Trade & FA 2024-25:

[dirkfansince1998]

The % is great but it wasn’t on a ton of attempts. That being said Smith was drafted this early due to his ability to shoot the three in college. It took him multiple seasons to adjust to the three point line but he’s a legit NBA stretch big now. He’d fit like a glove here and we could move on from Kleber.

Adding a rotation caliber big who can shoot it is a HUGE hole on the roster Imo. Would once again be a player who’d help right away but still has plenty of room to improve given that he’s still so young.

Question is how to get it done? Would RC prefer to have Kleber instead? Is a sign&trade an option?

[Deebo]

The % is great but it wasn’t on a ton of attempts. That being said Smith was drafted this early due to his ability to shoot the three in college. It took him multiple seasons to adjust to the three point line but he’s a legit NBA stretch big now. He’d fit like a glove here and we could move on from Kleber.

Adding a rotation caliber big who can shoot it is a HUGE hole on the roster Imo. Smith would once again be a player who’d help right away but still has plenty of room to improve given that he’s still so young. I really hope we’re in the mix for him.

We need a pf /power player - id almost rather have him than jones jr.  Also bring Spencer back for minimum to be backup pg

[KillerLeft]

In the excitement of the moment earlier, I forgot that the Grimes path lessened the chance of making the Grant thing work without losing DJJ. I could make a pretty compelling argument for prioritizing Grant in that situation, but I don't think that's what Dallas will do. So, now that Grimes/DET were chosen, I'm looking ahead to a post-Grant world of wondering (even if I haven't completely given up hope).

The holes now (there aren't many) in my mind, are as follows:

1) a backup forward, probably more 4 than 3, who can play behind PJ and hopefully some 3 in a bigger lineup. I think it's folly to expect Kleber to suddenly be good at the 4, despite what we think would work based solely on size.

2) while I'm still on the more optimistic side with Kleber (as a stretch big, not a forward), it's fair to wonder whether now is a good time to get younger here. They've gotten younger everywhere else, and he is injured so often it's getting harder to hope he'll be healthy when needed. But, a stretch big who can defend is a hard, hard thing to find.

3) Those who don't believe in Hardy and/or Exum are probably freaking out about adding another ball-handler who can score. Grimes is not that.

It seems to me that giving DJJ the MLE, or a big chunk of it (I'm calling $8-11 million) and then finding someone who's basically a match for Green's contract that can fill either need #1 or #3 (but from my POV, probably #1) is the move here. If need #2 is your aim, maybe you include Kleber's contract into the thinking, somehow.

So, who fits this criteria?
DFS?
Cam Johnson?

Those are the first two names that came to mind for me. Anyone else?

[SleepingHero]

@MavsFilmRoom
Klay Thompson follows Nico, Luka, and Kyrie on instagram.

But the cherry on top is that he also follows Maxi and Gafford. He is already in the trenches with us.

[SleepingHero]

If the deal is maxi + green + filler, doesn't that still leave us room to get DJJ?

Maxi+Green is about 25 mil. We'd need to include Powell to match Grants 29.7mil.

The roster count is now 12, so we have to factor in an additional 4.2 mil for vet mins. Which means the most we could offer DJJ is a little under 8 mil. Not sure he goes for that at all.

[KillerLeft]

Maxi+Green is about 25 mil. We'd need to include Powell to match Grants 29.7mil.

The roster count is now 12, so we have to factor in an additional 4.2 mil for vet mins. Which means the most we could offer DJJ is a little under 8 mil. Not sure he goes for that at all.

Yeah...I always forget about the marginal, roster-filling cap holds and filler costs. Sadly, the only realistic path to Grant now probably doesn't include DJJ.

[SleepingHero]

In the excitement of the moment earlier, I forgot that the Grimes path lessened the chance of making the Grant thing work without losing DJJ. I could make a pretty compelling argument for prioritizing Grant in that situation, but I don't think that's what Dallas will do. So, now that Grimes/DET were chosen, I'm looking ahead to a post-Grant world of wondering (even if I haven't completely given up hope).

