Trade & FA 2024-25:

[SleepingHero]

Mavs Film Room (@MavsFilmRoom)
While all reporting suggests that Klay is on his way out of Golden State, I think we should be prepared for a scenario in which Steph Curry intervenes & both sides come to their senses.

I believe the Mavs are the favorites, but too much history in Golden State to feel certain.

[mvossman]

We happen to have a TPE of $16.2mm from the THJ trade.  

This is the scenario I brought up last night where you bring Thompson into this slot.  DJJ takes about $10.5mm and you keep Maxi.  You have your cushion, but you have to trade Green into space, a TPE or someone's NT MLE (or to LAC depending on everything else).  At that point you've traded THJ/Green for Thompson/Grimes.  You gave up some seconds and would presumably get seconds back (at least one of which would go to GSW for the S&T).

One last note.  How positive are we Grimes is here to stay.  One design no one has looked at yet is Grimes/Maxi as the outgoing.  DJJ (and a little OMax) is your backup behind PJ, Green/Thompson share the 3 and you've created more space for Hardy to get some minutes.  You can take Thompson into that same TPE from the Hardaway deal, but DJJ has to take about $11mm.  

I've got to go do some yard work, but I wonder if there is a version where Wiggins, Moody, Maxi and Grimes go to LAC and Thompson coming here for Maxi/Grimes.  You have flexibility in setting Thompson's number (or you sub in Exum instead of Grimes or BP instead of Moody.  I don't have time to work out the math, but it feels like there is a version in there somewhere depending on what Thompson is really willing to take (which we don't know for sure)

Given the rumors that they are shopping Green and tried to trade Green for Grimes earlier, I’m fairly sure it would be Green outgoing.

[SleepingHero]

We happen to have a TPE of $16.2mm from the THJ trade.  

This is the scenario I brought up last night where you bring Thompson into this slot.  DJJ takes about $10.5mm and you keep Maxi.  You have your cushion, but you have to trade Green into space, a TPE or someone's NT MLE (or to LAC depending on everything else).  At that point you've traded THJ/Green for Thompson/Grimes.  You gave up some seconds and would presumably get seconds back (at least one of which would go to GSW for the S&T).

One last note.  How positive are we Grimes is here to stay.  One design no one has looked at yet is Grimes/Maxi as the outgoing.  DJJ (and a little OMax) is your backup behind PJ, Green/Thompson share the 3 and you've created more space for Hardy to get some minutes.  You can take Thompson into that same TPE from the Hardaway deal, but DJJ has to take about $11mm.  

I've got to go do some yard work, but I wonder if there is a version where Wiggins, Moody, Maxi and Grimes go to LAC and Thompson coming here for Maxi/Grimes.  You have flexibility in setting Thompson's number (or you sub in Exum instead of Grimes or BP instead of Moody.  I don't have time to work out the math, but it feels like there is a version in there somewhere depending on what Thompson is really willing to take (which we don't know for sure)

Pretty certain that Grimes isn't being traded. Mavs had interest in February when he was on NYK. They still went after him this summer. Green is the one being mentioned in rumors too.

But that 16.2 TPE is a very interesting number. I just can't see Klay accepting a deal that cheap.

[SleepingHero]

Personally I think it’s the wrong idea as well. There was plenty of talk earlier this thread about shoot only players like Timmy are no longer valuable if they don’t do anything else (defense/creation). That is basically what Klay is now. A glorified Timmy.  He is better right now, but older and declining. How long before he is Timmy?

Calling Klay a glorified THJ is akin to calling KCP a glorified version of Josh Green. Completely ignores all context and talent level of the respective players.

Klay isn't just "better" than THJ right now. He's a completely different tier of player. THJ has never put together any season in his career that comes close to Klay's most recent season. 

Should Klay decline, he'll probably become a much more efficient THJ. And isn't that what we've been begging for from THJ since he's arrived? So the worst case scenario is a better version of a guy we've wanted?

