Trade & FA 2024-25:

[DanSchwartzgan]

You’re right. Green for Grimes straight up it is!

You are not a nice man.  

[KillerLeft]

Honestly, what are we doing anymore in the NBA media? Did Stein really report this? This has a 0% chance of happening, right?

https://x.com/Mavs_FFL/status/1806530928426025424

I feel like we're living out the early stages of idiocracy.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Honestly, what are we doing anymore in the NBA media? Did Stein really report this? This has a 0% chance of happening, right?

https://x.com/Mavs_FFL/status/1806530928426025424

I feel like we're living out the early stages of idiocracy.

Below is what he wrote.  The good news is Dallas may be willing to combine players outgoing for something like this.  It doesn't have to be KCP.  There are other S&T candidates and other contracts in this price range.


 
League sources say that there would be mutual interest in free agency between Caldwell-Pope and the Dallas Mavericks … but Dallas could only get into Caldwell-Pope's projected salary range via sign-and-trade. It is believed that the Nuggets do not want to participate in a sign-and-trade with an in-conference rival — Dallas just supplanted Denver as the NBA's reigning Western Conference champion — even if that means losing Caldwell-Pope without compensation.

[KillerLeft]

Below is what he wrote.  The good news is Dallas may be willing to combine players outgoing for something like this.  It doesn't have to be KCP.  There are other S&T candidates and other contracts in this price range.

League sources say that there would be mutual interest in free agency between Caldwell-Pope and the Dallas Mavericks … but Dallas could only get into Caldwell-Pope's projected salary range via sign-and-trade. It is believed that the Nuggets do not want to participate in a sign-and-trade with an in-conference rival — Dallas just supplanted Denver as the NBA's reigning Western Conference champion — even if that means losing Caldwell-Pope without compensation.

I suppose that could be a sliver lining to find here, yes, as is the news (if accurate) that guys like KCP are looking at Dallas and wanting to play here at the moment. 

I'm normally pessimistic about the big stuff this time of year, but idk...I have a feeling that there's a momentum for the Mavs at the moment that might be extremely helpful. 

But, obviously Denver isn't going to sign and trade KCP here. I guess my beef is with the aggregators, though.

[SleepingHero]

Mavs interested in KCP per Stein

[Smitty]

Yeah, I must've conveyed my tone poorly, because I didn't mean to pick a fight or something. I'm a little surprised at your reaction here. At no point during this conversation was I upset or arguing "at" you. I just love talking about this stuff and was surprised by your reasoning earlier. I enjoyed this conversation, lol. You offered some valuable insight, imo. 

Anyway, thanks for the kind words, and right back atcha!

No tone, no argument on this. I was just making sure we were good on the previous stuff the last few weeks. 

Let me ask you this. Do you think Hardy is more like Kyrie or more like Tim Hardaway? Do you think Green will reach his full potential here or would he unlock it on an inferior team where he could initiate more, slash more, and not just stand in the corner? Do you think DJJ’s year with the Mavs warrants a raise of 3M to 13M and is he a starter level, 32+ mpg, player here? (He played 22 mpg in the finals and I think that’s the correct role for him).

[KillerLeft]

Let me ask you this. Do you think Hardy is more like Kyrie or more like Tim Hardaway? Do you think Green will reach his full potential here or would he unlock it on an inferior team where he could initiate more, slash more, and not just stand in the corner? Do you think DJJ’s year with the Mavs warrants a raise of 3M to 13M and is he a starter level, 32+ mpg, player here? (He played 22 mpg in the finals and I think that’s the correct role for him).

I think Hardy is somewhere in between those guys right now. I don't think he's as good in the Ray Allen/JJ Redick way as Hardaway (when THJ is playing well) and I think that path would be sort of a waste for Hardy. I think if you give him the ball, as the Mavs are doing to much outcry in this community, his ceiling is probably not quite at Kyrie level, but his floor is around Jordan Clarkson level, which in my mind is a fine player to have, especially if home grown.

