Trade & FA 2024-25:

[Chicagojk]

WAY overreaction.  No way DET turns that down.

You are sure about that?  DET for the first time and forever has a good, up and coming young team.  They are not a destination team.   Why rock the boat.  Again, Luka is the superior player.  He also has no ties to Detroit.   While they should have Cade for another 5-6 years at least once he signs an extension from his rookie deal.   

Luka in Detroit would have one year and you can guarantee you teams would be looking to have space for that summer.  So my question, is why rock the boat despite Luka being the superior player.

[LukaMVP]

people were mad we traded luka for an older davis and now some people dream of getting Durant who's about half a decade older?

[F Gump]

But don't AD and KD play the same position? Do we really want KD on the perimeter trying to guard a more mobile SF? or getting switched onto a SG?

Sorry, I can see the marquee value of adding KD, but it would make for some wonky rotations and leave real vulnerability to smaller, quicker teams. Plus, isn't the  implicit assumption that decent vet mins would choose DAL over some of the other high profile teams? Isn't supported much by history.

I think we are talking about 4 players basically splitting 3 positions (C, PF, SF), because you have some position flexibility.

I understand your concerns. But (a) there are more than enough minutes available for all 4 in those 3 positions, in fact you probably have a 5th player getting minutes regularly, and (b) I would think the massive LENGTH of all those players changes the defensive dynamics in a very positive way.

Also, when you have so much length and agility on the floor at the same time, I would not be all that worried about little guys, who are trying to shoot around and through and between the trees, and who are likely to have an incredibly hard time ever getting to the rim. Shot-blockers and disruptors ALL OVER the floor, in fact.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

people were mad we traded luka for an older davis and now some people dream of getting Durant who's about half a decade older?

No one here is dreaming of that bud. Just trying to figure out what Nico is doing is all.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

I thought KD would be a target at the trade deadline at some point.  Although after thinking about it and what it will cost, I am thinking that it won't happen.  I believe both Gafford and PJ would HAVE to be included in any trade with all our picks to get PHX attention.    Knowing it will take a lot more, makes me think it is a pipedream.

If you take the Luka mess away for a moment, you can see the team they are looking to build.  With the age and play style, it needs to be a deep team.    big guys inside and length on the wings.  I really think they need to prioritze a deep roster and not cheap minimum type guys.   

The issue, even if you think there is a path to contention, the roster is not there yet.  I am having trouble to find that last guy who can be a third best player on a championship team.    Ideally, we would have debates if the third best player is player X, Lively or PJ.

You're using too much logic.  I agree that's the team they are trying to build but I think Nico is trying to do that around Kyrie/AD/KD.  This is all about getting the ultimate team Nike here at this point (at least it feels that way to me).

I think everything you're saying makes total makes sense though for the record.  Extend PJ and Kyrie and resign Exum then try to go see what some combo of Gafford/Martin and picks (just the ones you need, not all of them) can get you to improve backcourt depth while trying to get off Hardy would be a much safer route.

[F Gump]

KD is still a great scorer and also contributes in defense even at his age but he's not worth giving up half of our rotation guys who are competent, hardworking and paid reasonably. the supporting cast we have now isn't that easy to assemble imho.

I agree that you don't strip down the team to bring in KD.

OTOH, while I'd be very comfortable if they said no to a KD deal because of the massive salary and what it does to the team as a whole, is there anyone in this list that you really can't live without, if this could get you KD?
Klay, Gafford, Martin, Marshall, Powell, OMax, Hardy, 2025 1st, other draft capital?

[LukaMVP]

davis (if he stays healthy), luka (when he isn't so fat) and Durant are basically the same level of players. luka is the most valuable of the three because of age. while Durant is still a great player, his value is rather limited due to his age imho. he's no LeBron. if he really desires to join us and could be get for a reasonable price (knowing he'd only have one year left on contract), however, it would be a good deal for us.

[LukaMVP]

I agree that you don't strip down the team to bring in KD.

OTOH, while I'd be very comfortable if they said no to a KD deal because of the massive salary and what it does to the team as a whole, is there anyone in this list that you really can't live without, if this could get you KD?
Klay, Gafford, Martin, Marshall, Powell, OMax, Hardy, 2025 1st, other draft capital?

i'd be excited if we could get KD for a reasonable price. our rotational guys are all tradable as long as we get equal value in return. Phoenix shouldn't demand too much for KD given his contract length and his age, but when Dallas has a GM as honest as Nico is, the mavs probably get robbed (again) in another big trade.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

davis (if he stays healthy), luka (when he isn't so fat) and Durant are basically the same level of players. luka is the most valuable of the three because of age. while Durant is still a great player, his value is rather limited due to his age imho. he's no LeBron. if he really desires to join us and could be get for a reasonable price (knowing he'd only have one year left on contract), however, it would be a good deal for us.

Curious about the bold part.  KD has had more injuries than Lebron for sure and that's a concern with anyone and more so with older players obviously but is there something that you've seen in KD that makes you think he can't play at this level for a couple more seasons?  Or contribute at the age of 40 like Lebron?

Again, not advocating for a trade here but I will say I would expect KD's game to age even more gracefully than Lebron's given that it's strongly predicated on simply getting to his spots and shooting over people.

[KillerLeft]

Again, not advocating for a trade here but I will say I would expect KD's game to age even more gracefully than Lebron's given that it's strongly predicated on simply getting to his spots and shooting over people.

His scoring game has aged gracefully, and will probably continue to do so. I don't think that right now, this second, he's still a physical enough player to build a championship team around, and I think that's part of why it didn't work in BRK or in PHX. (part). 

