their prime by the time we are ready to make noise in the playoffs, and more significant moves (like KD) will reset the clock again.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Nobody is arguing that we needed to keep DJJ in order to like the current team.  I was simply pointing out the change in direction from DJJ to Klay as soon as Nico had no other influences (and then we went down a rathole of DJJ vs Naji).  We had a formula that got us through the Western conference, which was an incredible accomplishment.  I thought it was strange to break up that formula to go after a 34 year old player when the timeline was 10+ years.  This is about a pattern of behavior that continued with the Luka trade and I am afraid will continue in the offseason.  History says you cannot make these kind of massive changes to a roster and win right away.  So if you are constantly changing, you are constantly not winning.  We have already turned the timeline from 10+ years to a 2-3 year window.  I fear our two stars will already be past their prime by the time we are ready to make noise in the playoffs, and more significant moves (like KD) will reset the clock again.

You kinda sandbag headlines that don't meet your point.  AD won a championship first year in LAL, so the basis of your statement (including the player we're discussing) is completely bunk

[SleepingHero]

@ShamsCharania
The Grizzlies are releasing Johnny Davis to create roster space, sources said. Davis, the No. 10 pick in 2022, is expected to receive some interest as a free agent.

Could be a good summer league target

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

@ShamsCharania
The Grizzlies are releasing Johnny Davis to create roster space, sources said. Davis, the No. 10 pick in 2022, is expected to receive some interest as a free agent.

Could be a good summer league target

They *may regret not taking JayDub

[Chicagojk]

Bill Simmons
@BillSimmons
·
43m
The Body Language Doctor almost needed medical attention in Austin last night after sitting near the Suns bench and watching them in person for 2+ hours. Wow. That’s an unhappy basketball team and there’s no counter-argument. Sorry.


******************8
It is looking like we are past moving Kevin Durant. It may be time for a complete reset and move Booker too. Would you trade Lively and picks and other things for Booker?

Houston continues to make smart decisions. Didn't they give the nets pick back this year for some of the Suns picks? The nets continue to not operate very smartly. They currently have the 6th best odds for the worst record.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

All the rumors I’ve seen are that Houston has been holding on to their assets in case Booker becomes available.

[Chicagojk]

All the rumors I’ve seen are that Houston has been holding on to their assets in case Booker becomes available.

Yeah, they will tough to beat.  They can give some of PHX picks back.  Tough to compete against that over picks further down the road.

[DallasMaverick]

Bill Simmons
@BillSimmons
·
43m
The Body Language Doctor almost needed medical attention in Austin last night after sitting near the Suns bench and watching them in person for 2+ hours. Wow. That’s an unhappy basketball team and there’s no counter-argument. Sorry.


******************8
It is looking like we are past moving Kevin Durant.  It may be time for a complete reset and move Booker too.  Would you trade Lively and picks and other things for Booker?

Houston continues to make smart decisions.  Didn't they give the nets pick back this year for some of the Suns picks?  The nets continue to not operate very smartly.  They currently have the 6th best odds for the worst record.

I think the Phoenix Suns and Brooklyn Nets are instructive to us. Maybe Clippers also. Maybe Lakers.

What happens when a team goes "all-in" (Particularly when they go for the three-superstar-plus-minimums), but then aren't good enough to compete for a championship?

Many times, they've given up draft capital to acquire said superstars. Often, they've ventured well into cap territory, so they have very little flexibility about changing course mid-stream, whether through free agency, trades, or the draft.

Wouldn't you rather have one or two superstars, and several quality MLE-level guys? Their ages can be spaced out a bit, so you've got a mix of youngsters with potential plus veterans who can win now.

[audiosway]

I think the Phoenix Suns and Brooklyn Nets are instructive to us. Maybe Clippers also. Maybe Lakers.

What happens when a team goes "all-in" (Particularly when they go for the three-superstar-plus-minimums), but then aren't good enough to compete for a championship?

Many times, they've given up draft capital to acquire said superstars. Often, they've ventured well into cap territory, so they have very little flexibility about changing course mid-stream, whether through free agency, trades, or the draft.

Wouldn't you rather have one or two superstars, and several quality MLE-level guys? Their ages can be spaced out a bit, so you've got a mix of youngsters with potential plus veterans who can win now.

Couldn't agree more. That's why I really like Lively, PJ, Gaff, and Naji in there. Not just G league guys filling spots. That doesn't work anymore. Not with the current cap situation.

[mvossman]

I think the Phoenix Suns and Brooklyn Nets are instructive to us. Maybe Clippers also. Maybe Lakers.

What happens when a team goes "all-in" (Particularly when they go for the three-superstar-plus-minimums), but then aren't good enough to compete for a championship?