The holes now (there aren't many) in my mind, are as follows:

1) a backup forward, probably more 4 than 3, who can play behind PJ and hopefully some 3 in a bigger lineup. I think it's folly to expect Kleber to suddenly be good at the 4, despite what we think would work based solely on size.

2) while I'm still on the more optimistic side with Kleber (as a stretch big, not a forward), it's fair to wonder whether now is a good time to get younger here. They've gotten younger everywhere else, and he is injured so often it's getting harder to hope he'll be healthy when needed. But, a stretch big who can defend is a hard, hard thing to find.

3) Those who don't believe in Hardy and/or Exum are probably freaking out about adding another ball-handler who can score. Grimes is not that.

It seems to me that giving DJJ the MLE, or a big chunk of it (I'm calling $8-11 million) and then finding someone who's basically a match for Green's contract that can fill either need #1 or #3 (but from my POV, probably #1) is the move here. If need #2 is your aim, maybe you include Kleber's contract into the thinking, somehow.

So, who fits this criteria?
DFS?
Cam Johnson?

Those are the first two names that came to mind for me. Anyone else?

1) can't OMAX be that guy? 

3) A ball handler that is a vet and might get lost in the shuffle is Patty Mills. Great "break in case of emergency" guy. 

If we're trying to keep with the youth movement, how about a DSJ homecoming with the BAE?

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

@MavsFilmRoom
Klay Thompson follows Nico, Luka, and Kyrie on instagram.

But the cherry on top is that he also follows Maxi and Gafford. He is already in the trenches with us.

 
Is this real? I don’t have any instagram twitter thingies

[Scott41theMavs]

I don't want Klay here for anything bigger than the BAE at most.

[KillerLeft]

1) can't OMAX be that guy? 

He absolutely CAN be, and I think he WILL be, too, but the team is good NOW. I just think the team is currently so close and so complete that I don't know where else it makes sense to try and improve. I think there's real need for offense from one of the forward positions, only it really can't come from the 3, because they need that guy to be a premium defender. Minutes from Grimes and hopefully better shooting from DJJ will help quite a bit. 

So, the offensive creation threat needed from the forwards kind of needs to happen from the 4. The Mavs are way ahead of us on this, because we know they publicly admitted interest in Kuzma (so brave of them) and have been kicking the tires on Grant lately. I don't think O-Max is close to emerging as THAT type, do you? 

So, if you're not doing that Jerami Grant big swing, you're back to hoping for improvement on offense from PJ. I'm here for it, and confident. Then, I think you add a solid 3&D type behind him (bigger version of Grimes, who'll spend his time at the 3 and 2) and go to war. This path benefits O-Max, I think, because a DFS type won't be such a huge asset that he blocks any chance of O-Max ever working here the way Grant would. Think of this guy more as someone with whom O-Max will compete for a role. New guy gets the role, but everyone hopes O-Max catches up and surpasses him before new guy's next contract or the end of O-Max's rookie deal, whichever comes first. 

I like this plan, personally. 

Alternatively, I wouldn't be shocked to see Hardy AND Green packaged for some type of splashy ball-handler/initiator. Bogdan Bogdanoic, maybe. Someone like that. Those young guys are attractive enough that could probably get someone pretty exciting without any additional assets.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Green and Kleber = 23.6mil for Cameron Johnson's 23.6mil.

Something to bear in mind.  It isn't that we can't send out less than we take back.  Its that if we do we are capped out at a certain number.  If we (as we presume and your trade presumes) give DJJ more than $5.2mm, we are hard-capped anyway.  So, $23.6mm isn't the limitation.  $178.6mm in total salary is the limitation.

So, what you can take back for Green/Maxi is more a product of:  

1. What does DJJ actually get (I think part of why we haven't heard an announcement is that number is flexible right now depending on what happens elsewhere).  