I am going to choose to continue to ignore this rumor, because I can't see it, personally. I think Harrison meant what he said about defense. Not saying I agree, just that I think he believes it, and bringing KD here wouldn't jive with that, imho. 

I think they are a PG and some health luck away from being a contender.

[LukaMVP]

KD is definitely more valuable than CP3 at the same age but I doubt Phoenix realistically expect to sell him without a discount, since he's two years older now. the lack of bidders and KD's personal desire may help quench the price to a reasonable level where we can afford hopefully.

[KillerLeft]

KD is definitely more valuable than CP3 at the same age but I doubt Phoenix realistically expect to sell him without a discount, since he's two years older now. the lack of bidders and KD's personal desire may help quench the price to a reasonable level where we can afford hopefully.

Yeah, I don't think he'll be very expensive, capital wise, but one of FGump's fine posts on this topic is all it takes to realize how much of a shakeup would be required just to make the money work. 

I'm out, personally. Not interested. If they do it, I'll cheer for him and hope it works, but from where we are right this second I can imagine a world in which I could get over the Luka trade soon, and a world where they end up with KD wouldn't be it.

[mvossman]

His scoring game has aged gracefully, and will probably continue to do so. I don't think that right now, this second, he's still a physical enough player to build a championship team around, and I think that's part of why it didn't work in BRK or in PHX. (part). 

I am going to choose to continue to ignore this rumor, because I can't see it, personally. I think Harrison meant what he said about defense. Not saying I agree, just that I think he believes it, and bringing KD here wouldn't jive with that, imho. 

I think they are a PG and some health luck away from being a contender.

He let DJJ walk in order to go after Klay.  The only consistent thing we have seen with Nico at the wheel (other than getting fleeced in trades) without Linsey influence is trading for his guys (Kyrie, Klay, AD).  We will see, but I am afraid this is more wishful thinking than a logical extension of Nico pattern.

If that PG is a quality 2 way starter with size, then it may be a contender.  Unfortunately there is a lot more noise around KD than anybody fitting that description.

[mvossman]

I agree that you don't strip down the team to bring in KD.

OTOH, while I'd be very comfortable if they said no to a KD deal because of the massive salary and what it does to the team as a whole, is there anyone in this list that you really can't live without, if this could get you KD?
Klay, Gafford, Martin, Marshall, Powell, OMax, Hardy, 2025 1st, other draft capital?

If that "other draft capital" ends up being unprotected 31 and/or a 32 pick swap, I would consider it something we can't live without.  It looks very likely this team will be deep in the lottery in that timeframe.

[The Jom]

Sorry to be late to the party here. But can someone remind me why we’re talking about KD? Is there any reason to think that this is something more than a pipe dream?

[mvossman]

Sorry to be late to the party here. But can someone remind me why we’re talking about KD? Is there any reason to think that this is something more than a pipe dream?

Rumors that Mavs have been trying/thinking to pull that trigger.  Knowledge that Kyrie wanted to team up with AD and KD for many years.  Knowledge that Nico has shown a strong propensity to bring in guys he has prior relationship with.

[SleepingHero]

Sorry to be late to the party here. But can someone remind me why we’re talking about KD? Is there any reason to think that this is something more than a pipe dream?

Kyrie made a curious remark out of the blue right after the Luka trade that he, AD, and KD all spoke about teaming up on the Celtics once upon a time but to "not read into that as foreshadowing."

Mavs apparently tried to make a play for KD this trade deadline as some rumors suggested, but couldn't get it done. 

KD was apparently very offended at being included in trade rumors this TDL and is almost certainly going to ask out at the end of the season. 

Plus a lot of interesting moments at the all-star game between Kyrie and KD. Again, nothing concrete. KD hasn't come out and said "Trade me to only the Mavericks" but there is a lot of smoke. And given that this team is on a very short window now, KD makes sense in that POV.

[SleepingHero]

KDot The Kemist
(@KDotTOD)
The Utah Jazz will shop Lauri Markkanen in the off-season sources tell @nbainsidergoat and myself

[audiosway]

He let DJJ walk in order to go after Klay.  The only consistent thing we have seen with Nico at the wheel (other than getting fleeced in trades) without Linsey influence is trading for his guys (Kyrie, Klay, AD).  We will see, but I am afraid this is more wishful thinking than a logical extension of Nico pattern.

If that PG is a quality 2 way starter with size, then it may be a contender.  Unfortunately there is a lot more noise around KD than anybody fitting that description.

Actually Nico signed Naji Marshall as the DJJ upgrade. Naji got slotted into the contract that would have gone to DJJ. They just didn't want to keep him at the price the Clippers paid is my understanding.

I think Naji is a better fit overall. He's a great defender but he's also a playmaker and shooter. DJJ was just a great defender. His shooting has been improving. But, he's not to the level of Naji.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Actually Nico signed Naji Marshall as the DJJ upgrade. Naji got slotted into the contract that would have gone to DJJ. They just didn't want to keep him at the price the Clippers paid is my understanding.

I think Naji is a better fit overall. He's a great defender but he's also a playmaker and shooter. DJJ was just a great defender. His shooting has been improving. But, he's not to the level of Naji.

Agree to disagree. DJJ is a much better on ball defender, and weak side help defender in my estimation. He also is a better lob threat.  He picked up his man full court and it hampered the team from getting into their offense quickly. Naji maybe a slightly better shooter, but I'd rather have DJJ. Just my thoughts..