I am not sure Green will ever reach what we all believe is his full potential anywhere. That's what's so frustrating. I don't think he should initiate more, really. I'd love for him to cut/slash more, and I think he has a path for that here and has done so at a high level at times. I think the two main things with him are defense (his has been disappointing, despite what appears to be plenty of effort, and that's difficult for me to reconcile) and just general consistency in every aspect of his game. To be a touch indelicate, I'm starting to wonder if he's smart enough to do this. He just never seems to grab a role and hold it, no matter how desperately the Mavs need him to do so. Where I come from we call those missed opportunities, and those are starting to mount up for him. He's young, yes, and he's likely to get at least one more chance here or on another team, but man...it's not fun anymore, now that he's getting paid. The contract seemed like a bargain when he signed it because he was coming off of his annual push to the end a season and it looked like he was figuring it all out and sure to have a role the following year. But, he's had like three of those flashes, and in the end, he lost his job to a vet min player who was signed like a week before training camp and at times, Green wasn't even in the extended rotation. Who knows, maybe seeing what DJJ did last year on defense will help Green understand what's needed. If he could challenge for that spot, the offense would improve for sure. 

I think with DJJ, you can't look at it without context. In a certain light he's a journeyman minimum guy whose offensive limitations have held him back in the eyes of the NBA, and I can't fault them for it. It's an offensively driven league. From a different angle, he made it possible for Luka and Kyrie, both defensively challenged to a certain extent, even if we think the criticism of them is excessively harsh, to make it all the way to the NBA finals. The truth is probably somewhere in between, but we didn't realize how great Tyson Chandler was until we saw how perfectly his strengths and weaknesses complemented Dirk, right? I, for one, didn't realize Jones could/would have the impact he did, and came away from it with a healthy respect for both his game and its synergy within the context of this current team. He's a GREAT fit with Luka. Herb Jones, Jaden McDaniels, Dort, Jalen Brown...those guys would be, too, but they can't get those guys, and I really do believe that DJJ's defense was impressive enough to warrant All NBA defensive team consideration if he has a repeat season, now that he's finally playing big minutes. I also have a long history of arguing with the masses around here that "development" doesn't just end when you turn 25 years old. Jones is only 26-27, and this truly is the first meaningful stretch of his NBA career where he has been given a chance to play a role like this, where his size is appropriate and he's not out there overmatched as a big, basically. I think it's possible, likely even, that he's still learning and growing. Improvement seems expectable to me. They don't need him to become Brandan Ingram, they just need him to become a dangerous shooter. If Jason Kidd can do it, so can Jones. 

The last thing about Jones I'd say is this: speaking of Tyson Chandler, I believe the entire league took notice when he was not given a contract here after basically being the missing piece for that championship run. Like the 2011 Mavs, there are arguments to be made for several players being the key to this past season's success - that's the sign of a good team, I suppose. But, it's undeniable that Jones is in that conversation, despite becoming a fixture in the lineup only late in the season. We know it. The locker room knows it. The coaches know it. The league knows it. What does it say about Dallas if they don't show that they value a guy who signed here for the minimum (had other offers), was yanked in and out of the lineup and rotation all year without bitching and then stepped up when needed to do LITERALLY only the dirty work nobody else could do? I don't think that's the way the Mavs want to go, personally. I could understand it if some team was going to back a truck full of cash to his front door, but I seriously doubt he's even going to get the full MLE. For that amount of money, I feel he deserves a chance to prove this wasn't a fluke.

[The Jom]

What happened to Hardaway’s shot, by the way? He was a very good shooter. Borderline excellent, if streaky. Then he all the sudden went the way of the Latvian Laser, trading dead-eye accuracy for the quickest release in the league. Both of them became unplayable shortly thereafter.

So who is telling them to hurry their release? It absolutely ruined their game. Hope nobody’s telling other Mavs to follow suit.

[KillerLeft]

What happened to Hardaway’s shot, by the way? He was a very good shooter. Borderline excellent, if streaky. Then he all the sudden went the way of the Latvian Laser, trading dead-eye accuracy for the quickest release in the league. Both of them became unplayable shortly thereafter.

So who is telling them to hurry their release? It absolutely ruined their game. Hope nobody’s telling other Mavs to follow suit.

That, my friend, is the million dollar question, and if the Mavs could've figured out the answer, they might be champions right now. 

They literally lost the finals because they didn't have an off-ball player who could hit a three from the wings or from above the break. Boston took away the roller and both corners, and their defenders were good enough to make life hard for Luka and Kyrie without doubling. 

People will roll their eyes, but the Hardaway they had from October until around the beginning of February might've made a huge, gargantuan difference in that series.