2.  Do we keep 15 or 14 players.

For the most part, it is a difference without a distinction because you can't go too far above your $23.6mm number and if you do, it means you've convinced DJJ to both come off the bench and take under the full $12.8 they could use with the MLE

Other than Cam Johnson, I think Kuzma is in this range as well as maybe Dejounte Murray and Draymond.  I'll mention Simons, but I don't see him being available.  As you get to Wiggins money you are probably tapped out.  Once you go past that, you are adding another body to the outgoing and needing to replace them with a minimum (or, you are forgoing keeping DJJ).  So, Grant is doable, but Grant and DJJ seems unrealistic without knowing that DJJ takes a dramatically smaller number than most assume (or I assume to be more specific).  Part of the reason the FA's are being mentioned so much is you can design your offer to KCP or Thompson around the room you have left.

[JamesConway912]

Question is how to get it done? Would RC prefer to have Kleber instead? Is a sign&trade an option?

I‘m out on the CBA stuff. I guess some sort of SnT is doable im theory but for instance I don’t know if our guys necessarily have to go to IND directly or if it’s possible to move them to a third team. I’d guess everything starts / ends with Kleber / Green as both would be expendable with Smith/Grimes on board.

_____

I’d really love to know their stance on the big picture. Is Jones really such a priority? Even over guys like Grant / KCP / Klay who are pretty credibly rumored to be targets?

[Scott41theMavs]

I just think the team is currently so close and so complete that I don't know where else it makes sense to try and improve. 

See, so many after the Finals think the Mavs are far away on offense - need at least one more player who can score on a very high level - and, as you have said, not damage the defense in the process. 

Yes, I agree that playmaking from the forward position would be a big plus, but to me the ideal guy off the bench is someone with Jamal Crawford's vintage scoring ability and Marcus Smart's vintage defensive ability (in other words, the Celtics' White, who is strangely unavailable). Not sure how the Mavs acquire such a player. But remember how you and I had that back and forth about the Mavs becoming a true contender and I said, "What more do they need to do to qualify?" The Finals answered my own question - "Quite a bit." The Mavs may have to rely on OMax for whatever while using their external improvement possibilities on other areas.

[KillerLeft]

Something to bear in mind.  It isn't that we can't send out less than we take back.  Its that if we do we are capped out at a certain number.  If we (as we presume and your trade presumes) give DJJ more than $5.2mm, we are hard-capped anyway.  So, $23.6mm isn't the limitation.  $178.6mm in total salary is the limitation.

So, what you can take back for Green/Maxi is more a product of:  

1. What does DJJ actually get (I think part of why we haven't heard an announcement is that number is flexible right now depending on what happens elsewhere).  

2.  Do we keep 15 or 14 players.

For the most part, it is a difference without a distinction because you can't go too far above your $23.6mm number and if you do, it means you've convinced DJJ to both come off the bench and take under the full $12.8 they could use with the MLE

Other than Cam Johnson, I think Kuzma is in this range as well as maybe Dejounte Murray and Draymond.  I'll mention Simons, but I don't see him being available.  As you get to Wiggins money you are probably tapped out.  Once you go past that, you are adding another body to the outgoing and needing to replace them with a minimum (or, you are forgoing keeping DJJ).  So, Grant is doable, but Grant and DJJ seems unrealistic without knowing that DJJ takes a dramatically smaller number than most assume (or I assume to be more specific).  Part of the reason the FA's are being mentioned so much is you can design your offer to KCP or Thompson around the room you have left.

So helpful. Thanks for all the value you add!

[SleepingHero]

 
Is this real? I don’t have any instagram twitter thingies

It is real. And he also follows Dirk.

he also stopped following the warriors team account and deleted everything warriors related from his page last week...

[BigDirk41]

I don't see Omax being a rotation player next year. I hope he turns into everything people think he can, but he's a project. A guy that raw isn't going to be a rotation piece on the defending Western Conference champs. It's just unrealistic. I know it's fun to root for the guy, but we also need to be realistic.
.