[Smitty]

Calling Klay a glorified THJ is akin to calling KCP a glorified version of Josh Green. Completely ignores all context and talent level of the respective players.

Klay isn't just "better" than THJ right now. He's a completely different tier of player. THJ has never put together any season in his career that comes close to Klay's most recent season. 

Should Klay decline, he'll probably become a much more efficient THJ. And isn't that what we've been begging for from THJ since he's arrived? So the worst case scenario is a better version of a guy we've wanted?

Simply put. Tim is a shot taker. Klay is a shot maker.

[Winter]

Should Klay decline, he'll probably become a much more efficient THJ. And isn't that what we've been begging for from THJ since he's arrived? So the worst case scenario is a better version of a guy we've wanted?

I could not agree more with this. Timmy's decision-making was somewhere between average and terrible. In the half-court, he could only be relied upon to sit in the corner. On defense, he barely waved his arms. On offense, he couldn't muscle anyone into the paint. I'm betting he was probably told not to dribble at all.

Timmy's best feature was shooting a pull-up three before the defense was set or getting a corner three. Occasionally he was very good at those things. But he absolutely HAD TO BE very good at those things or he wasn't worth playing. Klay knows what to do even if his shot is not falling. It's true, we're not certain what kind of Klay we're getting, but a comparison to Tim Hardaway jr. is a real slap in the face.

[dirkfansince1998]

Timmy comparisation isn't that far off if we are talking about the best version of THJ.

THJs best season: 17/3/2 45/39/82 58.9% TS
Klay last season: 18/3/2 43/39/93 57.6% TS

[Smitty]

If Green and Maxi are part of this SnT deal for Klay it does balance the roster with role and salary structure

Luka 43M | Exum 3M
Irving 41M | Grimes 4M | Hardy 2M
Klay ~22M | DJJ 12M
PJW 15M | Omax 3M
Gaff 13M | Lively 5M | Powell 4M

2 vet minimums (PatBev and Morris?)

[dirkfansince1998]

If Green and Maxi are part of this SnT deal for Klay it does balance the roster with role and salary structure

Luka 43M | Exum 3M
Irving 41M | Grimes 4M | Hardy 2M
Klay ~22M  | DJJ 12M
PJW 15M | Omax 3M
Gaff 13M | Lively 5M | Powell 4M

2 vet minimums (PatBev and Morris?)

Would argue that it accomplishes the opposite. 100m in salary invested in perimeter players that cannot defend the POA. All three of them asking for a starting role and 30+ minutes.
Also creates a hole in the front court. Mavs lose their backup PF and 5-out big. Not sure if you can find a Kleber replacement for the vet min.

[jon.neal52]

If the goal with Klay is to add shooting then why not just go after Buddy Hield? Younger, defends better and would shoot the lights out with Luka and Kyrie drawing all of the attention.

[SleepingHero]

Timmy comparisation isn't that far off if we are talking about the best version of THJ.

THJs best season: 17/3/2 45/39/82 58.9% TS
Klay last season: 18/3/2 43/39/93 57.6% TS

Right so Tim's best case scenario is a below average season from Klay.


I put stock in Klay benefitting from being around a better team and being served wide open looks the entire game from Luka.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

If the goal with Klay is to add shooting then why not just go after Buddy Hield? Younger, defends better and would shoot the lights out with Luka and Kyrie drawing all of the attention.

Hield is a horrible defender. Even if Klay has lost a step, he's still better than Hield.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Pretty certain that Grimes isn't being traded. Mavs had interest in February when he was on NYK. They still went after him this summer. Green is the one being mentioned in rumors too.

But that 16.2 TPE is a very interesting number. I just can't see Klay accepting a deal that cheap.