Many times, they've given up draft capital to acquire said superstars. Often, they've ventured well into cap territory, so they have very little flexibility about changing course mid-stream, whether through free agency, trades, or the draft.

Wouldn't you rather have one or two superstars, and several quality MLE-level guys? Their ages can be spaced out a bit, so you've got a mix of youngsters with potential plus veterans who can win now.

There is no doubt.  Which is why it is going to be brutal when Nico sends everything for KD.

[cow]

There is no doubt.  Which is why it is going to be brutal when Nico sends everything for KD.

I can't wait for this to happen.

[audiosway]

If he overachieved in Dallas then why is he playing better in LA?  He is shooting 37% from 3, scoring 15 points per 36 with a 60% TS.  He is turning into DFS.  If we had this years version of him, there would have been even less reason to let him go.

The easy answer is more touches and playing with a PG that has a much lower usage rate. The other real answer is different scheme and different role. He has improved slightly based on the bigger role he got with Dallas.

The real sticking point though is that while DJJ had a great year with Dallas they aren't winning a title starting him. Or DFS for that matter. I like both of those guys. The Mavs got to the finals and looked like world beaters until Boston turned it on. That series was ugly. They lost on offense and defense in that series.

Your argument of keeping DJJ and running it back with the whole team would be valid if the games in the finals had been close. The 4 games Dallas lost were by a total of 50 points. They broke 100 once in 5 games. Slight incremental improvements from DJJ aren't fixing that. That series was likely a wakeup call for Nico and Kidd.

[Chicagojk]

I think the Phoenix Suns and Brooklyn Nets are instructive to us. Maybe Clippers also. Maybe Lakers.

What happens when a team goes "all-in" (Particularly when they go for the three-superstar-plus-minimums), but then aren't good enough to compete for a championship?

Many times, they've given up draft capital to acquire said superstars. Often, they've ventured well into cap territory, so they have very little flexibility about changing course mid-stream, whether through free agency, trades, or the draft.

Wouldn't you rather have one or two superstars, and several quality MLE-level guys? Their ages can be spaced out a bit, so you've got a mix of youngsters with potential plus veterans who can win now.

I think that is fair.  Especially when most of the good teams are filled with really good depth.    although we could argue non stop if we were better positioned prior to the trade.  Also, tough to win when you enter every series not having the best dude.    That may or may not happen with Dallas.

[mvossman]

The easy answer is more touches and playing with a PG that has a much lower usage rate. The other real answer is different scheme and different role. He has improved slightly based on the bigger role he got with Dallas.

The real sticking point though is that while DJJ had a great year with Dallas they aren't winning a title starting him. Or DFS for that matter. I like both of those guys. The Mavs got to the finals and looked like world beaters until Boston turned it on. That series was ugly. They lost on offense and defense in that series.

Your argument of keeping DJJ and running it back with the whole team would be valid if the games in the finals had been close. The 4 games Dallas lost were by a total of 50 points. They broke 100 once in 5 games. Slight incremental improvements from DJJ aren't fixing that. That series was likely a wakeup call for Nico and Kidd.

More touches does not explain why he is more efficient.  Getting more touches and being more efficient clearly means he is playing better.

Strong disagree that you can't win a title starting DJJ or DFS.  Most of the recent NBA champions had a player that was not any better than DFS (or what DJJ is doing this year).  Pope with Denver, Loony with GS, the Bucks started PJ freaking Tucker.  The Lakers started Pope, Danny Green (a DFS clone) and Javale freaking McGee.  

I think you are over focusing on one series.  The Mavs were worn down and played poorly.  Boston was at the height of their power.  They already don't look like the same team as last year.  If I had to pick a favorite for championship right now it would probably be OKC, a team we actually beat in the playoffs.

I would argue that when you make it through the very difficult West to the finals, that is the perfect time to make incremental changes.  You had a rookie center and key pieces just added at the TDL.  Improve around the edges (Timmy for Grimes, Naji, Dinwiddie) and give the starting unit more time to actually play together.  

Besides I keep hearing these "reasons" for making moves.  Let DJJ walk for Klay because we need the offense to complete with Boston.  Then a few months later send out your offensive engine because "defense wins championships".  I still feel like the provided narrative is whatever excuse Nico can come up with to get his guys.

[Scott41theMavs]

I think the Phoenix Suns and Brooklyn Nets are instructive to us. Maybe Clippers also. Maybe Lakers.

What happens when a team goes "all-in" (Particularly when they go for the three-superstar-plus-minimums), but then aren't good enough to compete for a championship?