[Jym]

Gotta think Grimes for Hardway +2nd rounders is not an option now after seeing recent salary dumps
pivoting to taking salary like a Hunter or Wiggins might just make more sense. And we might even get an asset or 2 out of it

[Smitty]

I think Hardy is somewhere in between those guys right now. I don't think he's as good in the Ray Allen/JJ Redick way as Hardaway (when THJ is playing well) and I think that path would be sort of a waste for Hardy. I think if you give him the ball, as the Mavs are doing to much outcry in this community, his ceiling is probably not quite at Kyrie level, but his floor is around Jordan Clarkson level, which in my mind is a fine player to have, especially if home grown.

I am not sure Green will ever reach what we all believe is his full potential anywhere. That's what's so frustrating. I don't think he should initiate more, really. I'd love for him to cut/slash more, and I think he has a path for that here and has done so at a high level at times. I think the two main things with him are defense (his has been disappointing, despite what appears to be plenty of effort, and that's difficult for me to reconcile) and just general consistency in every aspect of his game. To be a touch indelicate, I'm starting to wonder if he's smart enough to do this. He just never seems to grab a role and hold it, no matter how desperately the Mavs need him to do so. Where I come from we call those missed opportunities, and those are starting to mount up for him. He's young, yes, and he's likely to get at least one more chance here or on another team, but man...it's not fun anymore, now that he's getting paid. The contract seemed like a bargain when he signed it because he was coming off of his annual push to the end a season and it looked like he was figuring it all out and sure to have a role the following year. But, he's had like three of those flashes, and in the end, he lost his job to a vet min player who was signed like a week before training camp and at times, Green wasn't even in the extended rotation. Who knows, maybe seeing what DJJ did last year on defense will help Green understand what's needed. If he could challenge for that spot, the offense would improve for sure. 

I think with DJJ, you can't look at it without context. In a certain light he's a journeyman minimum guy whose offensive limitations have held him back in the eyes of the NBA, and I can't fault them for it. It's an offensively driven league. From a different angle, he made it possible for Luka and Kyrie, both defensively challenged to a certain extent, even if we think the criticism of them is excessively harsh, to make it all the way to the NBA finals. The truth is probably somewhere in between, but we didn't realize how great Tyson Chandler was until we saw how perfectly his strengths and weaknesses complemented Dirk, right? I, for one, didn't realize Jones could/would have the impact he did, and came away from it with a healthy respect for both his game and its synergy within the context of this current team. He's a GREAT fit with Luka. Herb Jones, Jaden McDaniels, Dort, Jalen Brown...those guys would be, too, but they can't get those guys, and I really do believe that DJJ's defense was impressive enough to warrant All NBA defensive team consideration if he has a repeat season, now that he's finally playing big minutes. I also have a long history of arguing with the masses around here that "development" doesn't just end when you turn 25 years old. Jones is only 26-27, and this truly is the first meaningful stretch of his NBA career where he has been given a chance to play a role like this, where his size is appropriate and he's not out there overmatched as a big, basically. I think it's possible, likely even, that he's still learning and growing. Improvement seems expectable to me. They don't need him to become Brandan Ingram, they just need him to become a dangerous shooter. If Jason Kidd can do it, so can Jones. 

The last thing about Jones I'd say is this: speaking of Tyson Chandler, I believe the entire league took notice when he was not given a contract here after basically being the missing piece for that championship run. Like the 2011 Mavs, there are arguments to be made for several players being the key to this past season's success - that's the sign of a good team, I suppose. But, it's undeniable that Jones is in that conversation, despite becoming a fixture in the lineup only late in the season. We know it. The locker room knows it. The coaches know it. The league knows it. What does it say about Dallas if they don't show that they value a guy who signed here for the minimum (had other offers), was yanked in and out of the lineup and rotation all year without bitching and then stepped up when needed to do LITERALLY only the dirty work nobody else could do? I don't think that's the way the Mavs want to go, personally. I could understand it if some team was going to back a truck full of cash to his front door, but I seriously doubt he's even going to get the full MLE. For that amount of money, I feel he deserves a chance to prove this wasn't a fluke.

It’s difficult to nitpick any of that really. I think we just disagree on Hardy’s ceiling.

If I had to point out anything I think pointing out DJJ being young at 27 and still not done growing but not acknowledging the same for 23 year old Green just goes to show that we emphasize what we want to to make our opinions stand out for the players we like the most.

I’m obviously a fan of DJJ I just see his flaws and think he’s actually become overrated here. I’d love him at the TPMLE as the backup SF. I think we’d have buyers remorse if we sign him to $55M and expect him to be the answer at 36 mpg in the Finals is all.