[Scott41theMavs]

Part of the reason the FA's are being mentioned so much is you can design your offer to KCP or Thompson around the room you have left.

In what sense do you mean this? Are you presuming DJJ not signing? Are you presuming a sign and trade? Just how little money do you think those two are willing to take from the Mavs?

[Scott41theMavs]

I don't see Omax being a rotation player next year. I hope he turns into everything people think he can, but he's a project. A guy that raw isn't going to be a rotation piece on the defending Western Conference champs. It's just unrealistic.  I know it's fun to root for the guy, but we also need to be realistic.
.

Thank goodness Kidd wasn't "realistic" about Lively. Had he been a little less realistic about OMax, the latter might be quite a bit farther a long now - unless one believes that all of his growth and advancement last year was due to the G league.

[KillerLeft]

See, so many after the Finals think the Mavs are far away on offense - need at least one more player who can score on a very high level - and, as you have said, not damage the defense in the process. 

Yes, I agree that playmaking from the forward position would be a big plus, but to me the ideal guy off the bench is someone with Jamal Crawford's vintage scoring ability and Marcus Smart's vintage defensive ability (in other words, the Celtics' White, who is strangely unavailable). Not sure how the Mavs acquire such a player. But remember how you and I had that back and forth about the Mavs becoming a true contender and I said, "What more do they need to do to qualify?" The Finals answered my own question - "Quite a bit." The Mavs may have to rely on OMax for whatever while using their external improvement possibilities on other areas.

They WERE far away on offense, but another heliocentric scoring guard wouldn't fix it. Good insurance against an injury, and a good thing to have to lessen the regular season work load for Luka and Kyrie, but not a solution to THAT problem. 

The solution is a guy in the top 6 of the rotation who plays big minutes, including a ton of minutes WITH Luka AND Kyrie. Last 5 minutes of the game type of minutes, so he needs to be from a different position, and needs to be competent enough on defense to be trusted in high leverage moments. Basically, the immediate solution to that problem would need to be one of the team's five best players.

Lively is going to be the center. 

The 3 MUST be a POA defender. Non-negotiable. Last season taught us that, though some are trying to forget. The Mavs are about to re-sign Jones AND have now added Grimes. They've DOUBLED DOWN on what they think works from that position. 

That leaves the 4. That's why they are into Grant. That's why I'M into grant. He would make them so much more complete as a team, and is a two-way guy who can play 30+ per in a playoff series. These guys don't grow on trees. Having said that, the Grimes path was chosen (I'm not mad, I'm thrilled) so Grant's contract makes him a long shot. 

So, I think unless you're a Kyle Kuzma fan, we're back to hoping for enough quick improvement from PJ Washington to fix that, specific problem the finals exposed. I just don't see any other getable difference makers out there who fit. Grant was it.

[F Gump]

Keith Smith twitted Mavs are 16 mil (and change) under the first apron, so I used that number.

Edit: Spotrac and MavsCBA have us 14,8 mil under the first Apron. Since the new FA would be replacing an empty roster spot, I guess this puts us at over 16 mil. Am I correct in my thinking?

Than Green (shipped into someones MLE or cap space) is just replaced by DJJ, basically allowing us to sign DJJ to max Green salary. Of course if he takes less, Mavs could offer even more money to a FA in such a case.

I have my computer now, for better math-ing.

KS's number is wrong, for our purposes. Not sure what he included, but someone else (Marks, maybe?) said 14.9, and that number is right - but it doesn't include any cushion for having to stay under the Apron. (There's no chance whatsoever that a team would not leave a cushion - the Apron is unforgiving, there are no exceptions given.)

So I set aside exactly 1M for a cushion, and work from there.

That leaves 13.9 for DJJ, which leaves 1M left over to combine with an outgoing player (in the right trade setup). BOTTOM LINE - If you send out Green, you could acquire a player making up to 13.65M-ish.