Many times, they've given up draft capital to acquire said superstars. Often, they've ventured well into cap territory, so they have very little flexibility about changing course mid-stream, whether through free agency, trades, or the draft.

Wouldn't you rather have one or two superstars, and several quality MLE-level guys? Their ages can be spaced out a bit, so you've got a mix of youngsters with potential plus veterans who can win now.

You could argue we don't have any superstars now. 

AD might qualify if he were healthy more often. I wouldn't call Kyrie a superstar, especially after the egg he laid in the Finals last year.

[audiosway]

More touches does not explain why he is more efficient.  Getting more touches and being more efficient clearly means he is playing better.

Strong disagree that you can't win a title starting DJJ or DFS.  Most of the recent NBA champions had a player that was not any better than DFS (or what DJJ is doing this year).  Pope with Denver, Loony with GS, the Bucks started PJ freaking Tucker.  The Lakers started Pope, Danny Green (a DFS clone) and Javale freaking McGee.  

I think you are over focusing on one series.  The Mavs were worn down and played poorly.  Boston was at the height of their power.  They already don't look like the same team as last year.  If I had to pick a favorite for championship right now it would probably be OKC, a team we actually beat in the playoffs.

I would argue that when you make it through the very difficult West to the finals, that is the perfect time to make incremental changes.  You had a rookie center and key pieces just added at the TDL.  Improve around the edges (Timmy for Grimes, Naji, Dinwiddie) and give the starting unit more time to actually play together.  

Besides I keep hearing these "reasons" for making moves.  Let DJJ walk for Klay because we need the offense to complete with Boston.  Then a few months later send out your offensive engine because "defense wins championships".  I still feel like the provided narrative is whatever excuse Nico can come up with to get his guys.

Getting more touches is exactly why he is more efficient. The more you do something at practice the better you get at it. The more you do it in game situations the better you get at it under game pressure.

I'm not saying you can't win with one of those guys starting. I'm saying that Dallas team isn't winning with one of those guys starting. They were worn out. I don't like the idea of thinking "surely Boston can't sustain that". I'd rather build a team that can win no matter who they face.

If you go back and look at advanced stats you will see that Luka had a usage rate of 40% during that series. You can't have that from one player and expect to win unless that player is a workout beast. Harden had usage rates close to what Luka averages during the runs to the WCF they had. The only time that has ever been successful is with Michael Jordan. Because MJ had the stamina to be an offensive scoring title/All Offense and a DPOY/All Defense.

Even LeBron has never had usage rates that high. LeBron in his prime on title runs would hit usage of 30-33% after the all star break through the playoffs. Luka is averaging 33% and higher during the season and hitting 40% in the playoffs. That's not sustainable. It's also not winning basketball outside of anyone named MJ.

So, unless Dallas added more playmaking and scoring to get Luka playing off ball and lower usage that wasn't going to happen.

[DallasMaverick]

You could argue we don't have any superstars now. 

AD might qualify if he were healthy more often. I wouldn't call Kyrie a superstar, especially after the egg he laid in the Finals last year.

Hmm. 

One bad series does not a superstar unmake!

[cow]

wrong thread

[SleepingHero]

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/nets-fo...ccounter=1

Nets signing Killian Hayes, waiving Bojan Bogdanovic amid flurry of roster moves

[DanSchwartzgan]

Couldn't agree more. That's why I really like Lively, PJ, Gaff, and Naji in there. Not just G league guys filling spots. That doesn't work anymore. Not with the current cap situation.

I'm in the Anti-Durant trade camp.  I look at Christie as the de facto starter at SG (He closes and gets more minutes than Thompson).  So, with a lineup of Irving, Christie, PJ, AD and Lively all healthy, what do you really need (besides health)?  Who is your weak link that demands to be replaced?  Sorry, I don't see gutting the depth for the spread between KD and PJ (for instance).  I'm GREAT with Christie and PJ as my 4th/5th starters.

We can win games based on our depth. Gafford, Martin, Naji, Thompson (effectively).  The age and history of our stars demands good depth IMHO.  With AD and PJ having positional optionality, you have plenty up front and tons of wing-defender options (maybe too many).  As many many have noted, we could probably use some more creation off the bench.  I'd like to keep Exum, but I don't want to be dependent on Exum.  I'm fine if we trade Hardy and some wing depth for that creation or if we draft it and let it develop behind Exum.  I'm fine going to war the next three years with something like that.  If we get there we get there.  A championship was never guaranteed whether we did the Christie trade or not  

What worries me is the rumors around Nico's attempts to do a KD deal before the deadline and the fact AD gave up $6mm.  Did he really do that so we could trade Grimes for Martin?  I doubt it and that worries me.