Back to Green, I’ve been one of his biggest supporters for a while and I’m starting to see the writing on the wall… what he does and is ultimately capable of just isn’t a fit with LuKai. If he was a natural CnS player and elite PoA defender, then sure, but he’ll never shoot 5+ threes a game and is an undersized forward. Grimes on the other hand… go watch his stroke and tell me he’s not what we think Tim is (at his best). And his PoA defense gives DJJ a run for his money…

[KillerLeft]

Gotta think Grimes for Hardway +2nd rounders is not an option now after seeing recent salary dumps 
pivoting to taking salary like a Hunter or Wiggins might just make more sense. And we might even get an asset or 2 out of it

I just don’t think there’s any way to get a player who’d make the players or fans feel good about losing DJJ. I’m not ready to think that way yet.

I have faith they’ll figure it out. In fact, I think they already have.

[Jym]

I just don’t think there’s any way to get a player who’d make the players or fans feel good about losing DJJ. I’m not ready to think that way yet.

I have faith they’ll figure it out. In fact, I think they already have.

using the 2025 1st rounder is more viable if they see Grimes as a long term guy we're going to re-sign
but that'd be such a bummer if he plays 10 mpg and walks at the end of the year 

maybe the Shamet angle works but Grimes or someone similar just makes way more sense

[KillerLeft]

using the 2025 1st rounder is more viable if they see Grimes as a long term guy we're going to re-sign
but that'd be such a bummer if he plays 10 mpg and walks at the end of the year 

maybe the Shamet angle works but Grimes or someone similar just makes way more sense

That's true, and while I'm usually belligerently close-minded to any mention of spending draft capital casually, in the specific case of next year's pick, I think it's safe to assume trading that won't come back to bite them. Again, if you can get two rotation players out of it, I can think of worse ways to use it. 

I just hope people don't see Grimes as an "instead of" option for Jones. That would be a mistake, imho.

[audiosway]

I just don’t think there’s any way to get a player who’d make the players or fans feel good about losing DJJ. I’m not ready to think that way yet.

I have faith they’ll figure it out. In fact, I think they already have.

I agree. I have a feeling they already have it worked out and are just waiting a couple of days to see if they can get a better deal or at least see what is out there. Nico has fully earned the benefit of the doubt. He has this all in hand.

[audiosway]

I just hope people don't see Grimes as an "instead of" option for Jones. That would be a mistake, imho.

Preach brother. Grimes is an alternative to Green. He's not an option for Jones. Jones Jr has done things this season I wasn't aware that he was capable of. He reminded me a lot of Matrix this season. His defense is next level and is only going to get better as he is now entering his prime. I have zero doubt that Nico has Jones Jr resigned. It's just a matter of details now.

[LukaMVP]

agree. playing alongside two of the best scorers on the planet pretty much covers up his offensive limitations. his stats/performance would hardly have looked this good playing on another team imho, so staying with the mavs is beneficial in long term for him as well. if he signs a long and seemingly lucrative deal (around 15m/yr) with another team he doesn't fit so well, his stats will decline and when he becomes a FA again, at the wrong side of 30, what will his next contract be? vet min again? while if he stays with the mavs, a team that will certainly win the title or even titles in the near future, he will probably get paid in the Bruce Brown scale, maybe even more considering the cap jumps in the coming years. signing DJJ is not only the best option for this team, but resigning with mavs is also the best option for himself imho.

[Mavs2021]

Honestly, what are we doing anymore in the NBA media? Did Stein really report this? This has a 0% chance of happening, right?

https://x.com/Mavs_FFL/status/1806530928426025424

I feel like we're living out the early stages of idiocracy.

They clearly asked Stein to report this to put presssure on Portland to get moving on Simons. Seriously this  has obviously been planted by the Mavs to get KCP to Orlando rolling (which weakens Denver) and to put some small pressure on whoever the Mavs are really after. This has zero chance of happening.

[Chicagojk]

Weird report by Stein. He is plugged in but I also don’t think he is as plugged in with the mavs as he once was.

Anyway, we aren’t getting KCP.

[omahen]

Weird report by Stein.  He is plugged in but I also don’t think he is as plugged in with the mavs as he once was.

Anyway, we aren’t getting KCP.

Not sure what is so weird about the report. He said there is a level of mutual interest between KCP and Mavs, but they would need Denver to cooperate (very possibly Mavs checked about that) and they said they are not willing to play along. 

I think the report is very accurate, the aggregations are problematic, again taking things a bit out of context to gain clicks.