I'm not saying Grimes outgoing is the most likely outcome.  However:

1. Grimes's greatest attribute is he is $12mm cheaper than THJ.  That is the most important thing about him.  He's the path to DJJ

2.  Grimes outgoing sticks with Nico's "top 7-8 comment"

3.  It makes joining in with LAC and GSW easier if this ends up being a 3 way.

Just saying it is worth considering as you construct Paul George deals.

[Tyler]

The Mavs fans experience:
- Talk at length about the clear need for shooting.
- One of the best shooters of all time is available and interested in Dallas.
- Nitpick his faults and hope he goes somewhere else.

[Smitty]

Would argue that it accomplishes the opposite. 100m in salary invested in perimeter players that cannot defend the POA. All three of them asking for a starting role and 30+ minutes.
Also creates a hole in the front court. Mavs lose their backup PF and 5-out big. Not sure if you can find a Kleber replacement for the vet min.

No roster is perfect but DJJ and Grimes are great PoA defenders. There’s no perfect player available. Your point about Kleber is valid. Some are higher than others on Omax and one could argue that Lively shooting 2 threes a game is just as good as Maxi. But I think we both agree that Maxi at the 4 is not ideal and that’s his role here. I agree though, he’s important and would be a hole that must be filled by others.

What other player rumored available that Green+Maxi can return would you rather have?

Jerami Grant
Cam Johnson
Deandre Hunter
Bruce Brown
Andrew Wiggins
Kyle Kuzma
Tobias Harris
Pat Williams
KCP

Some will cost picks, others probably not. I don’t see a single player that fits PoA defender, elite shooter, 36 mpg playoff starter.

[DallasMaverick]

The Mavs fans experience:
- Talk at length about the clear need for shooting.
- One of the best shooters of all time is available and interested in Dallas.
- Nitpick his faults and hope he goes somewhere else.

Dirk’s available. Also one of the best shooters of all time.

[omahen]

No roster is perfect but DJJ and Grimes are great PoA defenders. There’s no perfect player available. Your point about Kleber is valid. Some are higher than others on Omax and one could argue that Lively shooting 2 threes a game is just as good as Maxi. But I think we both agree that Maxi at the 4 is not ideal and that’s his role here. I agree though, he’s important and would be a hole that must be filled by others.

What other player rumored available that Green+Maxi can return would you rather have?

Jerami Grant
Cam Johnson
Deandre Hunter
Bruce Brown
Andrew Wiggins
Kyle Kuzma
Tobias Harris
Pat Williams
KCP

Some will cost picks, others probably not. I don’t see a single player that fits PoA defender, elite shooter, 36 mpg playoff starter.

All true. Just please put KCP of the list, he is not an option. If he would be, Mavs would go after him.

[dirkfansince1998]

Right so Tim's best case scenario is a below average season from Klay.


I put stock in Klay benefitting from being around a better team and being served wide open looks the entire game from Luka.

Point is that people weren't happy with THJ. Even in his best season. And the below average season from Klay isn't a random occurrence in his prime. He is in his mid 30s and hasn't been the same after his injuries. Is on a downwards trajectory. All-NBA level defense is a thing of the past and even his shooting percentages are trending in the wrong direction.
We can talk ourselves into all kinds of scenarios where he has a throwback season with the Mavs. But we should also consider that the Mavs have made the same mistake in the past. Invested assets/capspace and ended up with the corpse of a former great.

[SleepingHero]

Chris Haynes (@ChrisBHaynes)
With LeBron James opting out to re-sign with the Los Angeles Lakers, the superstar is considering opening up a pathway for the team to obtain the full midlevel exception for the right targets, league sources tell @NBAonTNT, @BleacherReport.

[BigDirk41]

Chris Haynes (@ChrisBHaynes)
With LeBron James opting out to re-sign with the Los Angeles Lakers, the superstar is considering opening up a pathway for the team to obtain the full midlevel exception for the right targets, league sources tell @NBAonTNT, @BleacherReport.

For his son? Just kidding. LeGM wouldn't do that.